Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Except that flood mitigation does work if you build it properly.

And it's obviously not smarter or cheaper to move a whole fucking city!!!

Nice post though, very constructive...

Indeed. Winnipeg's has worked quite well.

And not nearly as disastrous, but Regina experienced massive flooding in the 70s and built a system of berms along the creek that goes through the city. It's for this reason that the high water levels sometimes seen in the last 10 years haven't caused extreme problems.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Duff's ditch and the work done on Wascana Creek are decent mitigation measures. But why would you build new buildings on a known flood plain?

Brandon MB is a picture postcard for this. For years the city avoided building on the Assiniboine flood plain because of spring flooding. But a developer became mayor and forced through development in a known flooding area. Then there is major flooding and the city and province had to pay millions of dollars to put up flood mitigation measures. Something that never need to be done if they hadn't built up the area in the first place.

Oh well, I guess we figure we can keep fighting nature instead of working with it.

[Chadillaccc]

Yes, so let's stop investment in the entire downtown core (as the whole thing is on the flood plain) of the secondary business hub of the nation. Sounds... super smart.


Anywho, when I first saw the Flames arena images yesterday on SRC I was not a fan of it at all, but having read more about it and looking at it in context, it's actually pretty decent. It could use more visual appeal, but all in all 40,000 ft2 of exterior-focussed retail is a pretty amazing gain for East Victoria Park and Stampede Park. The smaller profile is what turned me off at first, but reading up on the inverted bowl, it seems like an amazing opportunity for an urban-scaled arena that will contribute to the overall vibrancy of the EVP Entertainment District and to the redevelopment of Stampede Park, without looking like an enormous/overpowering space ship in the centre of the neighbourhood. Also since the 2026 Olympic Athletes Village is proposed to go in EVP, it just makes sense.

[J.OT13]

I was able to find a few news articles on the proposed Calgary arena, but is there any complete presentation available online?

I'm a fan of these low profile NHL arenas; they seem to better integrate with the urban landscape compared to the mammoth buildings of the past 50 years. Look at Rogers Arena in Vancouver or the massive box that is the Molson Centre. Terrible.

[Chadillaccc]

I have not managed to find the full presentation yet. I imagine it's being mostly kept between the City and CSEC for now. However, I did manage to find an interior photo of the proposed arena...

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Was it already posted as to what the seating capacity was supposed to be?

[J.OT13]

Thanks for posting this new perspective.

Originally Posted by tomthumb2

One thing that's uber cool IMHO is the "projection mapping" instead of the jumbotron: http://theinvertedbowl.com/

That's the one thing that I don't quite understand how it works. Does it morph into different shapes? How does it work? how reliable would it be?

[The Fisher Account]

Originally Posted by MonctonianSentinel01

Was it already posted as to what the seating capacity was supposed to be?

Ken King has stated it will be smaller than the current Dome. Most likely in the 18k range.

There are diminishing returns on the amount of 'cheap seats' you add to an arena, so the focus is on maximizing revenue with a larger lower bowl, and smaller bowls as you move upwards.

[MonctonianSentinel01]

Ah ok right on man thanks for the info. Sounds great!

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

Ken King has stated it will be smaller than the current Dome. Most likely in the 18k range.

There are diminishing returns on the amount of 'cheap seats' you add to an arena, so the focus is on maximizing revenue with a larger lower bowl, and smaller bowls as you move upwards.

One of the selling points of the inverted bowl is that it reduces the amount of cheap seats in an arena and replaces them with multiple levels of "front row" upper level seats.

In theory, everyone remains close to the game and fully immersed in the atmosphere, whereas those sitting at the back of the upper level in a receding configuration are not.

If this arena is built according to the design photos I doubt there are going to be any cheap seats similar to those found in other arenas. The Flames will try to sell every seat at a premium because the game experience will be significantly better (or so they'll argue).

[esquire]

^ I thought Edmonton had a pretty ingenious approach to turning what are usually cheap seats in the upper bowl ends into premium-priced seating locations. They turned one of them into very pricy club sections and while capacity is lower than if they had placed regular seats in there, I'm sure it generates a lot more money the way that it's currently set up.

[SHOFEAR]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

One of the selling points of the inverted bowl is that it reduces the amount of cheap seats in an arena and replaces them with multiple levels of "front row" upper level seats.

In theory, everyone remains close to the game and fully immersed in the atmosphere, whereas those sitting at the back of the upper level in a receding configuration are not.

If this arena is built according to the design photos I doubt there are going to be any cheap seats similar to those found in other arenas. The Flames will try to sell every seat at a premium because the game experience will be significantly better (or so they'll argue).

My biggest disappointment with the Oilers new barn is the separation caused by all the seating levels. It's too spread out and atmosphere does not travel from the lower bowl to the upper bowl because of the spacious boxes and loge seating in the middle. At northlands the second bowl was basically on top of the first with boxes crammed in between. It wasn't luxurious....but it was a lot more fun.

[craner]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

CMLC (Calgary Municipal Land Corporation) released concepts of a new Calgary event centre (arena) today. Note that these concepts were provided by the Flames.

CMLC is responsible for redeveloping the Rivers district (current area where the Saddledome is).

Interesting to see that this may be one of the first examples of an inverted bowl in Canada.

So have the Flames been working on this since talks broke-off with the city about a year ago ?
I thought they were "no longer pursuing a new arena" ?

BTW - This looks pretty good IMO.

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

I have not managed to find the full presentation yet. I imagine it's being mostly kept between the City and CSEC for now. However, I did manage to find an interior photo of the proposed arena...

Not really digging it, it feels like it would be really claustrophobic inside on the lower levels.

source: https://crain-platform-cdb-prod.s3.amazonaws.com

[Hackslack]

With reduced capacity and most seats considers premium, its hard to imagine those who cant quite fit it into their budget nowadays to make it to a game will almost certainly be completely priced out of ever going to a game. Unless tickets are won or given to them.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

With reduced capacity and most seats considers premium, its hard to imagine those who cant quite fit it into their budget nowadays to make it to a game will almost certainly be completely priced out of ever going to a game. Unless tickets are won or given to them.

The irony is that walk-up tickets are typically a fair bit more expensive than season ticket per-game prices. So if you have the means to throw down 5 grand or more for a season seat, you can go for a lot less per night than the average joe who buys one game at a time.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

The irony is that walk-up tickets are typically a fair bit more expensive than season ticket per-game prices. So if you have the means to throw down 5 grand or more for a season seat, you can go for a lot less per night than the average joe who buys one game at a time.

I may be talking through my hat here but it seems that every time I've priced season tickets (or multi-game packages) vs. single game tickets there hasn't been much of a savings for buying more tickets - sometimes no savings at all.

The impression I got was that buying season tickets guaranteed you your spot in the same place (usually in the better seats), and that was about it.

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

With reduced capacity and most seats considers premium, its hard to imagine those who cant quite fit it into their budget nowadays to make it to a game will almost certainly be completely priced out of ever going to a game. Unless tickets are won or given to them.

Ticket prices are insane. This was last seasons average ticket price per team.

Toronto Maple Leafs $317
New York Rangers $257
Boston Bruins $243
Edmonton Oilers $242
Chicago Blackhawks $229
Nashville Predators $175
Calgary Flames $171
Montreal Canadiens $170
Winnipeg Jets $170
Detroit Red Wings $166
Vegas Golden Knights $162
Minnesota Wild $158
Pittsburgh Penguins $141
Tampa Bay Lightning $137
Ottawa Senators $135
Los Angeles Kings $132
Vancouver Canucks $130
Columbus Blue Jackets $126
Philadelphia Flyers $126
Carolina Hurricanes $117
New Jersey Devils $115
Washington Capitals $112
Buffalo Sabres $107
Dallas Stars $107
Florida Panthers $102
St. Louis Blues $100
New York Islanders $95
Arizona Coyotes $95
Colorado Avalanche $94
Anaheim Ducks $94
San Jose Sharks $94

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I may be talking through my hat here but it seems that every time I've priced season tickets (or multi-game packages) vs. single game tickets there hasn't been much of a savings for buying more tickets - sometimes no savings at all.

The impression I got was that buying season tickets guaranteed you your spot in the same place (usually in the better seats), and that was about it.

Maybe Winnipeg is a bit of an outlier in this regard?

I have half-season tickets for the Jets in the upper deck, one step up from the "cheap seats", such as they are.

My cost is $65.15 per ticket but walkup prices, for the very same seat, is either $131.00, $121.00, $110.00 or $103.00 depending on opponent.

This is why I rarely bought walkup tickets from the box office while I was on the waitlist for season tickets... the thought of paying such a steep premium didn't sit well with me. Most of the games I went to before signing up for a package were either via comp tickets from business contacts or purchases from friends with season tickets.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Ticket prices are insane. This was last seasons average ticket price per team.

Toronto Maple Leafs $317
New York Rangers $257
Boston Bruins $243
Edmonton Oilers $242
Chicago Blackhawks $229
Nashville Predators $175
Calgary Flames $171
Montreal Canadiens $170
Winnipeg Jets $170
Detroit Red Wings $166
Vegas Golden Knights $162
Minnesota Wild $158
Pittsburgh Penguins $141
Tampa Bay Lightning $137
Ottawa Senators $135
Los Angeles Kings $132
Vancouver Canucks $130
Columbus Blue Jackets $126
Philadelphia Flyers $126
Carolina Hurricanes $117
New Jersey Devils $115
Washington Capitals $112
Buffalo Sabres $107
Dallas Stars $107
Florida Panthers $102
St. Louis Blues $100
New York Islanders $95
Arizona Coyotes $95
Colorado Avalanche $94
Anaheim Ducks $94
San Jose Sharks $94

That is very informative, thanks for sharing that.

Toronto is staggering, and I suspect their lead here will grow if this season maintains its current trajectory. It would be interesting to know where the Leafs stand relative other major league teams in other sports.

It's hard to imagine that a second GTA team wouldn't also be near the top end of that list.