Suburban Updates

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by BodomReaper

That's what happens when a municipality does its planning 10 years before rapid transit arrives, not a few years afterwards (looking at you, Vancouver...)

Pretty easy when you don't have much there to begin with. If the Evergreen line was built in 2002 as originally planned, things wouldn't be the same.

I'm happy that it is finally going through, but I'll be a monkey's uncle if that line isn't something of a white elephant for a few years, more like the M-Line than the C-Line.

[SpongeG]

Coquitlam has been preparing for the LRT since the 1980's, they even created guildford with a blvd because thats where they envisioned the train to run in from port moody

was down there yesterday its coming along nicely, that tower going up on austin and blue mountain is a big hole now lots of work going on there too

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Pretty easy when you don't have much there to begin with. If the Evergreen line was built in 2002 as originally planned, things wouldn't be the same.

I'm happy that it is finally going through, but I'll be a monkey's uncle if that line isn't something of a white elephant for a few years, more like the M-Line than the C-Line.

I feel people here misuse the term White Elephant a lot on this forum. IMO the M-Line is no White Elephant, neither is the Golden Ears Bridge or several others project labelled s such on here. We always bitch about building for the future, and when something is built with future demand, we label it a White Elephant, so funny.

A true White Elephant is a major piece of infrastructure that is useless not only when it opens, but for decades to come, and often never becomes useful.

The Evergreen Line will not be a White Elephant, it is a wise investment for the North East region of our Metro.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I feel people here misuse the term White Elephant a lot on this forum. IMO the M-Line is no White Elephant, neither is the Golden Ears Bridge or several others project labelled s such on here. We always bitch about building for the future, and when something is built with future demand, we label it a White Elephant, so funny.

A true White Elephant is a major piece of infrastructure that is useless not only when it opens, but for decades to come, and often never becomes useful.

The Evergreen Line will not be a White Elephant, it is a wise investment for the North East region of our Metro.

Totally. The Evergreen Line will serve the mushrooming north east region well.

Want a classic example of a White Elephant? Mirabel Airport in Montreal. Now THAT'S a White Elephant. Nearly everything is back at Dorval-Pierre Trudeau, except air freight, which goes out of Mirabel: a big expensive infrastructure investment serving next-to-nothing (except air freight of course)

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I feel people here misuse the term White Elephant a lot on this forum. IMO the M-Line is no White Elephant, neither is the Golden Ears Bridge or several others project labelled s such on here. We always bitch about building for the future, and when something is built with future demand, we label it a White Elephant, so funny.

A true White Elephant is a major piece of infrastructure that is useless not only when it opens, but for decades to come, and often never becomes useful.

The Evergreen Line will not be a White Elephant, it is a wise investment for the North East region of our Metro.

You don't have to feel that they misuse, they DO misuse the term. I said the same thing regarding the GEB about 6 months ago in a thread where people were labeling it a White Elephant. For something to be a white elephant, it basically needs to be infrastructure that is completely useless and/or losing so much money that it the benefits aren't felt.

None of our infrastructure in Metro-Vancouver would be close to being classified as white elephant projects. The GEB didn't meet the highly optimistic projections that were predicted, but they were just that, highly optimistic and in my opinion, extremely flawed. The bridge though is quite useful and used plenty to justify its construction not to mention all the benefits that are already being felt with it being there and those to come in the next decade or 2.

Same for the M-Line. Just look around Brentwood to see why that line isn't a white elephant and let's face it, there would be no Evergreen line without the M-Line to connect it to anyway. Development takes time. All the construction around Joyce station that you see today came decades after the Expo line was first constructed. And that was the first and main skytrain line in the region (and only one for decades) so development doesn't happen over night.

I completely agree with you, people really need to understand what "white elephant" actually means. Unfortunately I think people that use the term are often people living in areas that have little to no benefit from said infrastructure. AKA to someone living in Downtown Vancouver, the GEB doesn't help them much so to them it is a white elephant even though regionally they couldn't be further from reality.

[SpongeG]

build it and they will come, the infrastructure has to be there to get the development going and that's what we have going on with all these so called white elephant projects

[CoryHolmes]

Just look at what's going on in Central City to see the real long-term benefits of Skytrain construction. Those three stations were completed 20-odd years ago and it's taken some time but now there's millions, if not billions of dollars worth of development going on around them.

[libtard]

1 word for the pace of construction in Richmond: Relentless

Earth work and levelling has started on Sea Island next to the BCIT Aerospace campus. What exactly is going in that spot?? Outlet Mall/Movie theatre??

[dleung]

Originally Posted by CoryHolmes

Just look at what's going on in Central City to see the real long-term benefits of Skytrain construction. Those three stations were completed 20-odd years ago and it's taken some time but now there's millions, if not billions of dollars worth of development going on around them.

Then that's an example of the market driving high density development, not skytrain. IMO, evergreen is only moderately more justifiable than Toronto's subway to Vaughan.

[logan5]

I'm sure it's a combination of different things that drive high density development. Having an excellent rapid transit system, it would seem to me, would attract new residents to Metro Vancouver which in turn would create demand for new development. But it's impossible to tell if Skytrain has made our region more desirable to people outside of BC. If we had a more car oriented city with freeways criss-crossing everywhere, maybe this city would be even more desirable... who knows.

The extension up to Vaughan will cost Toronto 305 million per km, while the Evergreen Line extension will be 127 million per km, with a projected ridership (for Evergreen) of 70 000 per day in 2021. I'm not sure of the projections for the Spadina extension, but I seem to recall the numbers not being terribly high. Vancouver gets pretty good value for their transit dollar when you compare it to other cities.

I happen to like how Skytrain is shaping our Metro region, with each city having its own downtown area with dense development. And looking at how Coquitlam Center is shaping up, I think we'll see it develop as another major center like Metrotown, except Coquitlam is more scenic, and they've learned from Metrotown's mistake of having towers in the park type development.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by libtard

1 word for the pace of construction in Richmond: Relentless

Earth work and levelling has started on Sea Island next to the BCIT Aerospace campus. What exactly is going in that spot?? Outlet Mall/Movie theatre??

outlet mall - a european company's first outlet mall in north america

[easy as pie]

yeah, a nice thing about vancouver's low population is that moves toward rapid transit and related development orientation will guide regional development away from the insane sprawl that other cities have either endured or set themselves up for. whenever cma vancouver's population hits 5 million, one can pretty much be assured that most of those people will be within a short distance of an axial transit line.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by easy as pie

yeah, a nice thing about vancouver's low population is that moves toward rapid transit and related development orientation will guide regional development away from the insane sprawl that other cities have either endured or set themselves up for. whenever cma vancouver's population hits 5 million, one can pretty much be assured that most of those people will be within a short distance of an axial transit line.

rather like many European cities

[GeeCee]

CBC article about the Brentwood Mall redevelopment:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...wood-mall.html

Someone please make a thread about this project.

[CoryHolmes]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

CBC article about the Brentwood Mall redevelopment:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...wood-mall.html

Someone please make a thread about this project.

Hmm. This makes SOLO a slightly better option, given their prices... 70 storeys?! Bah, that should be Surrey's towers!!!!!

[Dave2]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

CBC article about the Brentwood Mall redevelopment:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...wood-mall.html

Someone please make a thread about this project.

Completion: Mid 2040s. It's going to be an epic thread.

[Kwik-E-Mart]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Awesome update! Thanks a lot. The transformation of Coquitlam always amazes me, it is probably the least recognized high rise development area in Metro Vancouver (maybe Canada). With all that development I don't know how it keeps flying under the radar. That Onni tower looks nice.

I still remember from my toddler days where the Coquitlam Centre area had only TWO "towers": The Frontenac (just north of the NW corner of Pinetree Way and Northern Avenue) and the commercial building above HSBC at Lougheed and Westwood.

Talking about Brentwood Mall finally coming down to make way for street-level shopping and uber high-rises, the shape of the development area (but not the scale of the towers) reminds me of the proposed Oakridge Centre redevelopment a few years back:

[Klazu]

Wow, a 70-storey tower in Brentwood would be amazing! Already now I like the area and the skyline of Brentwood when viewed from from Downtown.

[dleung]

Originally Posted by logan5

I'm sure it's a combination of different things that drive high density development. Having an excellent rapid transit system, it would seem to me, would attract new residents to Metro Vancouver which in turn would create demand for new development. But it's impossible to tell if Skytrain has made our region more desirable to people outside of BC. If we had a more car oriented city with freeways criss-crossing everywhere, maybe this city would be even more desirable... who knows.

The extension up to Vaughan will cost Toronto 305 million per km, while the Evergreen Line extension will be 127 million per km, with a projected ridership (for Evergreen) of 70 000 per day in 2021. I'm not sure of the projections for the Spadina extension, but I seem to recall the numbers not being terribly high. Vancouver gets pretty good value for their transit dollar when you compare it to other cities.

I happen to like how Skytrain is shaping our Metro region, with each city having its own downtown area with dense development. And looking at how Coquitlam Center is shaping up, I think we'll see it develop as another major center like Metrotown, except Coquitlam is more scenic, and they've learned from Metrotown's mistake of having towers in the park type development.

I was mostly playing devils advocate due to my hatred for coquitlam's urban form. ridership for spadina extension will be only 80,000 by 2018 (mostly from park and rides - torontonians do extreme commuting), so actually evergreen is vastly more justifiable

[GeeCee]

Started a thread for Brentwood here: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=201196