Should Canada Be Preparing for a Destabilized USA?

[1overcosc]

I'm all in favour of Robert Borden being taken off the money. He cheated the system and rigged the 1917 election to ensure his victory. And our history books consider that justified because without it we wouldn't have had conscription. So messed up...

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I'm all in favour of Robert Borden being taken off the money. He cheated the system and rigged the 1917 election to ensure his victory. And our history books consider that justified because without it we wouldn't have had conscription. So messed up...

Most of them were/are unethical. It's why I would be happy with having no people on our currency.

Which history books justify the actions taken around this election? Isn't it more like they're just stating that this allowed for a draft to be implemented? I don't think they're justifying them given how roundly criticized his stupid promise of 500K men was. Obviously very different times compared to now.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I'm all in favour of Robert Borden being taken off the money. He cheated the system and rigged the 1917 election to ensure his victory. And our history books consider that justified because without it we wouldn't have had conscription. So messed up...

I still think it should be all Prime Ministers or leaders on our money. If I picked (bring back the $1 and $2 bills while we are at it?):

$5 - Sir Wilfrid Laurier (as it is now)
$10 - Sir John A. Macdonald (as it is now)
$20 - Jeanne Sauve (first female in a high position)
$50 - William Lyon Mackenzie King (as it is now)
$100 - Alexander Galt (first Minister of Finance)

Resurrected bills:

$1 - (not sure, but should be a Black Canadian?)
$2 - Louis Riel

[Xelebes]

$3 dollar bill - Kevin O'Leary?

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Xelebes

$3 dollar bill - Kevin O'Leary?

Maybe on the 3 cent Canadian Tire bill!

[khabibulin]

Seemed like a very inspiring, inclusive speech given by President Trump. Just wondering when the USA is going to become formally destabilized?

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by khabibulin

Seemed like a very inspiring, inclusive speech given by President Trump. Just wondering when the USA is going to become formally destabilized?

Inspiring? Did you take a hit of something before watching?

[CalgaryCheese]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Inspiring? Did you take a hit of something before watching?

I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm.

[rousseau]

The unrelieved idiocies of the incoming nightmare administration are so voluminous you just don't know where to begin. It's like choosing the best shit sandwich in a shit sandwich factory.

How about this? The voucher-supporting (that's American for "giving public tax money to private schools"), gay-conversation therapy-supporting Christian fundamentalist Trump named as his secretary of education is unaware of the apparently currently contentious issue of measuring achievement by test scores versus improvement over time.

• Video Link

It gets better. Apparently Trump's first pic for secretary of education was...Jerry Falwell Jr. of Liberty "University."

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/o...ools.html?_r=0

Jesus fucking Christ. This is the country we live next to?

[koops65]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Jesus fucking Christ. This is the country we live next to?

Sarcasm Alert

That's right! Bible thumping, red-necked, backwards-thinking morons now get to decide upon, and implement, policy in the USA.

PS. If I was an American scientist, I'd be thinking of leaving...

[geotag277]

Very telling how Franken spent about 95% of the time talking, using the opportunity to question the incoming cabinet member to instead preach about his own BS and disingenuously imply that the person he is questioning doesn't know anything when she is barely even given the chance to talk.

Pure political theater, as it always is.

To get to the point, it always seemed to me that the Federal department of education in the USA has always been a bloated mess with unclear goals and unclear accountability and unclear performance. It's main function is to give out grants, yet it seems overly concerned with regulating the minutiae of the operations of schools across the entire country without a clue in the world if each new regulation is effective at all. George Bush screwed the pooch on this one as well, and I didn't see much improvement with Obama.

I think fundamentally Devos' approach will likely not do any harm, and furthermore a philosophy of deregulating at the Federal level will allow states to retake control of their education approach.

I think what we have in Canada works quite well, and it doesn't require much of a Federal hand to dictate to the provinces what to do and how to do it.

Of course, the nuances of the situation will be lost on those who just want to shout sensationalist political theater, like rousseau above and Franken (and John Oliver no doubt).

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by geotag277

Very telling how Franken spent about 95% of the time talking, using the opportunity to question the incoming cabinet member to instead preach about his own BS and disingenuously imply that the person he is questioning doesn't know anything when she is barely even given the chance to talk.

Pure political theater, as it always is.

To get to the point, it always seemed to me that the Federal department of education in the USA has always been a bloated mess with unclear goals and unclear accountability and unclear performance. It's main function is to give out grants, yet it seems overly concerned with regulating the minutiae of the operations of schools across the entire country without a clue in the world if each new regulation is effective at all. George Bush screwed the pooch on this one as well, and I didn't see much improvement with Obama.

I think fundamentally Devos' approach will likely not do any harm, and furthermore a philosophy of deregulating at the Federal level will allow states to retake control of their education approach.

I think what we have in Canada works quite well, and it doesn't require much of a Federal hand to dictate to the provinces what to do and how to do it.

Of course, the nuances of the situation will be lost on those who just want to shout sensationalist political theater, like rousseau above and Franken (and John Oliver no doubt).

What the...WTF? Where do you get the time and inclination to do these back-flips and somersaults while juggling multiple handfulls of steaming bullshit as you craft your bizarro political narratives?

Franken asked a straightforward question about a critical component of education policy. DeVos, this presumptive leader of education in the United States, did not know what he was talking about.

Yes, he then grandstanded a bit by calling her out for her support of gay-conversion therapy. If you think that calling out someone who is going to be in charge of education at a national level for explicitly supporting something so completely and utterly idiotic and destructive as gay-conversion therapy is just "sensationalist political theatre," then I think you've sunk so far down your own indiosyncratic rabbit hole of devil's advocacy that you can't think straight anymore.

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Franken asked a straightforward question about a critical component of education policy. DeVos, this presumptive leader of education in the United States, did not know what he was talking about.

She spent about 15 seconds reacting to the question, in which Franken proceeded to spent the next 5 minutes on his soap box revealing in his political theater.

Originally Posted by rousseau

Yes, he then grandstanded a bit

Wow, I am surprised you even let this bit of rhetoric slip from your usual "it was totally 100% bedlam chaos and armeggedon.

I will note you completely ignored my criticism of the Federal Department of Education, and furthermore completely ignored my statements regarding the relative success and competitiveness that the relatively autonomous provinces of Canada have in regards to administrating their education programs.

For the record, I am wondering if you are able to name the top 5 landmark Obama administration decisions regarding the Federal Department of Education that you applaud, agree with, and furthermore have been objectively proven to raise the standards of education in the United States (without googling). Or is your criticism of the leadership of the Department of Education limited to when people who think politically differently than you happen to be in positions of power?

I think we all know the answer.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by geotag277

For the record, I am wondering if you are able to name the top 5 landmark Obama administration decisions regarding the Federal Department of Education that you applaud, agree with, and furthermore have been objectively proven to raise the standards of education in the United States (without googling). Or is your criticism of the leadership of the Department of Education limited to when people who think politically differently than you happen to be in positions of power?

I think we all know the answer.

Again, WTF?

I don't have the first clue about the policies of Obama's secretary of education, and I couldn't care less. But let's google up his/her Wikipedia page, shall we?

Okay, here we go. Arne Duncan. Past experience includes serving as the CEO of Chicago Public Schools from 2001 to 2008.

Never heard of him. Don't recall paying a single iota of attention to this person over the past eight years. Shrug. But is anyone surprised that Obama chose someone, you know, with actual policy and administrative experience in education presupposing a bare minimum of competence in the field, Obama being who he was? And is anyone really surprised that Trump (or his advisors, more likely) chose the piece of work in that video?

You don't have to be well-versed in every single field of expertise or endeavour to find certain things, like, well, the incoming secretary of education NOT...UNDERSTANDING...A...CORE...QUESTION...ABOUT...EDUCATIONAL...POLICY pretty fucking ridiculous.

Yeah, Franken was playing gotcha. He jumped on her pretty mercilessly. He was probably half-certain going in that she wouldn't know what the fuck she was talking about, and he guessed correctly. No kid gloves were employed there. But she's supposed to be the fucking secretary of education. This wasn't a vox populi interview on the street with a wino.

Funny how snow-flakey things can get in the alt-right echo chamber. Someone appointed by Trump gets shown up for being an ignorant Christian fundamentalist with dangerous ideas about homosexuality, and all of a sudden the shrinking violets come out of the woodwork to accuse her interrogators of "political theatre"?

This is going to be a depressing four years.

[csbvan]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Again, WTF?

I don't have the first clue about the policies of Obama's secretary of education, and I couldn't care less. But let's google up his/her Wikipedia page, shall we?

Okay, here we go. Arne Duncan. Past experience includes serving as the CEO of Chicago Public Schools from 2001 to 2008.

Never heard of him. Don't recall paying a single iota of attention to this person over the past eight years. Shrug. But is anyone surprised that Obama chose someone, you know, with actual policy and administrative experience in education presupposing a bare minimum of competence in the field, Obama being who he was? And is anyone really surprised that Trump (or his advisors, more likely) chose the piece of work in that video?

You don't have to be well-versed in every single field of expertise or endeavour to find certain things, like, well, the incoming secretary of education NOT...UNDERSTANDING...A...CORE...QUESTION...ABOUT...EDUCATIONAL...POLICY pretty fucking ridiculous.

Yeah, Franken was playing gotcha. He jumped on her pretty mercilessly. He was probably half-certain going in that she wouldn't know what the fuck she was talking about, and he guessed correctly. No kid gloves were employed there. But she's supposed to be the fucking secretary of education. This wasn't a vox populi interview on the street with a wino.

Funny how snow-flakey things can get in the alt-right echo chamber. Someone appointed by Trump gets shown up for being an ignorant Christian fundamentalist with dangerous ideas about homosexuality, and all of a sudden the shrinking violets come out of the woodwork to accuse her interrogators of "political theatre"?

This is going to be a depressing four years.

One of the things about this anti-intellectualism and anti-expertise push in Western democracies, and in the U.S. in particular, is that it seems massively self-defeating for people who apparently want to "make America great again".

American politics is a vacuum but it exists in the real world. When you look further afield to America's chief competitor on the world stage, China, you see a country whose system of government is an authoritarian meritocracy. You rise in the ranks by being smart, talented, hard working and honing your area of expertise. How can a newly anti-intellectual America compete against that?

[Architype]

Originally Posted by csbvan

One of the things about this anti-intellectualism and anti-expertise push in Western democracies, and in the U.S. in particular, is that it seems massively self-defeating for people who apparently want to "make America great again".

American politics is a vacuum but it exists in the real world. When you look further afield to America's chief competitor on the world stage, China, you see a country whose system of government is an authoritarian meritocracy. You rise in the ranks by being smart, talented, hard working and honing your area of expertise. How can a newly anti-intellectual America compete against that?

Maybe a post-truth plutocracy can effectively compete with an authoritarian meritocracy? We'll find out.

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Never heard of him. Don't recall paying a single iota of attention to this person over the past eight years. Shrug. But is anyone surprised that Obama chose someone, you know, with actual policy and administrative experience in education presupposing a bare minimum of competence in the field, Obama being who he was? And is anyone really surprised that Trump (or his advisors, more likely) chose the piece of work in that video?

Well, at least you are honest in your ignorance. One thing that the left is crying about lately is the lack of "political experience" in Trump's cabinet, as if that is the magical bullet to cure all America's problems. We just need more political experience! Career politicians! People who have been in the system forever!

Like this Chicago Public Schools CEO. Chicago Public Schools. The paragon of educational prowess and a shining light for American education.

Let's just forget the fact that Obama was elected with very little experience on a message of change and diametrically opposed to political insiders such as Hillary Clinton, whom he resoundingly defeated in the 2008 democratic primaries and resoundingly defeated career politician establishment Republican John McCain in the election.

No, this is 2017, political experience is all that matters.

Originally Posted by rousseau

Funny how snow-flakey things can get in the alt-right echo chamber. Someone appointed by Trump gets shown up for being an ignorant Christian fundamentalist with dangerous ideas about homosexuality, and all of a sudden the shrinking violets come out of the woodwork to accuse her interrogators of "political theatre"?

It's funny, because my impression is that political outsiders like Devos and Tillerson are very amused by the political theater. They don't need safe spaces, and they don't care about the theatrics. My impression of Devos is not that she was humiliated or embarrassed, but rather she was prepared to enter the political circus which is these confirmation hearings, fully expected guys like Franken to ask questions, let her talk for about 15 seconds, and when asked to clarify, fully expected Franken to launch into a long winded rant, instead of having an actual dialogue on the topic which would actually be pertinent to exploring this particular individual's credentials.

And we all know why he does it. Because people like you eat it up. I can already see the Buzzfeed headlines now.

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by csbvan

One of the things about this anti-intellectualism and anti-expertise push in Western democracies, and in the U.S. in particular, is that it seems massively self-defeating for people who apparently want to "make America great again".

American politics is a vacuum but it exists in the real world. When you look further afield to America's chief competitor on the world stage, China, you see a country whose system of government is an authoritarian meritocracy. You rise in the ranks by being smart, talented, hard working and honing your area of expertise. How can a newly anti-intellectual America compete against that?

I find it rather hilarious how much the left is conflating "anti-intellectualism" with "political outsiders". It is quite absurd, as I mentioned above, that Obama was largely elected as a political outsider, and much of Bernie Sanders' appeal is due to his being an independent, outside of the recognized Democratic establishment.

Yet, now that Trump got elected, largely on the same message as Obama as being a political outsider who wants to shake up the system, we have all these partisan cries of "anti intellectualism" when just 8 years ago it was "change and hope and anti-establishment".

In actuality, the anti-intellectualism is coming from lazy leftish attacks from you and rousseau, who seem to complain endlessly about figures like Devos, but are completely ignorant on the state of education, the state of policy making the department of education in the United States, and I doubt even know what the No Child Left Behind bill is and why it is so unpopular.

Rampant ignorance combined with lazy absurd attacks such as "at least in China they promote based on merit". Do you even know what school choice is and why Devos is advocating for it? Do you even know why No Child Left Behind has been seen as a toxic one size fits all education failure?

We already know the answer.

[SpongeG]

• Video Link

[Loco101]

Should Canada Be Preparing for a Destabilized USA?

YES!!!!!!!!!!!

It's so sad to see the U.S. going the way it is with Trump as President. Trump is so negative and is giving the country a bad name. He belittles and criticizes those who don't agree with him. If that continues while he is President then there will be much civil unrest and division.