Old Halifax

[resetcbu1]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I like the picture of the old baseball park where the Dartmouth Holiday Inn is now located (next to the MacDonald Bridge). Based on the description it would have been torn down in the 1960's. It appears as though it would have sat 3000 to 3500 spectators - http://www.flickr.com/photos/rdb466/...l-1997529@N23/

Wow, that's quite impressive looking (for it's time)ball park and it looks like it was a football stadium as well...... That's quite a shame as I think the holiday inn and office building could have been better suited downtown Dartmouth.. And over the years that stadium could have been extensively renovated and we wouldn't be in such dire needs for a new stadium at this point...location was amazing to boot.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by resetcbu1

Wow, that's quite impressive looking (for it's time)ball park and it looks like it was a football stadium as well...... That's quite a shame as I think the holiday inn and office building could have been better suited downtown Dartmouth.. And over the years that stadium could have been extensively renovated and we wouldn't be in such dire needs for a new stadium at this point...location was amazing to boot.

That ball park was nicknamed "Little Brooklyn" and was the home of the Dartmouth Arrows baseball team, part of the Halifax and District League, I believe. Minor league baseball was a big deal in the area back in the '40s and '50s with some local players even making it to the major leagues.

I don't know why the park was razed to make way for the Holiday Inn, but this is motivating me to do a little research on the topic.

EDIT: Did a little searching on the net and found this history lesson on the Halifax and District Baseball League. Really interesting if you're a baseball fan, or just a student of local history. The story doesn't spell it out, but I'm guessing that the field was taken down as a result of the demise of the league, after 1959.

Here's the link:
http://www.museevirtuel-virtualmuseu...&sl=4440&pos=1

[JET]

also impressive is the view of the harbour from Brightwood golf course, too bad it's not public land.

[someone123]

A bunch of new photos have gone up on the Vintage Halifax page on Facebook.

This is Sackville and Hollis. I think it was torn down in the 80's -- too bad:


King Edward Hotel, built by the North End train station and destroyed in the explosion:


Moirs factory on Argyle Street:


Sugar refinery, possibly Northwest Arm? There were a couple in the city circa 1900:


Old city market and police offices circa 1960s. Seems a lot more interesting than the boring apartment building that replaced it, and less aggressively ugly than the 1980's-era police HQ:

[Drybrain]

Losing the King Edward doens't bother me because, you know, act of god or whatever. Too bad, but no one to blame, exactly.

But I've always kind've wondered with the Sackville and Hollis area used to look like, so THAT is a mighty shame.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

But I've always kind've wondered with the Sackville and Hollis area used to look like, so THAT is a mighty shame.

The whole stretch of Hollis from about Buckingham/Duke down to Salter or Bishop was masonry buildings, mostly around 4-6 storeys. The Halifax Club for example was originally one of a row of ornate sandstone office buildings, and the Royal Bank building used to be a Victorian sandstone office as well. The blocks below Hollis toward the waterfront had a decent number of good quality buildings, like the long-gone 1830's-era granite Cunard building that I have only seen in sketches (Liverpool still has its Cunard HQ building -- http://www.rbiassets.com/GetImage.as...3212/image.jpg). The buildings were probably in rough shape by the 70's, but this would have been no different from old Montreal or Quebec's old town and if these blocks had been preserved they would have been great assets.

It's too bad Halifax's central office district didn't shift a little more than it did. The area below Barrington Street would have made a great heritage district had it been preserved in its ~1950's state, and the office towers might have worked a little better farther North. Most of the top-quality stuff like Province House, the Bank of NS, Granville, Barrington, etc. has survived, but I still think what happened was a pretty big disaster, and that people in Halifax don't really appreciate their city's history (see: Dennis Building, right next to Province House). I blame this a bit on neglect at a national level, and the fact that most of the history in the Maritimes (in particularly anything not fitting in with the rural fisher-folk image) tends to get ignored, and as a result people in Halifax and visitors/potential visitors never really appreciated what was there. Even some of Halifax's biggest attractions like Pier 21 tend to be oriented toward the rest of the country, while the city's archival materials are out in a warehouse in Burnside.

[Drybrain]

It IS too bad the financial district didn't shift somewhat--similar to the enormous number of old structures around King/Queen and Bay in Toronto that were knocked down for various 60s-era skyscrapers, or buildings in the St. Lawrence area lost for parking lots.

Halifax has enough old stuff to keep its reputation as a historic city (I know lots of people who visit and rave about the old buildings, not even realizing how much more substantive it used to be). But it's really been no better at preserving its past than any Canadian city, and I think the "knock down these rotting old things and make way for new investment" types should consider just how extensively that philosophy has already been attempted, and how badly it's failed. And consider the case of a city like Portland, ME: nearly identical in size, geography, architecture and history, but with a much more intact--and much livelier--downtown. (Though American cities tend to be a bit grander than their Canadian counterparts.)

[someone123]

I have never been to Portland ME but it is striking how different it looks from Halifax despite how close it is. I think it's a bit more like a twin of Saint John, and its economic trajectory has been almost the opposite of Halifax (part of that makes perfect sense, since the two cities were somewhat at odds as ports). The golden ages in Halifax were the war years, 1850's to 1870's, and the post-war period. Portland would have been a step down in 1860, but a step ahead in 1920. Halifax seems to have seen far more post-war development, but most of that was awful. The quality of new stuff is changing pretty quickly though, and eventually I think the city's relative openness to modern architecture (compared to the rest of Atlantic Canada and New England, which isn't saying much really) might become an asset.

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Halifax has enough old stuff to keep its reputation as a historic city (I know lots of people who visit and rave about the old buildings, not even realizing how much more substantive it used to be). But it's really been no better at preserving its past than any Canadian city

Halifax can be a pretty schizophrenic town. It's arguably both old and new as far as North American cities go, and it has a lot of historical baggage and notoriety within Canada. Maybe that's why there are so many weird debates and stereotypes that are so disconnected from the modern reality on the ground.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by someone123

I have never been to Portland ME but it is striking how different it looks from Halifax despite how close it is. I think it's a bit more like a twin of Saint John, and its economic trajectory has been almost the opposite of Halifax (part of that makes perfect sense, since the two cities were somewhat at odds as ports). The golden ages in Halifax were the war years, 1850's to 1870's, and the post-war period. Portland would have been a step down in 1860, but a step ahead in 1920. Halifax seems to have seen far more post-war development, but most of that was awful. The quality of new stuff is changing pretty quickly though, and eventually I think the city's relative openness to modern architecture (compared to the rest of Atlantic Canada and New England, which isn't saying much really) might become an asset.

Ah, yes. I don't know much of the historical or economic particulars. It certainly has more of the brick-and-stone vibe of Saint John, but I feel almost as if that's basically just like a better-preserved Halifax in some ways, with a more robust downtown. It essentially has two grand Victorian main streets, Commercial Street and Congress Street, separated by several blocks of less impressive but still quite nice old buildings. (Of course there are still chunks of unfortunate redevelopment or parking lots, but less frequently than in Halifax.)

I'd be curious to know more about the history, but my sense is just that American cities generally feel more robust than analogous Canadian ones.

Portland's east end seemed especially Halifax-y to me:A smaller version of the North End, full of similar Victorian wood-framed houses.

One advantage Halifax has is a more impressive natural features (Citadel, more parks) and what felt like a better-developed waterfront, commercially. And better universities. And Halifax is starting to generate better contemporary architecture. I can't recall seeing much decent new stuff in Portland.

[Antigonish]

I've been to Portland ME a few times. It has terrible sprawl outside of downtown. The downtown is decently preserved, but mainly because the city hasn't grown much in a number of decades.

And yes it looks VERY similar to Uptown Saint John. Much more comparable.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Antigonish

I've been to Portland ME a few times. It has terrible sprawl outside of downtown.

What city doesn't? Anyway, I'm not really interested in why it might have been better preserved (lack of growth) only the result today (better downtown. And notably, the population decline has stopped, and the city is growing again, and all those old buildings are full of businesses and people).

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I'd be curious to know more about the history, but my sense is just that American cities generally feel more robust than analogous Canadian ones.

I find that it's all over the map. One trend I have noticed is that the nicest areas in the US tend to be really nice (but very conservative and generally low-density), while the worst areas are terrible slums. These differences tend to be flattened out in Canadian cities, so the nicest parts come off looking shabby.

One weird thing about Canada is that many cities here seem to be pretty laissez-faire about planning. HRM is changing a bit but up until very recently they did almost nothing deliberate to invest in the core. Meanwhile, in the US, many cities have been falling over themselves to build entertainment districts or even subsidize retailers. There's a happy medium between these two extremes, and it consists of investing carefully in practical, truly public infrastructure like transit and streetscaping.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by someone123

I find that it's all over the map. One trend I have noticed is that the nicest areas in the US tend to be really nice (but very conservative and generally low-density), while the worst areas are terrible slums. These differences tend to be flattened out in Canadian cities, so the nicest parts come off looking shabby.

In rural areas too--I took a road-trip from Moncton down to New England this summer, and immediately after we crossed the border at Calais, into Aroostook County, Maine, everything felt a lot grimmer. Rural New Brunswick is ostensibly among the poorest parts of Canada, but it feels pretty cheerful and pleasant regardless. As soon as we entered Maine, it was dodgy as all hell. Crumbling old mansions with no electrical hookups, Dust Bowl-looking folks at the side of the road--really disconcerting. Granted, we took some weird back roads, but still.

[ILoveHalifax]

Originally Posted by someone123

I find that it's all over the map. One trend I have noticed is that the nicest areas in the US tend to be really nice (but very conservative and generally low-density), while the worst areas are terrible slums. These differences tend to be flattened out in Canadian cities, so the nicest parts come off looking shabby.

One weird thing about Canada is that many cities here seem to be pretty laissez-faire about planning. HRM is changing a bit but up until very recently they did almost nothing deliberate to invest in the core. Meanwhile, in the US, many cities have been falling over themselves to build entertainment districts or even subsidize retailers. There's a happy medium between these two extremes, and it consists of investing carefully in practical, truly public infrastructure like transit and streetscaping.

When I lived in the USA, I used to say 'This is a very rich country but I've never seen such poverty'.

[someone123]

Former locations of the dockyard clock. This clock has been in the city since 1772:


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=623336571049860

The modern tower was built in 1996 and was already falling apart. Hopefully it will be replaced with something more suitable. Maybe it would even be worth it to recreate the original dockyard building as an attraction on the waterfront.

[terrynorthend]

This video has been floating around facebook. It runs about 3 minutes, and is a rare colour home film shot by someone crossing the Macdonald Bridge, starting on North Street and ending up at Victoria Road in Dartmouth. The post says it is from 1960. Of note are the 50's cars, the trolley crossing the bridge, no traffic lights at Wyse Road/Nantucket, and the giant ESSO sign up the hill in Dartmouth.

From facebook:

Macdonald Bridge 1960 (Halifax to Dartmouth, NS)

"As we are talking about the ESSO sign on nantucket recently, and I got playing with my projector and video camera this evening, here's the silent film footage I have, circa 1960 of a trip across the Macdonald Bridge and up Nantucket. It's not perfect, as I don't have the proper facilities, but you can easily get the idea, especially the ESSO sign. The footage isn't totally silent....you hear the projector on the video. :0 enjoy. Thanks to my wife on her assistance with this." -- Scott Snailham

Credit Scott Snailham

[someone123]

Reposting from the Canada section:

Originally Posted by someone123

Some archival Halifax photos from the WWII period. Originals can be found here.









The ship off in the distance is the Queen Mary. Winston Churchill was one of the passengers -- he made a few secret visits across the Atlantic during WWII.

[ILoveHalifax]

Quite amazing, there was residential at Sackville and Lower Water. I do remember the old Irving Oil building at the foot of Sackville.
I also remember Woods on Granville. They used to do a display of live baby chicks in their window for Easter.

[Keith P.]

Is that laundry on a clothesline on the roof of the Customs House? Were there residents there?

[ILoveHalifax]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Is that laundry on a clothesline on the roof of the Customs House? Were there residents there?

Very observant, maybe a janitor lived in the building.