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  #601  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2012, 7:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Alliance View Post
I think we can easily look at Related's past (disastrous) projects like MiMa to see what we should expect here.
Everyone seems to bitch about MiMa, but I don't see how it's even remotely 'disastrous'. A little boring, maybe.
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  #602  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2012, 12:35 PM
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^^^ Fine "disastrous" may not be the best word, but its the awkward massing and use of two-tone glass, oppressive base, and cheap materials that make it ugly. This design is superior (not that that is a high bar to jump) but the style of the cladding on the rendering, the awkard base, and Related's past projects, even here in Chicago with 500 NLSD (bland, cheap glass facade), it leads me to believe that this is going to be really cheaply executed.

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Originally Posted by Andrew|W View Post
I agree that this version seems to be trying to hide the curve. By not acknowledging it, I think it is going to look strangely out of place.
It would actually be more interesting if they duplicated the curve with a slightly larger cantilever in the upper portion..where the tab of bluer glass is. Just to readdress it and not forget about it. It would also provide some cool western views.
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  #603  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2012, 1:11 PM
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Originally Posted by denizen467 View Post
...
As an academic matter, I do feel like Handel is just mailing it in with the random zigzags; in fact I think SCB would have come up with something preferable to this, bored as we are of them.
While I'm not defending the monolithic nature of it, I will point out that at least some of the zig-zags appear to not be random. The lower one that spreads to the western face appears to be placed to create a sort of "outline reflection" of the building immediately to the west of it (named the Wacker-Lasalle or something like that, IIRC). The main lower cutout across the front appears to align with the setback on that neighbor, and then on the western side, it cuts to the back at what appears to be the top of that neighbor building. There doesn't appear to be any logic to the placement on the east face, though, nor to the top cutouts.
     
     
  #604  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2012, 5:09 PM
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According to this Sun-Times piece:


"Asked if Related has its financing in order, Reilly said, “They insist that they do and I understand Related is eager to get this going quickly.”


59-story apartment building in works in place of Shangri-La shell

BY DAVID ROEDER droeder@suntimes.com June 5, 2012 6:50PM
Reprints


Shangri-La it’s not, but the new 59-story apartment building proposed for 111 W. Wacker certainly beats what the site has offered Chicagoans the last four years.
http://www.suntimes.com/business/129...-la-shell.html



Anyway, my main complaints about this tower are the height and the base, which I think is pretty hideous now that I saw the bigger renderings of it.
     
     
  #605  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2012, 5:57 PM
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OK, I couldn't resist. If I were King, given what Related has come up with I would add setbacks and build it taller. I would have shown this taller but ran out of image. Of course, the developer would never agree to this loss of square footage and added height simply for aesthetics.



http://dl.dropbox.com/u/31451100/111...renderings.pdf
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Last edited by george; Jun 6, 2012 at 6:36 PM.
     
     
  #606  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2012, 6:40 PM
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Originally Posted by denizen467 View Post
As an academic matter, I do feel like Handel is just mailing it in with the random zigzags; in fact I think SCB would have come up with something preferable to this, bored as we are of them.
It's funny, everytime I see a rendering for this, I have to remind myself that it isn't SCB.....it looks like something they would churn out.

SSDD
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  #607  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2012, 6:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alliance
It would actually be more interesting if they duplicated the curve with a slightly larger cantilever in the upper portion..where the tab of bluer glass is. Just to readdress it and not forget about it. It would also provide some cool western views.
Something, anything right? Both of the redesigns (cantilever and the light-cycle track) have simply clad the existing curved section and moved on. Unfortunately the curve doesn't take up the whole facade and is very subtle as an element. By simply cladding it well...it looks like an anomaly on the building facade...like a mistake or an idea that simply never got developed.

Adding it into the upper facade and articulating the idea of that subtle curve would at least make it appear as a cohesive part of the building. Or doing something else entirely with it: shaving it off (difficult), building it out further (also difficult), or even simply cladding it with a different material finish and blending it somehow into the top.

Do you have a link for this MiMa project? I can't remember it.
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  #608  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2012, 8:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headcase View Post
It's funny, everytime I see a rendering for this, I have to remind myself that it isn't SCB.....it looks like something they would churn out.

SSDD
Why do you guys hate SCB ? The legacY, 340 on the park, Mandarin Oriental are both really nice.
     
     
  #609  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2012, 8:55 PM
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Originally Posted by BraveNewWorld View Post
The legacy and 340 on the park are both really nice.
true, but SCB also did presidential towers.

hit or miss, to say the least.
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  #610  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2012, 8:58 PM
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Originally Posted by plinko View Post
Do you have a link for this MiMa project? I can't remember it.
It's in New York and by Arquitectonica, the same people who did 375 East Wacker:
Here

I actually really like it - a very good monolithic box.

Also, George, I quite like your edited version. Bravo. It makes the zig-zags seem far less like random details to break up a glass box and more like intentional pieces of the design.
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Last edited by ChiPhi; Jun 6, 2012 at 9:16 PM.
     
     
  #611  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2012, 2:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
true, but SCB also did presidential towers.

hit or miss, to say the least.
But presidential towers is almost 30 years old. You can hardly judge a firm by the work it did that long ago. Often hardly any of the same people are even still around. Heck, try to compare SOM's work of the 1980s (or 60s or 70s) to the work they do today; some design tendencies are still there, but for the most part there is no comparison.

This is the first I have noticed the small setbacks that occur each time the zig-zag cuts horizontally across a facade. I like those.
     
     
  #612  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2012, 5:42 AM
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Originally Posted by headcase View Post
It's funny, everytime I see a rendering for this, I have to remind myself that it isn't SCB.....it looks like something they would churn out.
It's somewhat close to SCB style but I see clear differences. First, they rarely do monolithic stuff now; I think Legacy was the only one in the last decade, and it was along the lake and the openness of Grant Park. 111 is far from the lake, park, and faces north, so there's not much to reflect. Excluding Legacy, they are into patterns lately (which people can hate or like) that break up the mass. Second, there is usually rhyme or reason to their facades, and 111 has pretty random cutouts (other than the one at the setback, which does make sense). Anyway, it's all academic now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew|W View Post
This is the first I have noticed the small setbacks that occur each time the zig-zag cuts horizontally across a facade. I like those.
George, maybe it would be a good idea to more clearly label "doctored" renders as such with ALL CAPS or something...
     
     
  #613  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2012, 6:21 AM
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Originally Posted by george View Post
OK, I couldn't resist. If I were King, given what Related has come up with I would add setbacks and build it taller. I would have shown this taller but ran out of image. Of course, the developer would never agree to this loss of square footage and added height simply for aesthetics.



http://dl.dropbox.com/u/31451100/111...renderings.pdf
Now this right here looks way much more interesting than the box! I wonder if this rendering was emailed to their firm with a compelling argument and enough public support, would they look into making this change a realistic proposal....
     
     
  #614  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2012, 10:49 AM
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Thanks ChiPhi & denizen. You're right, I'll try this again.

Here's a compare & contrast of 111 W. Wacker with the original rendering on the left and my fantasy, doctored rendering is on the right. I feel the added setbacks and added height create more interest and better respect the neighboring Wacker-LaSalle building directly to the west.



http://dl.dropbox.com/u/31451100/111...renderings.pdf
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Last edited by george; Jun 7, 2012 at 11:39 AM.
     
     
  #615  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2012, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denizen467 View Post
George, maybe it would be a good idea to more clearly label "doctored" renders as such with ALL CAPS or something...
Oops...I guess I don't have enough time in my life to read this forum carefully. I wondered why I was just noticing this.

George, maybe we should hire you to design this building. Do you want to try your hand at tweaking the base too?
     
     
  #616  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2012, 2:28 PM
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Design of base/front entrance

One aspect of this design I'm firmly negative on is the base, fronting Wacker. I just don't find it aesthetically pleasing at all. I'm not sure what Handel was going for with this, I'm just really hoping what we see doesn't turn out to be final, because it just looks kind of......clumsy......very disconnected from the aesthetic of the overall tower........it needs to be simpler, and more minimalist than this pastiche. As of now, it reminds (although clearly here in a different style) me of those god-awful attempts by some developer/architects where they just tack-on a couple stories of stone panels/precast onto a residential high-rise base that doesn't relate at all to, and takes away from, whatever the quality of design of the tower above....
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  #617  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2012, 3:58 PM
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It looks like it was designed to communicate different things from different scales. From a distance, it’s a fairly buttoned down, tastefully modern part of Chicago’s skyline. The lobby, ground level, on the other hand, is meant to convey a feeling of almost gaudy opulence, particularly with that odd gold filigree pattern they’ve attached to it. Nothing wrong with that, of course—this is a tall and expensive building, of course—but it does seem lifted from another skyscraper.

I’m sure there’s a way to communicate the building’s upscale character more in keeping with the rest of the building’s aesthetic, but it would have to be through more subtle cues like the really well-thought-out proportions and fine materials—maybe they think those aren’t eye-catching enough for the man on the street.
     
     
  #618  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2012, 6:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by george View Post
OK, I couldn't resist. If I were King, given what Related has come up with I would add setbacks and build it taller. I would have shown this taller but ran out of image. Of course, the developer would never agree to this loss of square footage and added height simply for aesthetics.



http://dl.dropbox.com/u/31451100/111...renderings.pdf

Nice work! I love how the setbacks relate to that art deco building in the background (sorry, don't know the name of that one).
     
     
  #619  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2012, 6:54 PM
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Maybe we should have everyone make their own design like George did, then we can pick the best one and do what we can to get related to notice it.
     
     
  #620  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2012, 7:28 PM
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Parking Spaces

I'm well aware that this will no longer be a condo building, just wondering if anyone has anyone heard if Related will be selling any of the parking spaces in the structure?
     
     
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