National Capital Region Beer News

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

^ This is Ontario. Land of rules and protectionist regulations, always has been. I for one am not going to let the perfect be the enemy of the good and welcome this small sliver of liberalization, which, sadly enough, is actually by a big margin the biggest liberalization since the repeal of Prohibition itself.

Since the grocery stores will not be able to compete with the Beer Store on hours of service or the price of beer, I really don't see the point of these reforms at they relate to non-craft beer. Availabilty is nice, but what the Ontario market needs is COMPETITION.

[flar]

Down with the Beer Store! They didn't go far enough. The only thing the Beer Store does well is recycling, but even then, they are always pissy when I come in with 200 random bottles and cans.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Since the grocery stores will not be able to compete with the Beer Store on hours of service or the price of beer, I really don't see the point of these reforms at they relate to non-craft beer. Availabilty is nice, but what the Ontario market needs is COMPETITION.

Well, as with everything the Liberals do that's not one of their signature things, the whole point of it is get as much money as possible. Any benefits to consumers is either a side effect, or a vote getting measure.

[eemy]

They could have obviously done more, but I can understand the slow steps they are taking. Beer in grocery stores represents a real threat to the Beer Store, even with the limitations placed on their sales.

The Beer Store still holds a lot of sway here, too much really, but at least they will be forced to improve. I like the liberalization for small craft brewers too and I could see the rule about them being allowed to sell from all their locations, no matter how small, being leveraged to expand into different markets without having to negotiate with the Beer Store to do so.

Speaking of that, are growlers really that rare in Ontario? They've become one of the main ways we buy beer within my group of friends.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I for one am not going to let the perfect be the enemy of the good and welcome this small sliver of liberalization, which, sadly enough, is actually by a big margin the biggest liberalization since the repeal of Prohibition itself.

Well I'm sort of happy (I guess) for the crumbs given to the craft brewers, remember Ontario is running a deep structural deficit, so essentially we are going to borrow money to set up the "Department of Beer" bureaucracy to appease Coors Inc.

There used to be a time when Americans looked to Canada with envy at our beers... wheres as now I've read craft brews are 30% or more in sales in many American states... yet somehow we are under the thumb of Coors.

It's the astounding hypocrisy of politics which kills me here... simply buy your way into government.... the 1% just feed off us dweebs.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

Speaking of that, are growlers really that rare in Ontario? They've become one of the main ways we buy beer within my group of friends.

Seems only the craft/micro breweries are big into using growlers. I don't recall ever seeing any at The Beer Store and only occasionally at the LCBO for some specific seasonal offering.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

Well I'm sort of happy (I guess) for the crumbs given to the craft brewers, remember Ontario is running a deep structural deficit, so essentially we are going to borrow money to set up the "Department of Beer" bureaucracy to appease Coors Inc.

There used to be a time when Americans looked to Canada with envy at our beers... wheres as now I've read craft brews are 30% or more in sales in many American states... yet somehow we are under the thumb of Coors.

It's the astounding hypocrisy of politics which kills me here... simply buy your way into government.... the 1% just feed off us dweebs.

Ontario is actually now in structural surplus as of this past fiscal year (ie. revenue is greater than program spending--deficit exists because of debt servicing alone). With the sudden GDP spike in Ontario triggered by the oil crash, and the apparent success of the government in following through with their commitment for a freeze in the health & education budgets, billions will be slashed off the deficit in the coming budget.

The Beer Ombudsban's office will not be a very expensive proposition. $2M/year at most. That sounds like a lot to us, but in government scale that's basically pennies... the government's annual tax revenue is 60,000 times bigger than that. Also remember that the government will be getting $100M/year from the reforms, so this entire package will be of net benefit to the treasury.

[HighwayStar]

^^^ OK... semantics. The Province is still running a massive deficit.. and if interest rates were to creep up even a fraction, the deficit would be much worse. Ontario is ADDING to its debt with each passing minute.... so if we're running a structural surplus.. then we're borrowing money to pay interest. Nice.

I do understand the Ministry of Beer will be a trivial cost.. I was just being melodramatic

HOWEVER, the main point is.. the ONLY reason all these crazy new rules are being put in place is so that the Liberal Party can continue to receive large donations from a US Multinational corporation. It's a very fine line between "political donations" and kickbacks... and I believe this example crosses the line into the latter...

[eemy]

That's criticism is completely legitimate, but I can definitely see how this is a first step in loosening that grip on a monopoly. There are definitely concessions thrown toward the Big 3, but they are certainly still moving forward from a weaker position than they were before.

[Radster]

Any word whether Costco will be among those grocery retailers in consideration for eventually selling beer in their stores?

[1overcosc]

The membership model would probably create complications. We don't yet know if Costco will be able to participate in the beer license auction.

[1overcosc]

Given that in this province alcohol liberalization is a political taboo that has attracted intense criticism when past governments attempted it, I do not blame Wynne for starting small.

What this does, when the public realizes it does not set the world on fire, is remove the taboo associated with alcohol liberalization. It makes it politically possible for the government, whether Wynne's current government or a future government, to make more dramatic reforms in the future.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

^^^ OK... semantics. The Province is still running a massive deficit.. and if interest rates were to creep up even a fraction, the deficit would be much worse. Ontario is ADDING to its debt with each passing minute.... so if we're running a structural surplus.. then we're borrowing money to pay interest. Nice.

I do understand the Ministry of Beer will be a trivial cost.. I was just being melodramatic

HOWEVER, the main point is.. the ONLY reason all these crazy new rules are being put in place is so that the Liberal Party can continue to receive large donations from a US Multinational corporation. It's a very fine line between "political donations" and kickbacks... and I believe this example crosses the line into the latter...

Borrowing money to pay interest only is a lot better than borrowing money to pay program spending. It's a big step towards balance for the government to be able to improve the situation enough to pay for all program expenses with revenue.

If interest rates creep up, it will affect future loans, not current ones.

[canabiz]

Originally Posted by Radster

Any word whether Costco will be among those grocery retailers in consideration for eventually selling beer in their stores?

The government is still finalizing the list of grocery stores allowed to sell beer but I think Costco would/should be approved. They already sell smokes. I don't smoke but I assume their staff is trained to ask for ID/verify age of buyers.

https://www.ontario.ca/business-and-...oice-consumers

[waterloowarrior]

The government will fix the prices, grocery stores can only sell in quantities up to six packs with no pack-up pricing (discounts for multiple six-packs) allowed, grocery stores will have to purchase from the LCBO and can't receive any incentives from suppliers, grocery stores will have mandated shelving space (20%+) for smaller brewers, there will be a limit to $1 million in sales per store, stores will have "appropriate distribution" across urban Ontario... I think this will not fit into the Costco model.

[1overcosc]

It's important to note that the alcohol liberalization, for all its hype, really is just baby steps. Not much is changing. It's nonetheless huge given the political taboo associated with alcohol reform.

[Boxster]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

It's important to note that the alcohol liberalization, for all its hype, really is just baby steps. Not much is changing. It's nonetheless huge given the political taboo associated with alcohol reform.

Nothing will really change until Brewers Retail and the Beer Store close.

Allowing grocery stores to sell packs of 6 beers is somewhat of a joke IMO.

People will need to be really stuck to buy there.

Light years behind Quebec and the US.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

It's important to note that the alcohol liberalization, for all its hype, really is just baby steps. Not much is changing. It's nonetheless huge given the political taboo associated with alcohol reform.

I don't know why there's such a political taboo, when there isn't a societal one. Ontario needs to get out of the era of the Orangemen and the WCTU.

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I don't know why there's such a political taboo, when there isn't a societal one. Ontario needs to get out of the era of the Orangemen and the WCTU.

It's not about taboo. It's about preserving union jobs. If the Liberal Gov't was so concerned about choice and selection being available, they'd have not pressed so many restrictions onto the grocery stores.

I'll still buy in Quebec. Far cheaper.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by NOWINYOW

It's not about taboo. It's about preserving union jobs. If the Liberal Gov't was so concerned about choice and selection being available, they'd have not pressed so many restrictions onto the grocery stores.

I'll still buy in Quebec. Far cheaper.

I suspect that there are legal reasons for keeping the restrictions. Short of paying a big monetary settlement, which is not a real possibility in the current environment, they have no choice but to strike a deal with the Beer Store, Wine Rack etc. It will likely take some time to extract themselves from the various deals they have with the current distributors.