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  #13581  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2011, 11:16 PM
Rizzo Rizzo is offline
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The canopy is a problem. The unification of the facade elements and masses helps to reinforce this thing as a huge beast...taking on a suburban language. It's very coarse grain for a neighborhood building, but then again, so is Parkside Oldtown.

So I really don't know what people think of the area, should we improve what's going up along Division or just stick with the status quo?

Wilson yards is still fairly coarse grain, but the liner retail and apartment building tend to be more convincing as if the complex is made up of separate buildings.
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  #13582  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2011, 11:50 PM
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I think a big box is pretty coarse grain no matter how you tart it up. At least it's reasonably attractive, modern, and the parking is stacked below.

As always, the solution already exists. Look at Field's on State... similar footprint, but it's activated by numerous entrances, continuous storefront, and tenant retailers like Starbucks and Sarah's.
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  #13583  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2011, 12:24 AM
Rizzo Rizzo is offline
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
I think a big box is pretty coarse grain no matter how you tart it up. At least it's reasonably attractive, modern, and the parking is stacked below.

As always, the solution already exists. Look at Field's on State... similar footprint, but it's activated by numerous entrances, continuous storefront, and tenant retailers like Starbucks and Sarah's.
But the beauty of fields is how the columns, pillasters and windows break up that huge facade. But modern buildings today are more about large simple volumetric gestures or textures rather than fenestration and small detailing
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  #13584  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2011, 1:52 PM
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Window displays are just no longer part of retailing. Even Carson's had given up on the Madison and Monroe windows by the end. A look at any downtown CVS or Walgreens will demonstrate the futility of requiring street-level windows; the drugstores just back displays up to them. So even if you required Target to build a replica of Field's, the windows would be painted blind and the façade would be obscured part of the year by gardening needs and rows of red shopping carts.
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  #13585  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2011, 2:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Hayward View Post
So I really don't know what people think of the area, should we improve what's going up along Division or just stick with the status quo?
Remember, we're talking about the redevelopment of a massive superblock planned development --- in that light, Parkside and the Target are, actually, shrinking the scale of development into a finer scale, even if they are still very "coarse grain" compared to other parts of the city.

A more pressing priority would be to preserve existing small-lot urban fabric elsewhere in the city, and restrict the creation of new large-lot planned developments.
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  #13586  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2011, 5:46 PM
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Window displays are just no longer part of retailing. Even Carson's had given up on the Madison and Monroe windows by the end. A look at any downtown CVS or Walgreens will demonstrate the futility of requiring street-level windows; the drugstores just back displays up to them. So even if you required Target to build a replica of Field's, the windows would be painted blind and the façade would be obscured part of the year by gardening needs and rows of red shopping carts.
I've noticed Walgreens has modified some of the blind windows to be vision glass, and you see into an aisle of merchandise. Some stores will add an extra skid instead of having product along the perimeter, which provides direct views to the outside. Can't say whether you are gaining or losing square footage of product, but you do improve natural daylight into the store.

No store needs to provide pleasant window displays, just being able to see inside the store, and getting some natural daylight in there helps improve the shopping experience.

BTW, the Fields reference is to the successful division of a large facade, not necessarily window openings on ground level, though that was my original question. My concern was the large expanses of metal panel or precast.

For stores like CVS and Walgreens, the criticism of those blind windows does not fall on deaf ears. There's been some noticeable improvements on their new and renovated stores.
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  #13587  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2011, 2:22 AM
untitledreality untitledreality is offline
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Originally Posted by VivaLFuego View Post
and restrict the creation of new large-lot planned developments.
It does seem absurd that a sole Target takes up as much ground space as the Sears Tower... and nearly as much as the United Center. In my mind, creating restrictions that force Big Box retailers to go vertical in the city would be a very very good thing.
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  #13588  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2011, 3:23 AM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
The stair towers are flush with the sidewalk, but the main facade pulls back, forming recesses that are flowerbeds. Unifying the whole thing is a long canopy with movie-theatre-style ad posters below.
I hope the Target is setback from the property line to allow for a wide sidewalk --- Division is a wide, high-speed street at that point and any sidewalk less than ~12 feet in width would be quite unpleasant.
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  #13589  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2011, 7:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Hayward View Post
I've noticed Walgreens has modified some of the blind windows to be vision glass, and you see into an aisle of merchandise. Some stores will add an extra skid instead of having product along the perimeter, which provides direct views to the outside. Can't say whether you are gaining or losing square footage of product, but you do improve natural daylight into the store.
The new Andersonville Walgreens at Clark & Catalpa has a full glass facade along the Clark sidewalk. The north side, facing the parking lot, is basically a blank wall though. I believe State & Washington and Michigan & Washington have been done in a similar way, with renovated interiors that are cleaner and sleeker compared to the stale, dowdy previous generation of Walgreens stock interiors. And that's another benefit of having a glass wall along a retailer's sidewalk frontage: It forces them to think about making the interior visually appealing, too.
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  #13590  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2011, 2:17 PM
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Originally Posted by VivaLFuego View Post
I hope the Target is setback from the property line to allow for a wide sidewalk --- Division is a wide, high-speed street at that point and any sidewalk less than ~12 feet in width would be quite unpleasant.
It's not. 7.8' on Division, 13.1' on Larrabee.

The PD was pulled from the web, which may indicate design changes, though (I happened to have an old version saved). Plus, the building DOES have a ~4' setback along Division that's filled with planters. If pedestrian traffic ever becomes an issue, the planters can simply be cut back to the wall of the fire stairs.

I do think it's at best disingenuous for Target to claim that most customers will arrive on foot or by CTA, but then build a sliver sidewalk. They did the same thing at Clark/Roosevelt on the Clark side. I guess since you can enter from the north through the parking garage, they thought the Clark sidewalk was unimportant.

The same calculus probably applies here - most of the pedestrians will be coming from Lincoln Park (south on Larrabee), the 900 W. Chicago area (north on Larrabee) or Gold Coast (west on Division). To the west of the Target there is currently no residential until you go a full mile away to Wicker Park. Of course, this area will probably be developed intensely in the coming years, but that's not Target's problem, and they've put in contingencies to allow for sidewalk expansion eventually.

Also - several people here noticed a disturbing trend where Division was slowly being widened into an auto sewer over the course of successive projects. I think that trend may stop under Gabe Klein, and the excess roadspace may even make Division into a good candidate for protected bike lanes or bus lanes.

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Last edited by ardecila; Oct 11, 2011 at 2:44 PM.
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  #13591  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2011, 4:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
I do think it's at best disingenuous for Target to claim that most customers will arrive on foot or by CTA, but then build a sliver sidewalk. They did the same thing at Clark/Roosevelt on the Clark side.
That wasn't really Target's decision. CDOT decided to do the Clark underpass after the Target plans had been improved. CDOT should have had more foresight either back when the LaSalle Park PD was being negotiated in 1991, or when Target came in for their amendment circa 2004.

However, I do understand that Target was totally taken aback by the number of customers who arrive on foot with granny carts.
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  #13592  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2011, 12:28 AM
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Mariano's Fresh Market opened today. Here's a shot of Village Market Center.

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  #13593  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2011, 12:55 AM
Rizzo Rizzo is offline
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Mariano's Fresh Market opened today. Here's a shot of Village Market Center.

Killer shot. Planning to visit tomorrow during lunch.

This is a design solution that basically answers all my posts above.

Look at the glass.
Look at the scale.
Look at the facade divisions.
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  #13594  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2011, 1:48 AM
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^ Question arises, is there a market for all of those smaller retail stalls?

Sure, LSE has been a very successful development so far, but has it developed a large enough population to support so many stores that will probably rely entirely on foot traffic from nearby to stay in business?
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  #13595  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2011, 2:47 AM
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^

Hey tup,

Several of the spaces have been reported (by Magellan) to be under contract and are to open in 2012, including the following from memory:

- Black Coffee Gallery
- Cuticles (Nail Salon)
- Eggy's (Breakfast Diner)
- Maison A Brasserie

There are at least 5 open spots in which tenants have not yet been announced.
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  #13596  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2011, 3:03 AM
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Newberry Library plans $25-million makeover

Crain's Chicago Business
10/11/11

"...the library plans to expand its collections, digitize original materials and make physical improvements, including installing $2.6 million in state-of-the-art compact shelving, a project that has already been funded and is in the process of being installed. Compact shelving and digitization will increase the floor space available for exhibits by about 50%..."

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/secti...entId=blogDest
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  #13597  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2011, 3:10 AM
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Navy Pier redo draws 50+ designer proposals

Crains Chicago Business
10/11/11

"...The Pierscape project, announced in June, calls for a massive redesign of several areas, including the Crystal Garden and Gateway Park at the Pier's west entrance. The project also calls for new landscaping, public art and lighting installations. It's part of a $155-million rehabilitation project to draw more visitors to Navy Pier. A total of 52 submissions were received from more than a dozen countries. Among them is Skidmore Owings Merrill LLP. The turnout has Navy Pier Inc. board members "absolutely thrilled," Sarah Garvey, chairman of the board, said in a press release..."


http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...gner-proposals
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  #13598  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2011, 4:51 AM
Rizzo Rizzo is offline
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Navy Pier redo draws 50+ designer proposals

Crains Chicago Business
10/11/11

"...The Pierscape project, announced in June, calls for a massive redesign of several areas, including the Crystal Garden and Gateway Park at the Pier's west entrance. The project also calls for new landscaping, public art and lighting installations. It's part of a $155-million rehabilitation project to draw more visitors to Navy Pier. A total of 52 submissions were received from more than a dozen countries. Among them is Skidmore Owings Merrill LLP. The turnout has Navy Pier Inc. board members "absolutely thrilled," Sarah Garvey, chairman of the board, said in a press release..."


http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...gner-proposals
This is very exciting. I really hope we get some stunning architecture. But at the same time, cautiously excited that this doesn't become too pretty to touch. The benefits of the existing pier is that it can handle the abuse of fun...for the lack of better words. Meanwhile, you can't take a bottle of water or even set up a photo tripod on the Nichols Bridgeway to the Art Museum because they are worried it will get damaged. Let's just hope the starchitects keep in mind durability. The minute I see wood or stainless steel in the renderings, I know it will be destroyed in only a matter of months by a quad bike, skateboard, or spilled beer and nacho cheese.
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  #13599  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2011, 6:59 AM
nicksplace27 nicksplace27 is offline
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Originally Posted by EarlyBuyer View Post
Newberry Library plans $25-million makeover

Crain's Chicago Business
10/11/11

"...the library plans to expand its collections, digitize original materials and make physical improvements, including installing $2.6 million in state-of-the-art compact shelving, a project that has already been funded and is in the process of being installed. Compact shelving and digitization will increase the floor space available for exhibits by about 50%..."

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/secti...entId=blogDest
Any expansion onto that terrible parking lot? Turn the Newberry into something a tad less stuffy?
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  #13600  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2011, 2:24 PM
Nowhereman1280 Nowhereman1280 is offline
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This is very exciting. I really hope we get some stunning architecture. But at the same time, cautiously excited that this doesn't become too pretty to touch. The benefits of the existing pier is that it can handle the abuse of fun...for the lack of better words. Meanwhile, you can't take a bottle of water or even set up a photo tripod on the Nichols Bridgeway to the Art Museum because they are worried it will get damaged. Let's just hope the starchitects keep in mind durability. The minute I see wood or stainless steel in the renderings, I know it will be destroyed in only a matter of months by a quad bike, skateboard, or spilled beer and nacho cheese.
Well those fancier finishes are fine as long as they are used in places where they won't be subject to damage such as those that are off the ground or on interior walls where they are not subject to impact by rolling objects. The problem with the bridge is that it makes an excellent slide especially in the winter when there is snow on it.
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