JUMP/Simplot World Headquarters

[City Of Trees]

Needs more Aspen.

[Cottonwood]

That lot just north of the project and west of Hotel 43 is begging for development. So is the lot south of the project on Myrtle.

[Boiseguy]

from that model, this project looks to be about as tall OR TALLER than our second tallest.. making it possibly the new second tallest

[CaliforniaKid]

I really think the Simplots should make it a priority to break the 20 floor tall barrier (for Boise). Maybe a little moving around they could add a spire in there somewhere..

Maybe not realistic, but something like this...

[CaliforniaKid]

Originally Posted by City Of Trees

Needs more Aspen.

Sorry, that is all google earth had..

[Visualize]

MAYBE not realistic? That is the Chicago Spire, which at 150 floors and 2,000 feet would be one of the tallest buildings on the planet. Scaled down it would look like an even worse, mutated, Mary Axe tower, which is still 591ft.

[CaliforniaKid]

Originally Posted by Visualize

MAYBE not realistic? That is the Chicago Spire, which at 150 floors and 2,000 feet would be one of the tallest buildings on the planet. Scaled down it would look like an even worse, mutated, Mary Axe tower, which is still 591ft.

Yes I know it is in Chicago.. But hey, something along that lines would be cool instead of a square box. Just being creative here..

[boi2socal]

Originally Posted by CaliforniaKid

Yes I know it is in Chicago.. But hey, something along that lines would be cool instead of a square box. Just being creative here..

This isn't quite a square box. The architecture is modern and I think it looks fine and I'm sure there will be an improved concept. Height isn't everything. LA has the tallest building on the West Coast, that doesn't make it the best downtown.

[Boiseguy]

Originally Posted by boi2socal

This isn't quite a square box. The architecture is modern and I think it looks fine and I'm sure there will be an improved concept. Height isn't everything. LA has the tallest building on the West Coast, that doesn't make it the best downtown.

i would agree... sf, portland, and seattle all have better vibrant cores than LA...I would venture to say that Portland's even rivals seattle.. and portland has half the height seattle has...

[Cottonwood]

Originally Posted by Boiseguy

i would agree... sf, portland, and seattle all have better vibrant cores than LA...I would venture to say that Portland's even rivals seattle.. and portland has half the height seattle has...

Which is also a good analogy for Boise. Our downtown has maybe half the height of similar sized peer cities in the region but yet our downtown is far more vibrant and happening than those other city(s).

[Boiseguy]

Originally Posted by Cottonwood

Which is also a good analogy for Boise. Our downtown has maybe half the height of similar sized peer cities in the region but yet our downtown is far more vibrant and happening than those other city(s).

agreed... the key is streetscape, and the relationship the first 2-3 levels of any developement have upon influencing pedestrian traffic, as well as gathering space and draw...
Washington DC is a very vibrant city, and there are NO skyscrapers really like other cities it's size.. and their skyline is really the national mall area and the capital building dome.
Towers make your city look and feel big, but as many have learned in a few cities, it contributes next to nothing in adding vibrancy.. Salt lake city has been this way for YEARS, as well as Bellevue washington...
They are working to create what cities like portland and boise already have...
unfortunately urban malls don't make it happen..by themselves mind you... bellevue square in bellevue wa, and riverpark square in spokane are prime examples.. they themselves didn't really contribute a damn thing... eventually both cities are now working on streetscapes in around the shopping centers... drawing people out of a shopping center is more difficult to do, when their entire purpose of being downtown in the first place is to just visit the shopping center...
dunno if that makes sense...
downtown should be the draw, and all the city has to offer, and the shopping center should be part of the experience...
if downtown is just full of office buildings and a few shopping centers, you still sit and promote car culture, and you don't get vibrancy.. the key is everything inbetween....
Personally I would be against having any large scale shopping center in a city center until it is past the critical mass point of residents living within the city center to support it... 15-20K...
if you don't have that critical mass yet.. it is crazy to even consider a large scale shopping center.. because you're forced to draw upon suburbanites to support it.... and then your city center follows suburban culture...

[City Of Trees]

Originally Posted by Boiseguy

Personally I would be against having any large scale shopping center in a city center until it is past the critical mass point of residents living within the city center to support it... 15-20K...
if you don't have that critical mass yet.. it is crazy to even consider a large scale shopping center.. because you're forced to draw upon suburbanites to support it.... and then your city center follows suburban culture...

Well, are you and everyone else here familiar about the "Mall Wars" that occurred in the Treasure Valley in the 70s and early 80s? If not, I can definitely tell the story.

[Cottonwood]

Originally Posted by City Of Trees

Well, are you and everyone else here familiar about the "Mall Wars" that occurred in the Treasure Valley in the 70s and early 80s? If not, I can definitely tell the story.

If you are referring to the pathetic mayor and city council that raped and destroyed blocks in downtown for a stupid mall that thankfully never was built in downtown then I am familier because it has been written of many times in local press outlets in the past
I wonder if anyone who was mayor or on the council back then are ashamed of themselves
So long forever Boise's one time China Town which was one of the largest in the entire Western US when it was intact

[City Of Trees]

Originally Posted by Cottonwood

If you are referring to the pathetic mayor and city council that raped and destroyed blocks in downtown for a stupid mall that thankfully never was built in downtown then I am familier because it has been written of many times in local press outlets in the past
I wonder if anyone who was mayor or on the council back then are ashamed of themselves
So long forever Boise's one time China Town which was one of the largest in the entire Western US when it was intact

That would be the story. For those not familiar, the six blocks that were nuked were where the Grove, Hotel 43, and the One Capital Center are now. We can thank Kempthorne for finally allowing that stupid idea to die and start downtown on the path it's been on now.

[Cottonwood]

Originally Posted by Boiseguy

agreed... the key is streetscape, and the relationship the first 2-3 levels of any developement have upon influencing pedestrian traffic, as well as gathering space and draw...
Washington DC is a very vibrant city, and there are NO skyscrapers really like other cities it's size.. and their skyline is really the national mall area and the capital building dome.
Towers make your city look and feel big, but as many have learned in a few cities, it contributes next to nothing in adding vibrancy.. Salt lake city has been this way for YEARS, as well as Bellevue washington...
They are working to create what cities like portland and boise already have...
unfortunately urban malls don't make it happen..by themselves mind you... bellevue square in bellevue wa, and riverpark square in spokane are prime examples.. they themselves didn't really contribute a damn thing... eventually both cities are now working on streetscapes in around the shopping centers... drawing people out of a shopping center is more difficult to do, when their entire purpose of being downtown in the first place is to just visit the shopping center...
dunno if that makes sense...
downtown should be the draw, and all the city has to offer, and the shopping center should be part of the experience...
if downtown is just full of office buildings and a few shopping centers, you still sit and promote car culture, and you don't get vibrancy.. the key is everything inbetween....
Personally I would be against having any large scale shopping center in a city center until it is past the critical mass point of residents living within the city center to support it... 15-20K...
if you don't have that critical mass yet.. it is crazy to even consider a large scale shopping center.. because you're forced to draw upon suburbanites to support it.... and then your city center follows suburban culture...

Good explanation. It is also evident that simply having a light rail in a particular downtown does not necessarily add to vibrancy either, sure it looks and seems more "big city like" but if the downtown is still a sleeper then nothing has been accomplished to create vibrancy but to offer a quicker way to shuss people out of the city center into suburbia. I think Boise will only continue to add to the vibrancy we have in downtown because new projects such as BoDo and the Simplot project even though it is huge are more to a human scale and not so huge that they take away from other areas of downtown. Instead BoDo and what this project will do is fill up parking lots with buildings and pedestrians.

[Cottonwood]

Originally Posted by City Of Trees

That would be the story. For those not familiar, the six blocks that were nuked were where the Grove, Hotel 43, and the One Capital Center are now. We can thank Kempthorne for finally allowing that stupid idea to die and start downtown on the path it's been on now.

Was the original Royal Plaza building torn down for this reason too?

[City Of Trees]

Originally Posted by Cottonwood

Was the original Royal Plaza building torn down for this reason too?

No. That building actually was still standing until the early 1990s.

[Cottonwood]

Originally Posted by City Of Trees

No. That building actually was still standing until the early 1990s.

One more question...were there buildings on the entire block behind the Record Exchange building that were torn down with the Royal?

[City Of Trees]

Originally Posted by Cottonwood

One more question...were there buildings on the entire block behind the Record Exchange building that were torn down with the Royal?

Not with the Royal, no--it was just the Royal and the Hitchcock at one point.

I'm not sure if there were buildings of significance on the rest of the block, though--I assume the southern half bordering Main Street had something on it, but I don't ever recall seeing anything there.

Here's one of my favorite old Main Street photos. Just look at all the beautiful buildings on the left that became victims of the Mall Wars...

[BOI-IDA]

Originally Posted by City Of Trees

Well, are you and everyone else here familiar about the "Mall Wars" that occurred in the Treasure Valley in the 70s and early 80s? If not, I can definitely tell the story.

Oh yeah, remember it well. That was Dick Eardley's (sp?) pet project.

Seems like they wrangled over that for years with numerous different proposals. I remember one where they planned to drop Main and Idaho Streets below grade and run beneath the proposed mall.

Ogden had a downtown mall that was torn down a few years ago. It was replaced by a suburban mall. I'm sure glad Boise never built theirs downtown. It probably would have died like Ogden's did.