$14 Billion For Transit

[mr.x]

WRT station naming, it's not like Vancouver is the first city to have this.
For example, Toronto simply has an St. Clair Station and a St. Clair West Station. Problem solved. The other method is to name it after a local landmark or whatever.

now that you mention it, i guess it's not so bad....afterall, Hong Kong has "Central Station" which is the main business district where all the famous office towers are located (HSBC building, 2IFC, etc.)

Hopefully tunnel construction will get fast tracked and we can get M-Line service to Broadway-City Hall to have a transfer with Canada Line by the 2010 Olympics. It would be so nice to have that and we wouldn't necessarily need to have the Main Street M-Line station complete by then, it could be finished afterward (yet the trains run thru anyways).

i highly doubt that would happen, there's not enough time. Construction would have to start TODAY in order to meet the Olympic deadline. Even at that, it's still a huge risk - would probably be finished just days before the opening ceremony at the earliest if we started today....however, a lot of changes to the Expo Line will be coming by 2010. And the entire SkyTrain and future Canada Line will receive fare gates by then as well.

[mr.x]

It would be very very confusing to have two Main Street stations and two Broadway stations on ONE line (if we kept the current routing, this would be the case). And, given the Expo Line expansion I hope it will be a single line running from downtown to the Surrey/Langley terminus with the M-Line running from 'a newly created' Columbia transfer station/terminus to UBC, with transfers to the Expo at Commercial Station and to the Canada Line at Cambie station (the station renamed to Cambie-City Hall for the M-Line alignment).

i agree that it can be confusing. a few days ago, i overheard a mother saying to her kids how she doesn't get how the Millennium Line starts at Waterfront and ends back in Vancouver at VCC.

With regards to the Main Street and Broadway stations. You'll have: Main Street-Science World Station (Expo), Main Street-Broadway Station (M-Line), Broadway-City Hall Station (Canada Line), and Cambie-City Hall Station (M-Line).

[officedweller]

The only real problem that I could see (other than focussing capacity on one area) is if there are operational problems with having to time the M-Line trains to interline with both Evergreen and Expo lines (but that would be an issue with increased frequencies on the Evergreen Line).

Originally Posted by mr.x2

With regards to the Main Street and Broadway stations. You'll have: Main Street-Science World Station (Expo), Main Street-Broadway Station (M-Line), Broadway-City Hall Station (Canada Line), and Cambie-City Hall Station (M-Line).

I could see "Main Street - Mt Pleasant Station" and I could see Broadway City Hall Station truncated to City Hall Station (it would really be one station) or reversed (City Hall Station (Broadway) & City Hall Station (Cambie).

[Note: Broadway and Commercial only had to have separate names because Commercial Station was a terminus and calling it Broadway Station would have been ambiguous as to when/where the train terminated.]

Presumably there wouldn't be another Burrard Station on the M-Line (I've never heard it mentioned before).

Is "Falcon Station" still on the Evergreen Line agenda?
Too bad "Glen-Clark Station" became "VCC-Clark Station"!!

[Nutterbug]

All they have to do is change the recorded announcements to something along the lines of "Millenium Line to VCC-Clark via New Westminster" and "Millenium Line to Waterfront via New Westminster".

Anyone who still doesn't get it after that should go on a day long exploration riding around all over the entire system back-and-forth till they figure it out.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by deasine

Well see I sort of agree with you - to a certain extent. I would like renaming on the stations, such as Broadway to Broadway - Commercial Drive and vice versa. But I think we need BETTER signage THROUGHOUT the system. People get lost around Commercial Drive station: there are no signs for trains bound for VCC/Clark and Columbia! Automated messages have been updated, but there isn't enough! Where's the one for Columbia. They can easily have something like:

"The next station is Columbia. Transfer point to the Expo Line. Passengers to Surrey, please change here." (M-Line from Sapperton bound to Waterfront)
"The next station is Columbia. Transfer point to the Millennium Line."(E-Line train from Scott Road bound to Waterfront)
"The next station is Columbia. Transfer point to the Expo Line. Passengers to Surrey, please exit this train, then take the next train bound for King George" (M-Line train bound for VCC/Clark)
"The next station is Columbia. Transfer point to the Millennium Line. Passengers to Burnaby and Vancouver, please exit this train, then take the next train bound for VCC/Clark" (E-Line train bound for King George)

We also need automated messages AT THE STATIONS.


As for the seperation of the M-Line and E-Line. If they do a complete Columbia Station overhaul - I would agree. The current configuration is stupid if we were to do that. How about a station where there are three tracks with two platforms:

| T to Waterfront | Platform | T to VCC/Clark | Platform | T to King George |

That way, you can have people EASILY transfer for the Millennium Line train by just crossing the platform. Very effective, efficient, and HONG KONG =P

With the Canada Line adopting electronic visual displays for both inside and outside the trains, i think it's only a matter of time (short time :p) that SkyTrain will also adopt it as well - perhaps as part of this transit plan.

The Canada Line stations will also have electronic visual displays that show the time, and the arrival time of the first few trains...similar to Hong Kong and many European cities. I believe the Canada Line stations will also have train destination automatic voice announcements?

[mr.x]

just found this on Wikipedia, thought it was a bit interesting:

A survey in 1998 conducted by Canadian Facts for the Light Rapid Transit showed that:

* 61% of residents in Greater Vancouver were "more likely" to support the construction of SkyTrain rather than ground-level LRT;
* 71% said that "even though SkyTrain is more expensive to build, it is better than ground LRT";
* 69% felt that SkyTrain would have the largest impact on traffic reduction followed by either transit links (54%) rapid buses/dedicated lanes such as the ones used for the B-Line bus routes (40%) and less expensive LRT lines (32%);
* 51% said the terminus should have been at UBC, followed by Granville Street (24%) and Broadway/Commercial Station (17%);
* 63% of respondents said that SkyTrain is the best mode of transportation followed by the bus system (24%), the West Coast Express (3%) and the Seabus (1%);

The survey was released to the public eight days after former premier Glen Clark stated his preference was SkyTrain.

[Jared]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

i highly doubt that would happen, there's not enough time. Construction would have to start TODAY in order to meet the Olympic deadline. Even at that, it's still a huge risk - would probably be finished just days before the opening ceremony at the earliest if we started today....however, a lot of changes to the Expo Line will be coming by 2010. And the entire SkyTrain and future Canada Line will receive fare gates by then as well.

What changes to Expo stations are you refering to? I know Broadway, Main and Metrotown are getting facelifts, but what else is going on. It seems a bit premature to install fare gates if we might be doing major renos to all the other stations as well...

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Jared

What changes to Expo stations are you refering to? I know Broadway, Main and Metrotown are getting facelifts, but what else is going on. It seems a bit premature to install fare gates if we might be doing major renos to all the other stations as well...

Well, Translink's plans call for a complete face lift of Main Street Station in time for the 2010 Games (priority uno because of its proximity to the Olympic Village?)

And then, you have Falcon's recent announcement that fare gates would be installed onto the entire SkyTrain network as well as the Canada Line in time for 2010.

As well, Falcon said yesterday that [as part of the $14 billion plan] improvements to the Expo Line will begin next year....i don't know exactly what kind of improvements those may be.

iunno....there's too much news to absorb! *rips hair out*

[G-Slice]

Wouldn't it be awesome if they put a new station around the Home Depot between Main Street and Broadway stations, and maybe unveiled some sort of actual, quasi-comprehensive plan for the flats? I mean, by the time the UBC line even makes it to City Hall station, the area will be served by two stations, and while the train yard is important, maybe they could bury it or something? I don't know. It just seems like too valuable an area to keep as a rail yard to me.

Also, I know it's not happening, but... I want extra sidings and express service on the Expo Line. With the Surrey extension, we're looking at probably a 50 minute ride from end to end... well, I guess that's not that bad, but still!

[AKA-007]

Originally Posted by Nutterbug

All they have to do is change the recorded announcements to something along the lines of "Millenium Line to VCC-Clark via New Westminster" and "Millenium Line to Waterfront via New Westminster".

Anyone who still doesn't get it after that should go on a day long exploration riding around all over the entire system back-and-forth till they figure it out.

I think people should look at those minimaps over all of the doors on the skytrain and read the legend for the 0-0 on the map (transfer point). It would be nice though if they clarified the fact that the Millenium Line goes on an hour long city tour before going into downtown.

I can just see someone getting on an extened m-line train "to UBC" at Waterfront and not save themselves 45 minutes by transferring at Broadway-Commercial. "Oh, this train goes to UBC, how convenient!"

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by G-Slice

Wouldn't it be awesome if they put a new station around the Home Depot between Main Street and Broadway stations, and maybe unveiled some sort of actual, quasi-comprehensive plan for the flats? I mean, by the time the UBC line even makes it to City Hall station, the area will be served by two stations, and while the train yard is important, maybe they could bury it or something? I don't know. It just seems like too valuable an area to keep as a rail yard to me.

Also, I know it's not happening, but... I want extra sidings and express service on the Expo Line. With the Surrey extension, we're looking at probably a 50 minute ride from end to end... well, I guess that's not that bad, but still!

After VCC Station at the False Creek Flats, i believe there's a planned Finning Station to be located near/at Great Northern Way Campus, either elevated or tunnel. Those were from the 2002 plans....though i'm skeptical whether a station is really needed here. It does seem a bit much within such a small area.

Didn't they use to have express trains on the Expo Line? I remember being passed by packed trains while waiting for a train on the platform, with the electronic visual displays blinking "Express Train".

[deasine]

Originally Posted by G-Slice

Wouldn't it be awesome if they put a new station around the Home Depot between Main Street and Broadway stations, and maybe unveiled some sort of actual, quasi-comprehensive plan for the flats? I mean, by the time the UBC line even makes it to City Hall station, the area will be served by two stations, and while the train yard is important, maybe they could bury it or something? I don't know. It just seems like too valuable an area to keep as a rail yard to me.

Also, I know it's not happening, but... I want extra sidings and express service on the Expo Line. With the Surrey extension, we're looking at probably a 50 minute ride from end to end... well, I guess that's not that bad, but still!

I don't think it's possible to build a station at around Home Depot. I would have loved for them to build a station at Clark so that you can connect with the VCC/Clark Station. Unlike Hong Kong, Vancouver has only ONE transfer station whereas Hong Kong usually has two or even three when transferring to other lines:

[mr.x]

^ lol, with the merging of the Hong Kong KCR with the more popular MTR, that map should be about twice the size. :p

[excel]

On the front page of the sun today it says: 1.4billion for light rail to coquitlam.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by excel

On the front page of the sun today it says: 1.4billion for light rail to coquitlam.

i doubt the sun knows the full details. they must be assuming it will be light rail since that is what Translink is planning for the line.

[officedweller]

All you really need is a level section of track for a station - that may exist near the Home Depot - but demand for a station wouldn't be high enough.
The station structure would be self-supporting and not rely on the guideway for support.
Due to the steep side of the Cut, I doubt a station could be added on the Expo Line at Clark Drive (even though it is relatively level track) - it would also be very close to Broadway Station.

[mr.x]

From Gordon Price's blog:


The Right Message
January 15, 2008 | Price Tags

The most encouraging comment in response to the Province’s $14-billion transit vision comes from the Mayor of Surrey, Diane Watts:

“Once we know they (the transit projects) are coming, the municipalities can plan their land use and make sure the densities are supportive.”

And that’s what’s it all about, isn’t it? The destination, not the trip; what you build, not how you move; the place, not the road. The whole point of good transporation planning is complementary land-use and development strategies.

My criticism of Gateway was the message it sent: build around the car and truck; it’s the only realistic transport you’ll get. And when congestion occurs, we’ll build you more roads and bridges. The Province was effectively locking in another generation to car-dependent urban form - what Chris Leinberger calls ‘drivable surburban.” (More on that in the current Price Tags.)

The Province’s transit plan is already being sliced and diced by critics, particularly for its absence of interurban rail south of the Fraser and the lack of guaranteed funds now and in the future from other jurisdictions. But that misses the point: the government has captured the initiative, it has connected the dots between urban form, transportation and climate change. It has made a convincing case that we can and will build our region around transit. If we do it right, it may well turn out the much of Gateway’s road commitments was unnecessary

Importantly, there’s a substantial commitment to expanding the bus fleet, dedicating rights-of-way and quickly bringing in Rapidbus. The lessons of Curitiba have finally made it north. The Province has respected the bus as the work-horse of a good transit system, surprising those who thought it would, like most senior governments, have a rail obsession.

Sure, there will be more debate to come, particularly on local impacts and financial pressures. But more powerful will be the consensus: we have the vision, the projects are identified, we can see how local areas connect to a regional strategy. Let’s move.

For those who fear that a downturn in the economy will see commitments drop away, I suspect that will be offset by the need to respond to climate change as a society and the need for transportation choice as the cost of oil and energy bite at the personal level. In fact, I think you’ll see more projects added to the province’s list, particularly streetcars.

As a culture, we’re good at doing livable, dense, transit-supportive development. In fact, we’ve been building more of it than the supportive transit. Look at development in Port Moody, White Rock, Coquitlam, construction along the Millennium Line, and plans for station-areas on the Canada Line. Unlike most places, which build the transit first and then hope for the development, we’ve done it the other way around. Our problem has been too much success - too many people taking not enough transit. Finally, we’ll be running faster to catch up to the social change that’s already occurred.

[deasine]

Talking about people not using transit, I just met someone (same age as me [highschool]) who goes to Saint Georges and just taken his first ride on the SkyTrain -_-"

[mezzanine]

Intersting post on VALTAC's blog - Falcon had a presentation to the Langley Chamber of Commerce and provided more details for south of Fraser:

-Surrey skytrain along 104th!!!
-SRY interurban under 'personal review' by Gordo and Falcon themselves - Falcon seems not excited about the SRY :-(, though, maybe we can tie it in with hydrogen powered trains from the BC hydro plant by 88th Ave....


Link

Tuesday, January 15, 2008
My Chat with Kevin Falcon

Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon was at the Greater Langley Chamber of Commerce tonight. I had the chance to listen to his presentation and also briefly chat with him after. This is what I learned.


On the Gateway Program

There are three bids already out on the Port Mann/Highway 1 Project, and he would like to have construction started this year. He also said that nothing will stop the twinning.


On Public Transportation and Land Use

He acknowledged that land use and transportation work two-ways and communities need to be building compact communities. Kevin also said if cities want good transit, they need to be building compact communities. He then informed us that low-density areas will have a hard time getting transit money/service from the government.

He went on to say that the only way to get people out of their cars was to have quality transit. (There’s a shocker.)


On South Fraser Public Transit

* We will get 1000 buses as part of the current plan
* There will be frequent bus service to Abbotsford and Chilliwack as part of the current plan
* We will get SkyTrain to Langley City by 2030
* We will get Rapid Bus to Abbotsford and Chilliwack by 2030


On the Interurban

He told everyone at the Greater Langley Chamber of Commerce that the Premier and himself will be personally studying the Interurban line and make that study public. (Hopefully this is a real study and not a we-studied-it-and-it-doesn't-work study, but from his tone, he doesn't seem to be a fan of the Interurban.)


On the Surrey SkyTrain Expansion

It will be going on 104th Ave, not 96th Ave, as on the government’s Web site, this blog, and the newspapers. (This makes way more sense and is inline with Surrey’s original planning.)


On Rerouting Freight Trains [EDIT - these would be container trains going to Deltaport, routed around/grade separated thru Langley]

The federal government did a study and found it to be too expensive.

[nname]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Hmm. That means that riders would not like a forced transfer at Lougheed (one stop away). I'll bet there's a switch at Braid (it was a terminus for a short time). It could be the terminus for the lines.

Actually... there is no switch at Braid station. The closest switch is near Trans-Canada Highway, and it is used to go in and out of the middle track (which is currently used as a storage, and this is also where they park some of the trains overnight). The next closest switch is at the south side of Sapperton station.