DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[Curtis Park]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Is a public media center like a library?

No. The "Public" comes from the Public in PBS. They used to be Rocky Mountain Public Broadcasting Service, (RMPBS). They are a PBS affiliate. But now they bought KUVO, which will be moving to the new studio, and changed their name to Rocky Mountain Public Media. They also own stations in, Pueblo and Grand Junction, if not a few more cities.

[Curtis Park]

I hear there is a new-er incarnation of the Rossonian redevelopment. I've been waiting for this longer than Tabor 2! Does anyone have any deets?

[CherryCreek]

Interesting article on the coming "luxury apartment" crises. Money quote:

Scan the downtowns of the nation's largest cities, and you are likely to see a staggering array of cranes.

Most of them are helping to build luxury apartment buildings. In fact, multifamily construction is now at a 40-year high; the trouble is, developers are putting up the wrong kinds of buildings. The luxury market is largely overbuilt, while there is a shortage of affordable rental housing, and developers are hamstrung by the now record-high cost of construction.

This seems as true in Denver, as elsewhere. What happens when the inevitable economic downturn hits?

I suppose this will inevitably drive down rents in the "luxury" category - whatever it cost to build them and whatever debt financed them, owners still will be motivated to fill them - at any price -to maximize cash flow.

Ultimately, this would lower rates down the food chain (theoretically) and make housing more affordable.

Will that actually happen? The current market in many ways seems unlike any that come before it that I can remember. In prior booms massive amounts of single family housing were built and the oversupply once the downtown came just led to foreclosures. We have not nearly seen that type of single family construction during this cycle.


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/16/majo...d-our-way.html

[twister244]

Originally Posted by CherryCreek

Interesting article on the coming "luxury apartment" crises. Money quote:

Scan the downtowns of the nation's largest cities, and you are likely to see a staggering array of cranes.

Most of them are helping to build luxury apartment buildings. In fact, multifamily construction is now at a 40-year high; the trouble is, developers are putting up the wrong kinds of buildings. The luxury market is largely overbuilt, while there is a shortage of affordable rental housing, and developers are hamstrung by the now record-high cost of construction.

This seems as true in Denver, as elsewhere. What happens when the inevitable economic downturn hits?

I suppose this will inevitably drive down rents in the "luxury" category - whatever it cost to build them and whatever debt financed them, owners still will be motivated to fill them - at any price -to maximize cash flow.

Ultimately, this would lower rates down the food chain (theoretically) and make housing more affordable.

Will that actually happen? The current market in many ways seems unlike any that come before it that I can remember. In prior booms massive amounts of single family housing were built and the oversupply once the downtown came just led to foreclosures. We have not nearly seen that type of single family construction during this cycle.


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/16/majo...d-our-way.html

Yeah, it does seem to be the opposite of the previous boom for sure. We definitely don't have an issue of too much for-sale housing. My thought is rents in some of these buildings will fall once things cool off. I am also wondering if any of these buildings can be converted into condos? Will be interesting to see how it unfolds...

Also, for Friday fun.... if you go to https://app.oxblue.com/open/clarkcon...erconstruction

Then click the Confluence project, go to 2/15 8:41 PM and you will see the building fully lit up. It looks sick.... I can't wait until this, along with the limited lighting they have at 11:44 is on fully. It will make for some awesome new nighttime skyline shots from the Highlands.

[corey]

I'm hoping that if there is a glut of new luxury apartment buildings that some of them will be converted to condos. That would be fantastic because there would be numerous small condos for sale in desirable locations. Units that are already built and would help fill the shortage of condos. A cool art deco apartment building I once lived in near Washington Park was converted to condominiums.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by CherryCreek

Interesting article on the coming "luxury apartment" crises. Money quote:

This seems as true in Denver, as elsewhere. What happens when the inevitable economic downturn hits?

Will that actually happen? The current market in many ways seems unlike any that come before it that I can remember.

Previously our sprawling world had builders creating tons of 'starter' home neighborhoods especially coming out of recessions. So yeah, totally, radically different. I look back a few years now and it's amazing how prescient the smart money was with their investment surge into downtowns and transit oriented development.

"Luxury" applies to all manner of living units with a 'modern' amenity package ie granite countertops etc but in reality most are of average overall quality.

Hard to read/predict but presently the cost of capital is rising so I'll conclude that those who were ahead of this trend - assuming it continues - will be good. There could be a couple of years of softer demand but that will go by fast in hindsight.

Originally Posted by twister244

I am also wondering if any of these buildings can be converted into condos? Will be interesting to see how it unfolds...

Also, for Friday fun.... if you go to https://app.oxblue.com/open/clarkcon...erconstruction

Then click the Confluence project, go to 2/15 8:41 PM and you will see the building fully lit up. It looks sick.... I can't wait until this, along with the limited lighting they have at 11:44 is on fully. It will make for some awesome new nighttime skyline shots from the Highlands.

I somehow managed to follow the instructions - very cool.

Originally Posted by corey

I'm hoping that if there is a glut of new luxury apartment buildings that some of them will be converted to condos. That would be fantastic because there would be numerous small condos for sale in desirable locations. Units that are already built and would help fill the shortage of condos. A cool art deco apartment building I once lived in near Washington Park was converted to condominiums.

Makes sense to me.

[EngiNerd]

Originally Posted by twister244

Yeah, it does seem to be the opposite of the previous boom for sure. We definitely don't have an issue of too much for-sale housing. My thought is rents in some of these buildings will fall once things cool off. I am also wondering if any of these buildings can be converted into condos? Will be interesting to see how it unfolds...

Also, for Friday fun.... if you go to https://app.oxblue.com/open/clarkcon...erconstruction

Then click the Confluence project, go to 2/15 8:41 PM and you will see the building fully lit up. It looks sick.... I can't wait until this, along with the limited lighting they have at 11:44 is on fully. It will make for some awesome new nighttime skyline shots from the Highlands.

[DenverPoke]

^^ Thanks for posting, very cool. Anyone know if the I-25 side has similar lighting?

[twister244]

Originally Posted by DenverPoke

^^ Thanks for posting, very cool. Anyone know if the I-25 side has similar lighting?

Yep! It's on the opposite side of the building from what you see in that screen grab.

[Denvergotback]

Originally Posted by twister244

Yeah, it does seem to be the opposite of the previous boom for sure. We definitely don't have an issue of too much for-sale housing. My thought is rents in some of these buildings will fall once things cool off. I am also wondering if any of these buildings can be converted into condos? Will be interesting to see how it unfolds...

Also, for Friday fun.... if you go to https://app.oxblue.com/open/clarkcon...erconstruction

Then click the Confluence project, go to 2/15 8:41 PM and you will see the building fully lit up. It looks sick.... I can't wait until this, along with the limited lighting they have at 11:44 is on fully. It will make for some awesome new nighttime skyline shots from the Highlands.

Wow that's amazing! Thanks for sharing. Do we know when they will be regularly using the lighting on the confluence as well as 1144?

We have such and exciting downtown, so why don't we have a night time lighting that matches it? Our downtown is so much more exciting than Dallas, so why can't our skyline look like Dallas at night?

https://www.google.com/search?q=down...mpAv1IIVJi9RM:

[twister244]

Originally Posted by Denvergotback

Wow that's amazing! Thanks for sharing. Do we know when they will be regularly using the lighting on the confluence as well as 1144?

We have such and exciting downtown, so why don't we have a night time lighting that matches it? Our downtown is so much more exciting than Dallas, so why can't our skyline look like Dallas at night?

https://www.google.com/search?q=down...mpAv1IIVJi9RM:

I've always wondered that myself. I lived in Minneapolis for four years where they light up their tallest buildings at night pretty well. Here's the thing too, it would be pretty easy for some work to be done on our existing tallest to light them up. For example, I would think Republic Plaza could have lights shining up the sides of the building from the ground, highlighting the granite/white stone at night. Put some lights on the top of the cash register too. I would assume owners of the building don't feel like investing in that though.

[rds70]

Submitted to the City for Concept Review today:

650 17th St - 2018PM0000101 - 650 17th Street

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by rds70

Submitted to the City for Concept Review today:

650 17th St - 2018PM0000101 - 650 17th Street

Two Tabor and this.... Smells like the end of a cycle to me (even though I hope not).

Confluence is lit, that is one great exterior lighting scheme. As far as Republic Plaza goes, even white flood lights would do that building wonders at night.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

I can't help but wonder if 650 17th, Paradise Living, and the El Jebel Tower are all contingent on Amazon coming to Denver. Hopefully not but Amazon relocating to Denver would make high-rise luxury condos much more economically viable.

[HighSt.]

Originally Posted by RyanD

Confluence is lit, that is one great exterior lighting scheme.

Agreed. A very different approach that really accentuates the unique geometry the building has.

Question though: does anyone have an inside track on why the designers/developers of the Confluence seem to have left the mechanical elements on the top of the building totally exposed from all perspectives? The architectural renderings mostly show various sorts of "toppers" that would have hid that. Also, there's metal "framing" up there that looks like the support structure for such a finishing element. Is the building actually in its final state?

[Tykendo]

Originally Posted by HighSt.

Agreed. A very different approach that really accentuates the unique geometry the building has.

Question though: does anyone have an inside track on why the designers/developers of the Confluence seem to have left the mechanical elements on the top of the building totally exposed from all perspectives? The architectural renderings mostly show various sorts of "toppers" that would have hid that. Also, there's metal "framing" up there that looks like the support structure for such a finishing element. Is the building actually in its final state?

Have thought the same thing. Why so long to get the panels in place to cover the mechanical element. Looks bad without panels.

[CastleScott]

^ I agree too and the renderings showed panels all the way to the top, however the stepped top looks kinda cool the way it came out.

Oh btw here's something on 650 17th St in today's post:
https://www.denverpost.com/2018/02/1...ry-tower-plan/

[SandSailor]

What are the chances that beauty gets built as is?????

[Sam Hill]

Originally Posted by CastleScott

Oh btw here's something on 650 17th St in today's post:
https://www.denverpost.com/2018/02/1...ry-tower-plan/

OMG, the fucking comments. Apparently the prospect of this new skyscraper is "disgusting." Every newspaper should just shut down the comments. No one in this country has an opinion anymore that isn't extreme.

[Robert.hampton]

Originally Posted by SandSailor

What are the chances that beauty gets built as is?????

http://www.greenwichrc.com/aboutus/

Sadly the development team took down their ‘completed projects’ page which, as I remember honestly was probably highlighted by renovating a three story apartment building somewhere in NYC. Now their ‘portfolio’ is only this unbuilt tower in Denver. I vaguely remember their full time jobs may have involved a strip mall in Connecticut.

The fact they describe this project as an opportunity in the midwest demonstrates how well they understand the market. It seems they come to the table with about zero credibility, zero experience, zero major financial backing, and buzz geller on their side. The el jebel tower with the Korean investors is far more likely to get built. And that says something.