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  #41581  
Old Posted May 3, 2017, 5:14 PM
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MichaelRyerson MichaelRyerson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustifer View Post
Being an Indiana native, I'm always surprised that the fact James Dean was from here is not more of a big deal in my state. Oh sure, there's a small museum in Fairmount dedicated to him, and the anniversary of his death and / or birthday usually gets a small write-up in the local news.
But for the most part, and considering Indiana is generally not the mecca from which most Hollywood icons hail from, James Dean is not celebrated nearly as much as Jimmy Dean (we're big on breakfast meats here).
I always though James a bit over-emoting in his roles. That teenage angst thing got a little old after a while.

Steve McQueen was way more cool. I'm sure many will disagree with me.

I don't think I'm too far wrong in saying Dean came first and McQueen, to a large extent, was indebted to him.
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  #41582  
Old Posted May 3, 2017, 6:57 PM
oldstuff oldstuff is offline
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Originally Posted by Blaster View Post
Dancing to ragtime music?
Not just ragtime music, but specific songs such as the "turkey trot" . People were dancing too close for the morals of the time. They were doing what contemporary articles called "suggestive dancing" and several cities banned "ragging" , forbade it in dances or closed down dance halls to prevent it. It was quite divisive at the time and some people even went to jail for ragging.
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  #41583  
Old Posted May 3, 2017, 7:00 PM
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A well-known subject from Julius Shulman today. It's "Job 3963: Carl Troedson, Tower Apartments (Long Beach, Calif.), 1965". There are two shots in the set, but they're almost identical atmospheric views with the base surrounded by mist, so I picked the one showing a corner of the Villa Riviera.



Getty Research Institute

According to the International Tower Owners Association website, the tower at 660 Ocean Boulevard was completed in early 1966. It wasn't until the late-80s renovation, and removal of the original circular driveway, that the address was changed to 700 E Ocean Boulevard. The website has a whole page on the history of the tower, including construction photos. I've gone for a 1967 postcard instead.


eBay
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  #41584  
Old Posted May 3, 2017, 7:11 PM
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CityBoyDoug CityBoyDoug is offline
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Originally Posted by tovangar2 View Post
Besides rude dancing , "Ragging" was a type of up close and personal intimidation of your classmates or associates usually involving words and actions of an annoying sexual nature.

College Freshmen were ''ragged" by older students in the halls, dorms and open spaces of the campus. It was a worldwide phenomenon in the 1960s...being a part of the nascent sexual revolution at that time..

I doubt that it would have any effect in 2017 except as weird and laughable.

Last edited by CityBoyDoug; May 3, 2017 at 7:24 PM.
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  #41585  
Old Posted May 3, 2017, 7:20 PM
Martin Pal Martin Pal is offline
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I found a great article about this with some excerpts from newspapers of the time, one of which says that ragging had its origin in the Barbary Coast in San Francisco.

Ragging was used as a catch-all term for the dances done to ragtime music. The turkey trot was one of the most popular. Animal names were all the rage, it seems, others dances were: the Grizzly Bear, Bunny Hug, the Monkey Glide, Fresno Flea, Angle Worm Wiggle, Jelly Jiggle, Possum Trot, Horse Trot and the Kangaroo Dip.

(Sometimes the dances had a specific gimmick; the music for the "Grizzly Bear" dance would stop abruptly whereupon the dancers would shout, “It’s a bear!”)

Section from the article:

For several months between 1912-1913, the nation’s fabric was threatened by a new dance fad called “ragging.” President-elect Woodrow Wilson cancelled the inaugural ball to block the risk of dancing guests creating a scandal. In Patterson, New Jersey, 18 year-old Ethel Foster was sentenced to 50 days in jail for doing it. A New York City club owner named Wallace W. Sweeney perished in prison while serving nine months for “keeping a disorderly place” that allowed the dancing, while at least two men went to jail in Petaluma for disturbing the peace by doing the “rag.”

If this subject peaks your interest, the article can be found at this link:
http://santarosahistory.com/wordpres...dirty-dancing/
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  #41586  
Old Posted May 3, 2017, 8:03 PM
Tourmaline Tourmaline is offline
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Originally Posted by Martin Pal View Post

Ragging was used as a catch-all term for the dances done to ragtime music. The turkey trot was one of the most popular. Animal names were all the rage, it seems, others dances were: the Grizzly Bear, Bunny Hug, the Monkey Glide, Fresno Flea, Angle Worm Wiggle, Jelly Jiggle, Possum Trot, Horse Trot and the Kangaroo Dip.

Those names also bring to mind The Muskrat Rag, a.k.a., the "Muskat Ramble."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZAZMG4d_AY

This tune was the subject of some controversy in that it had been alleged that another song, performed by Country Joe and the Fish, notably in the Woodstock film, was vaguely similar. Those of a certain age, will no doubt be familiar with this later tune and maybe even the former one.
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  #41587  
Old Posted May 3, 2017, 8:04 PM
Martin Pal Martin Pal is offline
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Originally Posted by tovangar2 View Post

Video Link



(for a history of the logo intro, see here)


___________________________________________________________________
In 1998 Fox Entertainment Group purchased the Los Angeles Dodgers and owned the team for about six years.
In that first year, I was at what was probably the first afternoon game of the season when, as usual, the
announcer proclaimed "Your Los Angeles Dodgers!" As the team took the field and ran to their positions the
stadium shook with the the 20th Century Fox Fanfare emanating from the speakers.

The new owners found immediately this did not go over well with the fans or sports writers. It was thought
to be rude and out of place and highly corporate. After all, the storied Dodgers organization, with its eye
always on tradition and a sense of history, had been owned by the O'Malley family for such a long time.

I, on the other hand, was amused and loved it. Maybe not the Fox fanfare, but it seemed fitting to have a
team fanfare accompaniment as the players ran out onto the field. (I think the Fox fanfare is the best, by
the way!)

I'm pretty sure that was the one and only time that was ever done.

Fox continued to endear themselves to the Dodger fans by almost immediately trading our franchise player,
Mike Piazza, and, later in the year, trying to introduce a Dodger "mascot" which was immediately booed with
each and every appearance and also vanished after one game.
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  #41588  
Old Posted May 3, 2017, 8:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Martin Pal View Post



Ragging was used as a catch-all term for the dances done to ragtime music. The turkey trot was one of the most popular. Animal names were all the rage, it seems, others dances were: the Grizzly Bear, Bunny Hug, the Monkey Glide, Fresno Flea, Angle Worm Wiggle, Jelly Jiggle, Possum Trot, Horse Trot and the Kangaroo Dip.



For several months between 1912-1913, the nation’s fabric was threatened by a new dance fad called “ragging.” President-elect Woodrow Wilson cancelled the inaugural ball to block the risk of dancing guests creating a scandal. In Patterson, New Jersey, 18 year-old Ethel Foster was sentenced to 50 days in jail for doing it. A New York City club owner named Wallace W. Sweeney perished in prison while serving nine months for “keeping a disorderly place” that allowed the dancing, while at least two men went to jail in Petaluma for disturbing the peace by doing the “rag.”

If this subject peaks your interest, the article can be found at this link:
http://santarosahistory.com/wordpres...dirty-dancing/
I recall my stepfather, who was born in 1898, saying that dancing and card playing of any kind were strictly forbidden by his Kansas-Missouri parents.

The teen years in America, was the era of ''purification''....as even alcohol was banned from 1919 till 1933....the so-called Jazz Age..

Last edited by CityBoyDoug; May 4, 2017 at 12:50 AM.
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  #41589  
Old Posted May 3, 2017, 10:40 PM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
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Thank you Blaster, oldstuff. CBD, Martin Pal & Tourmaline for defining "ragging" for me. I'm really not up on the old lingo.

...and thx for that article MP. Great stuff:


santarosahistory

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Pal View Post
. (I think the Fox fanfare is the best, by the way!)
Yes! An overwhelming sense of anticipation is conjured up by that fanfare every time I hear it.

Ed Rucha loved the logo. He did many versions of it:

textarthistory

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourmaline View Post
Those names also bring to mind The Muskrat Rag, a.k.a., the "Muskat Ramble."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZAZMG4d_AY

This tune was the subject of some controversy in that it had been alleged that another song, performed by Country Joe and the Fish, notably in the Woodstock film, was vaguely similar. Those of a certain age, will no doubt be familiar with this later tune and maybe even the former one.
I love them both. I thought Country Joe was upfront about the origins of the "I Feel Like I'm Fixin' To Die Rag"
Video Link


It has great lyrics and enjoyed a bit of a revival a few years back with "Afghanistan" substituted for "Viet Nam".


.

Last edited by tovangar2; May 4, 2017 at 12:41 AM.
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  #41590  
Old Posted May 3, 2017, 10:59 PM
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odinthor odinthor is offline
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Originally Posted by oldstuff View Post
Not just ragtime music, but specific songs such as the "turkey trot" . People were dancing too close for the morals of the time. They were doing what contemporary articles called "suggestive dancing" and several cities banned "ragging" , forbade it in dances or closed down dance halls to prevent it. It was quite divisive at the time and some people even went to jail for ragging.

I have Bodewalt Lampe/Ribe Danmark's 1912 Turkey Trot in my original sheet music collection, and dutifully play it annually on Thanksgiving Day. It's enormous fun to play (I can't vouch for whether or not my listeners find it enormous fun to listen to...)!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuSXEj7kkdo
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  #41591  
Old Posted May 4, 2017, 12:57 AM
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ethereal_reality ethereal_reality is offline
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Originally Posted by tovangar2 View Post
So where were these 'raggers' congregating... in a common area of the Rex Arms or private apartments?
(the article is a bit vague)

Was the author using the term 'Society' loosely (as an euphemism) or was there an actual group?
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  #41592  
Old Posted May 4, 2017, 1:16 AM
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https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/a2430fb...3-f31fe7b65bc6


Quote:
Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire

"Goddam Florsheim shoe!" --Jake Gittes

ebay



F.Y.I We saw this same Florsheim Shoe Store about a year and a half ago, courtesy of Hoss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HossC View Post
Here's another Julius Shulman photoset with just a single picture. It's "Job 2734: Burke, Kober & Nicolais, Florsheim Shoes (Los Angeles, Calif.), 1959".


Getty Research Institute

The main clue to the location are the words "...ST SIXTH" above the entrance. A quick look through the CDs showed a branch of Florsheim Shoes at 408 W 6th Street. That's opposite Pershing Square, which explains the foliage in the foreground of the picture above. I believe this USC image is a little earlier, with Florsheim's store being just half the size.


USC Digital Library
________________________________________________________________________________________



Hmmm....does it say 'French Shriner' over the middle entrance?


1959 / detail

Last edited by ethereal_reality; May 4, 2017 at 2:25 AM.
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  #41593  
Old Posted May 4, 2017, 1:17 AM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
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Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
So where were these 'raggers' congregating... in a common area of the Rex Arms or private apartments?
(the article is a bit vague)

Was the author using the term 'Society' loosely (as an euphemism) or was there an actual group?
It seems it was at the regular Friday-night dances held by the hotel in one of their public rooms. "Society" refers to the fact that these young people were of Los Angeles' upper-classes. (There's always the fear among "polite society" that it's young people will emulate the lower classes, causing the end of civilization.)

People get the vapors over the darnedest things.
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  #41594  
Old Posted May 4, 2017, 1:46 AM
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ethereal_reality ethereal_reality is offline
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Thx t2.

I mistakenly think of the Rex Arms as a somewhat no-frills apartment building; boy am I wrong! (see below)

1913 issue of Architect and Engineer: the same year as t2's news clipping on 'ragging'.

(I don't remember if we've seen this on NLA or not)




https://misterdangerous.wordpress.co...on-apartments/

The Friday night 'ragging' parties were probably held in the ballroom, don't you think?
__



And I had all but forgotten about the rather elegant parking garage next door.

detail

Did the garage stand as long as the hotel, or was it lost when they widened the street?

(do ya'll ever get sick of my endless questions?)

Last edited by ethereal_reality; May 4, 2017 at 2:12 AM.
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  #41595  
Old Posted May 4, 2017, 4:20 AM
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e_r,

You being the one responsible for creating this amazing thread and continuing to contribute as much as you do, I don't think anyone objects to any questions you may have. I certainly don't.
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  #41596  
Old Posted May 4, 2017, 5:20 AM
Lorendoc Lorendoc is offline
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Chez Paulette

Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post



One last curious item.

detail

It's a triangular placard that appears to be advertising a coffee shop on Sunset Boulevard (I can't read the four digit street number)

The illustration is a Parisian kiosk.

__
It's an advert for Chez Paulette at 8535 3/4 Sunset Boulevard (in 1960, at least). For lots more about it, see what the late gonzo journalist John Gilmore had to say: http://www.imadeitup.info/ChezPaulettebrochure.pdf. Worth reading.
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  #41597  
Old Posted May 4, 2017, 9:38 AM
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HossC HossC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post

Hmmm....does it say 'French Shriner' over the middle entrance?


1959 / detail
According to Shoes Online:
Joseph P. French founded his shoe company in the early 1860's to manufacture the very finest footwear for the gentlemen of the 19th century.

As the United States began to recover from the tumultuous Civil War years, people were eager to return to normalcy - and luxury. They craved the quality craftsmanship that had been sacrificed during the war years.

French was joined in 1881 by Charles J. Shriner, who was himself accomplished in the shoe manufacturing business. Together they developed the quality that has become synonymous with the French Shriner name.

www.shoesonline.xyz
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  #41598  
Old Posted May 4, 2017, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
When I first saw this floor plan, I wondered where the bedrooms were. My question was answered further down the linked article:
There were no bedrooms. Look at the floor plan. They originally used Murphy-type beds in the Bryson. In the Architecture and Engineer article it says each apartment could fit four people comfortably at night.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post

And I had all but forgotten about the rather elegant parking garage next door.

detail

Did the garage stand as long as the hotel, or was it lost when they widened the street?
The Rex Arms Garage was at 951 Wilshire Boulevard. Flyingwedge showed us this view of the remodeled garage during street widening in post #31291.


USC Digital Library

This photo is dated December 1934.


USC Digital Library

The garage's 1932 alteration permit lists the architect as AC Martin.


Online Building Records

I can't see a demo permit, but it looks like the garage went before the freeway arrived. The 1948 view at Historic Aerials shows a side street where the garage used to be. I think it was called Wilshire Drive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post

(do ya'll ever get sick of my endless questions?)
Yeah - cut it out! It's not like anyone ever answers them .
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  #41599  
Old Posted May 4, 2017, 5:21 PM
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Thanks for the follow-ups Hoss....I really appreciate it.



'mystery' location

Does anyone recognize the interior of this ballroom?


https://www.facebook.com/bizarrelosa...type=3&theater

"I have no details on this photograph except the photographer was based in Santa Monica.
Maybe one of you can idenify the interior of this supper club."
-bizarrelosangeles
_________________________________________________________________________

From the looks of the corner on the left (near the arched "Exit" door) I'd say this was an older building with an updated stage area.

Do you think this could be a ballroom out on one of the piers? ...like the Avalon perhaps


__

Last edited by ethereal_reality; May 4, 2017 at 5:52 PM.
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  #41600  
Old Posted May 4, 2017, 6:10 PM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
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Rex Arms / Bryson / Rampart / Engstrum Westonia

Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
I mistakenly think of the Rex Arms as a somewhat no-frills apartment building; boy am I wrong!
The Engstrum Company's four apartment buildings were exceedingly genteel, gracious and fashionable. That the Engstrums were members of the society that these apartments aimed to serve gave the buildings instant cachet.

The Rampart was built first by the company at 603 Rampart (now the Rampart Village Lofts), on the north end of the block where the Bryson would be built. Next, each of the three officers of the company built their own building. F.O. ("Frank"), the father, put up the Rex Arms. F.E. ("Fred"), the son, the Westonia/Engstrum and Hugh W Bryson, the son-in-law, the Bryson.

Some people used the buildings as their permanent address, others as a pied-à-terre. Also, society types, when visiting from other cities, stayed for weeks or months at a time. Although the apartments themselves were somewhat small, the public and community rooms and roof gardens extended the living space. Hotel amenities also made for carefree living in these apartments. And, the same as other hotels, non-residents could hire the big public rooms for parties or balls.

As noted, there were no bedrooms:


mrdangerous


There's a couple of excellent illustrated ads for Marshall and Stearns wall beds here and here.

I noticed some MLS photos of an apartment for rent in the Rampart which show the wall cavities/closets where these beds were once installed:





zillow

Last edited by tovangar2; May 5, 2017 at 3:32 AM. Reason: correct link
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