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  #301  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2018, 8:48 AM
accord1999 accord1999 is offline
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
according to AAA, the average total cost to own a car in the US that's driven 15,000 miles per year is $8,469/year.
AAA’s Your Driving Costs found the average cost to own and operate a new vehicle in 2018 is $8,849 per year.

The typical 2nd car (and many primary cars) is not new and therefore doesn't suffer the major depreciation hit of new cars. AAA also says:
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By driving a pre-owned vehicle in good condition, ownership costs are significantly lower. A safe, reliable vehicle can be found at an attractive price point.
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  #302  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2018, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
^ riffing on the transportation cost variance issue,

by choosing to live in an urban neighborhood with great walking/bicycle/transit options, our family of four can easily get by with just one car.

the VAST majority of four-person suburban families in the US own at least 2 cars.

because we can easily forgo ownership of the 2nd car because of where we live, it adds up to real money savings.

according to AAA, the average total cost to own a car in the US that's driven 15,000 miles per year is $8,469/year.

to put that into proper persepctive for our finances, our property taxes are $8,800/year.

by not owning a 2nd car, our property taxes are basically paid for! woo-hoo!!!!!!!!!
For a new car that sounds about right. We only have one and it's a 2018. It's a nice one though not really a luxury vehicle. Our total cost is definitely in that range.
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  #303  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2018, 11:25 AM
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Yeah, OK, sounds about right for a new car, but most used cars are going to be quite a lot less than that.
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  #304  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2018, 1:05 PM
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I spend about $6,500 - $7,500 per year to operate my vehicle and that includes car payment, registration, gas, insurance and maintenance. I'm not worried about the 54 cents per mile depreciation stat. That's a gift from the IRS if you have a job where you can deduct mileage. At the end of the day, I'll have an asset that will retain some value for a trade in, or to sell on craigslist for cash, or to pass along to a kid, or donate for a tax break.

By owning a car, I am able to make a higher income than I would if I didn't have a car. It's that simple. This expense is well worth it once you factor in additional income earned, time saved, comfort and safety of operating your own vehicle.
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  #305  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2018, 1:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonesy55 View Post
That sounds like an awful lot, I'm sure you don't need to spend anything like that on a car. I drove around 12,500 miles last year and the total cost of owning/running the car for the year was around £3,400 (US$4,500), and that's over here where fuel costs like 2x as much as it does in the US.
Yeah, but what car?

I’m sure you can operate some little Vauxhall or Ford Fiesta for that, but I’d rather just take Ubers. If I’m going to buy a personal car then it needs to be at least a midsize Audi. And Steely has kids, and lives in the US, so those tiny hatchbacks aren’t even an option.
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  #306  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2018, 1:16 PM
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Originally Posted by digitallagasse View Post
In addition you have to look at the quality of the neighborhood those homes are in. I don't know Portland so I can't speak on that in this example. A decent urban neighborhood that is still affordable for a middle income household is like a rainbow unicorn with whats available today. The best chance is trying to get into a neighborhood just at the start of gentrifying and hoping it works out. If only we were building suburbs like we were a century ago.
close in portland neighborhoods are tapped out. the only thing being built are single family homes right up to the lot line, high end town houses and apartment buildings (some condos) even far out suburbs are getting pretty pricey now. the only neighborhoods left that id call affordable are probably 8 miles east or to the south in neighboring clackamas county (milwaukie, gladstone, oak grove). i live in portlands furthest south neighborhood in a townhouse and even that wasnt cheap. things just got expensive like every other low crime, high output city.
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Last edited by pdxtex; Oct 11, 2018 at 1:33 PM.
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  #307  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2018, 1:30 PM
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
Yeah, but what car?

I’m sure you can operate some little Vauxhall or Ford Fiesta for that, but I’d rather just take Ubers. If I’m going to buy a personal car then it needs to be at least a midsize Audi. And Steely has kids, and lives in the US, so those tiny hatchbacks aren’t even an option.
A 2010 Mazda 6 Sport, its plenty big enough (I also have two kids), very similar to this one, mine is a year older and with 30k more miles on it but it has built in GPS and full leather seats unlike the example here.

https://www.motors.co.uk/car-49566511/?i=5&m=sp

Nothing glamorous but it does the job fine and it's comfortable on longer trips.
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  #308  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2018, 1:45 PM
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I pay about $10,000+/yr for my car. My wife...maybe $2,000 since her car is paid off.
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  #309  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2018, 2:03 PM
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I pay about $10,000+/yr for my car. My wife...maybe $2,000 since her car is paid off.
2 more car payments left on my 7-year-old Subaru. I’m hoping it lasts me for a few years because we are about to have a baby and daycare is crazy expensive.
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  #310  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2018, 2:04 PM
chrisvfr800i chrisvfr800i is offline
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Originally Posted by Jonesy55 View Post
A 2010 Mazda 6 Sport, its plenty big enough (I also have two kids), very similar to this one, mine is a year older and with 30k more miles on it but it has built in GPS and full leather seats unlike the example here.

https://www.motors.co.uk/car-49566511/?i=5&m=sp

Nothing glamorous but it does the job fine and it's comfortable on longer trips.
I always had the feeling that cars are viewed more as an appliance in the UK & continental Europe than they are in the USA, (except for some of the statist thugs on this forum who want to take away my standard of living). It's not a knock, and obviously it's not universally true, but it seems like on our side of the water, it's more common for a car to be seen as an expression of personality. Is that a fair assessment?
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  #311  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2018, 2:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Sun Belt View Post
By owning a car, I am able to make a higher income than I would if I didn't have a car. It's that simple. This expense is well worth it once you factor in additional income earned, time saved, comfort and safety of operating your own vehicle.
having a car is a nice luxury if you can afford it, ESPECIALLY if you have children.

and we do own a car for that very reason. we certainly don't use our car on a daily basis, but it is very nice to have in certain situations for child lugging, excursions into suburban chicagoland to visit family, trips up to grandma and grandpa's house in suburban milwaukee, summer road trips, etc. and our condo came with a deeded parking spot off the alley in back of our building, so the whole parking issue is a non-issue for us.

my original point was that there's really no need for us to have a second car because of our location in a highly-walkable, bike-friendly, transit-rich urban city neighborhood, unlike middle class suburban america where one car per driver is the typical minimum.

where we live, our day-to-day mobility is not greatly compromised by my wife and i not having access to our own individual cars. i ride my bike to work most days (and have good transit alternatives for when i don't), my wife works from home most days (and can easily take transit downtown when she does head into the main office, roughly 2x/month), and our kids' preschool is a 5 minute walk away. all day-to-day shopping errands (grocery store, dry cleaners, liquor store, walgreen's, etc.) can easily be accomplished on foot within a 1/4 mile radius of our home.

out in cul-de-sac america, each driver in a household not having access to their own personal car is often a major mobility liability.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Oct 11, 2018 at 2:44 PM.
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  #312  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2018, 2:16 PM
Jonesy55 Jonesy55 is offline
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Originally Posted by chrisvfr800i View Post
I always had the feeling that cars are viewed more as an appliance in the UK & continental Europe than they are in the USA, (except for some of the statist thugs on this forum who want to take away my standard of living). It's not a knock, and obviously it's not universally true, but it seems like on our side of the water, it's more common for a car to be seen as an expression of personality. Is that a fair assessment?
It depends on the individual I guess, you do get people here who love their cars and spend big proportions of their income on something they think will make them look impressive. Personally I'm not particularly bothered what it is as long as it works properly, it's economical and it's comfortable/big enough. I'd much rather spend my money on other things so I'll spend pretty much as little as I can on a car as long as it checks those boxes.
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  #313  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2018, 2:25 PM
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Personally I'm not particularly bothered what it is as long as it works properly, it's economical and it's comfortable/big enough. I'd much rather spend my money on other things so I'll spend pretty much as little as I can on a car as long as it checks those boxes.
same.

i have too much of my father in me.

he always told me, "don't put your money in cars, put it in stocks, bonds, and real estate".

even when we lived in chicago's fancy northshore suburb of wilmette, my dad always drove rather bare-bones chevy and ford sedans.



"why would i spend 15,000 dollars more than i have to on a car, when i can put that same 15,000 dollars into an actual investment?"

- my dad (currently drives a 2013 ford focus)
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Oct 11, 2018 at 2:53 PM.
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  #314  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2018, 2:26 PM
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^ I always went basic..until now; Ford Ranger with roll up windows and a 5-speed (still have it), then a Honda Civic but upgraded to an Acura TLX and now I'm just spoiled.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisvfr800i View Post
I always had the feeling that cars are viewed more as an appliance in the UK & continental Europe than they are in the USA, (except for some of the statist thugs on this forum who want to take away my standard of living). It's not a knock, and obviously it's not universally true, but it seems like on our side of the water, it's more common for a car to be seen as an expression of personality. Is that a fair assessment?
That was my impression too. Europeans tend not to really need them as much; read Steely's post about his car in Chicago. That's more or less the case in Europe where as here, we need them and they take up a bigger presence in our lives. I was Paris 3 weeks ago and most cars were tiny little basic shitboxes that were dinged up where as here, there is more of a variety in brands and styles. Once in a while I would see a nicer car. I did see a Maybach and a Rolls-Royce Cullinan crash into one another. That was amusing.

New York (city) has a similar car culture as Europe just that you can get a lifted F-150 (because 'Merica!)
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  #315  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2018, 3:23 PM
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I'm hoping my current vehicle is my last car with an internal combustion engine. I think people in the future will look back at combustion engine car ownership as one of the biggest scams we ever endured. There are thousands of moving parts compared to a couple dozen in an EV, to say nothing of the costs of gas and general maintenance. I think this is especially difficult on youth and young families.

I grew up in a city, but when I became old enough to drive in the mid 90s, my mom remarried and moved us to the country. I needed a job the moment I got my learner's permit when I was 15 because I would have had zero social life without one. My parents never gave me a car, I had to buy one off of them for a few thousand dollars. I paid for insurance, gas, and maintenance.

The hilarious catch-22 of the situation was, my folks were pushing hard for me to get a job, but almost all of my money went toward the car. We were 20 miles out in the country with no transit and minimum wage was $5.15/hr. I think I only recently got over my bitterness about that move and it's been 20 years.

My current car has 120,000 miles on it. I've done all the major services, replaced timing belt, flushed fluids, new battery, plugs/wires, brakes, tires, etc. I've probably put $2,500 in preventative or general maintenance in the last year.

They say EVs will go 500,000 miles. The brakes are regenerative. Charging is pennies compared to gasoline. No oil changes. No timing belts. No oxygen sensors. It is not going to be good for engine mechanics in the next 5-10 years.
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  #316  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2018, 3:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
same.

i have too much of my father in me.

he always told me, "don't put your money in cars, put it in stocks, bonds, and real estate".

even when we lived in chicago's fancy northshore suburb of wilmette, my dad always drove rather bare-bones chevy and ford sedans.



"why would i spend 15,000 dollars more than i have to on a car, when i can put that same 15,000 dollars into an actual investment?"

- my dad (currently drives a 2013 ford focus)
Yep.

I could easily afford a high end luxury car, hell I could probably buy a Lamborghini if I badly wanted one. But I would never think about pouring hundreds of thousands of dollars into a damn car. I mean, what a money sink!

We owned a Audi Q7 Quattro 4.2 a few years back, definitely not a luxury sports car but still a $70-80k car. After owning it for about 5 years we traded it in for a Toyota Sienna. Expensive cars are a major money toilet. Put it into your retirement, property, or any other investment.
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  #317  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2018, 3:47 PM
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Yep.

I could easily afford a high end luxury car, hell I could probably buy a Lamborghini if I badly wanted one. But I would never think about pouring hundreds of thousands of dollars into a damn car. I mean, what a money sink!

We owned a Audi Q7 Quattro 4.2 a few years back, definitely not a luxury sports car but still a $70-80k car. After owning it for about 5 years we traded it in for a Toyota Sienna. Expensive cars are a major money toilet. Put it into your retirement, property, or any other investment.
A Toyota Sienna is an expensive car, too. They're like $32k-50k.

My younger brother bought a Ford truck for like $60k recently. I just bite my tongue.
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  #318  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2018, 3:48 PM
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It depends on the individual I guess, you do get people here who love their cars and spend big proportions of their income on something they think will make them look impressive. Personally I'm not particularly bothered what it is as long as it works properly, it's economical and it's comfortable/big enough. I'd much rather spend my money on other things so I'll spend pretty much as little as I can on a car as long as it checks those boxes.
Buying for enjoyment is understandable, but buying for image is kind of sad.
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  #319  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2018, 3:52 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post

New York (city) has a similar car culture as Europe just that you can get a lifted F-150 (because 'Merica!)
It's always jarring to see a huge F-150 or Dodge Ram in Manhattan. They generally don't have NY plates (often NJ) so I guess this gets the city slickers ranting about "bridge and tunnel"!
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  #320  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2018, 3:52 PM
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It felt weird..and awesome at the same time driving around Manhattan in my truck with Texas plates. I felt like I should have worn a cowboy hat and played up the stereotype.

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Originally Posted by subterranean View Post
A Toyota Sienna is an expensive car, too. They're like $32k-50k.

My younger brother bought a Ford truck for like $60k recently. I just bite my tongue.
Audis don't hold any kind of value and depreciate like a rock. Toyota SUV's and Ford trucks at least do. A $60k truck is for all intents and purposes, is a luxury vehicle. They are loaded with same features and options as any luxury brand. My friend has a GMC Sierra and has all the same bells and whistles as my loaded Acura. He has better cup holders...
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