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  #141  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2017, 8:40 PM
Corndogger Corndogger is offline
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
It's proposed as a head office. They won't be reporting to Seattle.
It's a marketing ploy to extort tons of concessions out of which ever city/region wants to gamble on the payoffs being bigger than the bribes. They will 100% for sure be reporting to Seattle. Bezos, etc. are not leaving Seattle.
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  #142  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2017, 8:46 PM
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Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
But in terms of recruitment etc... Canada would always be the second favoured HQ by anyone making 100K+.
Money isn't everything though. There'd be no problem finding talent willing to move to Toronto.
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  #143  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2017, 8:47 PM
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Money isn't everything though. There'd be no problem finding talent willing to move to Toronto.
I think they would when the alternative is the US and their tax structure. We already see a brain drain of our best tech workers to Seattle and Silicon Valley.

In Canada we view Toronto, rightly so, as they easiest place to convince talent to move to, but try getting Americans to go there.

The only benefit we have up north is our immigration schemes, but this is a multi-decade decision by Amazon and they aren't going to make it based off the current flavour of the month (Trump).

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Originally Posted by patm View Post
Calgary has to be the front runner out of Canadian cities.
Well this just makes no sense at all.

If Calgary was that much of a shoo-in why do they have no Amazon offices currently?

Clearly Amazon is not interested in the plethora of available office space in Calgary or their recent spate of Canadian expansion would all be there.

Amazon is currently advertising positions in the following Canadian cities:

- Vancouver: 350 positions
- Toronto: 90 positions
- Clagary: 5 positions

Kinda says it all right there.
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  #144  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2017, 8:49 PM
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I agree the Unilever/East Harbour site seems pretty much tailor made for a project like this.

Is Toronto really that "world class" when it comes to education though? U of T is definitely up there in the world university rankings, but neither York nor Ryerson come close.
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  #145  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2017, 8:49 PM
Corndogger Corndogger is offline
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Originally Posted by DrJoe View Post
Oh man the delusion is strong in some of these posts. I'd place Calgary's odds at less than 0%. I would explain but I'm sure feelings would be hurt.
Please go ahead and explain. I always find it very entertaining to read the delusional cheerleading of center of the universe Torontonians. I've yet to see one compelling reason listed here why Amazon would want to set up shop for 50K employees in Toronto. At least Calgary has some reasons. You'd probably be more hurt if another Canadian city got this than if an American city did.
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  #146  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2017, 8:52 PM
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Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
I know the homer delusion is strong on SSP, but seriously: who are you people? The idea that they'll put this thing outside of the US is far-fetched enough as it is. It makes zero business sense to choose to ship things across an international border if you don't need to. I'm no business guru, but even I know this.
Cool counterpoints bro..

Are you under the impression that Amazon HQ does all the shipping too? Or that everything they sell is made in the USA?

Again, not sure why some of y'all are so hung up on this idea of Amazon being a tech co..

Microsoft is a tech company. IBM is a tech company. Amazon is more of a direct competitor to Walmart than either of those two, especially now with their Whole Foods buy
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  #147  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2017, 8:55 PM
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Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
If Calgary was that much of a shoo-in why do they have no Amazon offices currently?

Clearly Amazon is not interested in the plethora of available office space in Calgary or their recent spate of Canadian expansion would all be there.

Amazon is currently advertising positions in the following Canadian cities:

- Vancouver: 350 positions
- Toronto: 90 positions
- Clagary: 5 positions

Kinda says it all right there.
Saving it all for the big move..
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  #148  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2017, 9:11 PM
Corndogger Corndogger is offline
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Originally Posted by osmo View Post
Houston by aggregate has more impressive Universities. Also, Rice University is one of the better private schools in the USA.

Overall, I think the list is both helpful and silly. It is helpful as it gets you thinking about certain strong and weak points. It is a silly list though as it's apples to oranges with data. Are airports crap in general with wait times? Flight access? Or, the fact that Canadian stats obviously were not really used.

Houston and Atlanta both look very attractive and have the bones to support the project, I just don't think Texas and Georgia would roll out big time subsidies for Amazon though.
"The company has a strong track record of tapping state and local governments' generosity. Amazon has been awarded 70 state and local subsidies, totaling at least $732.79 million in value, since 2000, according to nonprofit Good Jobs First. Texas leads the way with granting the most subsidy value to Amazon, followed by Kentucky, Ohio and Illinois, the group told Reuters."

Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/07/here...dquarters.html

I wonder how much Amazon is going to ask for if they actually go ahead with this project. This is what will eliminate Canadian cities from the running unless the feds step in with significant help.
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  #149  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2017, 9:20 PM
wave46 wave46 is offline
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Originally Posted by Corndogger View Post
"The company has a strong track record of tapping state and local governments' generosity. Amazon has been awarded 70 state and local subsidies, totaling at least $732.79 million in value, since 2000, according to nonprofit Good Jobs First. Texas leads the way with granting the most subsidy value to Amazon, followed by Kentucky, Ohio and Illinois, the group told Reuters."

Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/07/here...dquarters.html

I wonder how much Amazon is going to ask for if they actually go ahead with this project. This is what will eliminate Canadian cities from the running unless the feds step in with significant help.
It will be Texas by a country mile, almost no doubt.

Relatively low cost of living, generous incentives and good tax structure, with cities that are large enough to lure those in tech. Many companies have moved the HQs to the state, a recent one being Toyota.

Canadian cities won't have a chance.
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  #150  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2017, 9:33 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
But everyone keeps talking about all this office space in Calgary, and in Calgary, generally, large existing chunks of space = downtown. It's a great place to put an oil company, but maybe not the most desirable or cost-effective locale for a tech company like Amazon.



It's a cyclical business... demand for oil is far from exhausted. It may not happen for another 5, 10 or 20 years, but I think it's pretty well assured there will be another boom at some point.
Rocket Space never considered Calgary until Nenshi and a group of delegates sold them on moving here. Now they're revamping an old office building that was previously occupied by Encana. I think on the face of it Calgary seems like a long shot but I wouldn't count it out by any means if a tech company is looking to move to Canada.
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  #151  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2017, 9:39 PM
technomad technomad is offline
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Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
It will be Texas by a country mile, almost no doubt.

Relatively low cost of living, generous incentives and good tax structure, with cities that are large enough to lure those in tech. Many companies have moved the HQs to the state, a recent one being Toyota.

Canadian cities won't have a chance.
Moving to Texas (or any other state) doesn't help them if the US' sales tax exemptions for online retailers vanish.

Otherwise, yeah Texas has done a great job of attracting business. Of course over-regulated California has made it pretty easy too..
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  #152  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2017, 9:50 PM
Corndogger Corndogger is offline
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Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
It will be Texas by a country mile, almost no doubt.

Relatively low cost of living, generous incentives and good tax structure, with cities that are large enough to lure those in tech. Many companies have moved the HQs to the state, a recent one being Toyota.

Canadian cities won't have a chance.
I agree. I would give the edge to Dallas over Houston though. As long as mass transit isn't a huge determining factor Dallas should score very highly.
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  #153  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2017, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Vixx View Post

Ottawa: As I said before, Ottawa offers a very high standard of living for its residents, cost of living is reasonable, unemployment has traditionally remained low and both Carleton University and UOttawa have very strong computer science and engineering programs that have produced many individuals to go on to create great startups within Ottawa or gone on to Silicon Valley. Ottawa has arguably the strongest tech scene in the country, with most of the major players having at least some presence in the city and highlighting that, coupled with showing that the city has been able to foster and expand innovative tech companies, might get Amazon to perk their ears. Ottawa is situated in a good spot too, close to Montreal, Toronto, NYC, D.C. etc. so that would be good. However, there's two major holdbacks. One is that Ottawa is not a airport hub, being so close to Trudeau and Pearson has limited destination offerings, as well Ottawa's airport is not the largest cargo hub either, so its hard to fall back on that. Also, I think Ottawa could accommodate Amazon's expansion overtime, but where is a major question mark. Kanata is the obvious answer, however I can't think of a giant parcel of land there that could be entirely offered to Amazon, as well, Kanata is your typical boring suburbia removed from Ottawa's downtown. Not sure if this is very attractive for potential Amazon employees. Also, not sure Amazon is interested in being located in Kanata, Barrhaven, downtown etc. I think they'd prefer a centralized spot and I'm having trouble figuring out one single location where Amazon could be. Ottawa has the foundation and backbone to make it work, but lacks that extra something that others can offer.
Hurdman maybe? I don't know what kind of obstacles would be in the way of developing that area but there's certainly a ton of space there. Not to mention its immediate proximity to Hurdman station (new LRT station and Southeast Transitway terminus), Highway 417 and VIA rail station.

I think Ottawa's biggest challenge would be its limited airport destinations. Realistically though, Toronto really seems to be the only Canadian city that has a shot at this.
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  #154  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2017, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by technomad View Post
Cool counterpoints bro..

Are you under the impression that Amazon HQ does all the shipping too? Or that everything they sell is made in the USA?

Again, not sure why some of y'all are so hung up on this idea of Amazon being a tech co..

Microsoft is a tech company. IBM is a tech company. Amazon is more of a direct competitor to Walmart than either of those two, especially now with their Whole Foods buy
I made this same argument on another forum and was corrected. Amazons web services is far larger than their selling merchandise business profit and growth wise.

Last edited by patm; Sep 8, 2017 at 10:40 PM.
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  #155  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2017, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Corndogger View Post
I agree. I would give the edge to Dallas over Houston though. As long as mass transit isn't a huge determining factor Dallas should score very highly.
If it's Texas, Houston or Dallas make no sense over Austin.
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  #156  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2017, 10:39 PM
Corndogger Corndogger is offline
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Originally Posted by Barnes View Post
If it's Texas, Houston or Dallas make no sense over Austin.
Why is that? Austin has some good points about it but nowhere as many as the other two cities.
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  #157  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2017, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Corndogger View Post
Please go ahead and explain. I always find it very entertaining to read the delusional cheerleading of center of the universe Torontonians. I've yet to see one compelling reason listed here why Amazon would want to set up shop for 50K employees in Toronto. At least Calgary has some reasons. You'd probably be more hurt if another Canadian city got this than if an American city did.
I mean, it's pretty simple... Very low tech workforce, few universities, limited airport destinations, basic transit system, not a big player on the international front in any way... The "Calgary is the front runner" thing is pure boosterism and it's a bit embarassing.

Not that I'm saying my city will get it, but let's be realistic here.
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  #158  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2017, 10:50 PM
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Pure speculation on my part.
I suspect that Bezos has narrowed his targets and is playing city vs city for the best possible deal. Much like major league sports for stadiums.
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  #159  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2017, 10:53 PM
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Austin transit and traffic in the city are notoriously bad. Austin is indeed avocado heaven in the south, but, logistics wise Dallas and Houston blow it out of the water.
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  #160  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2017, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Corndogger View Post
Why is that? Austin has some good points about it but nowhere as many as the other two cities.
Whole Foods head office.

Plus, new Oracle cloud computing campus.

AMD, Intel, ARM, Nvidia, Dell HQ, Qualcom, Samsung, Silicon Labs, plus other big data/analytics companies.
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