Richmond, B.C., considers banning Chinese-only signage

[spaceprobe]

Originally Posted by rousseau

I disagree, and that's why I made my post. I don't think it's a fluke that it happened in Vancouver and not Toronto. There's something more at work here. It probably has something to do with the larger size of Toronto. Toronto has far more ethnic Chinese people than Vancouver, but they are a smaller contingent percentage-wise, which suggests that they are perceived as less of a "threat."

Which is not to suggest that there aren't inter-ethnic tensions in Toronto, of course.

I think it is the percent that makes the difference. Toronto's chinese population is not much larger than Vancouver's, but Vancouver's % is double Toronto's, and Richmond center is the most chinese concentrated place in the country. Also, the thing with Richmond is that it is still relatively central in the region, and lots of people pass through it and go there for meetings, activities, airport, etc. This is a bit different from Markham which is at the periphery of Toronto. Aside from the main chinatowns near DT Toronto and Vancouver, the chinatowns in toronto are more regarded as just small neighbourhoods with majority chinese shops. Political attention isn't really paid to those areas, just like all the streets scattered throughout the City of Vancouver lined with nothing but chinese shops.

[SignalHillHiker]

Did you ever meet a blond, ripped, very handsome guy (an engineer) with the initials A.S., and his wife (my cousin, a teacher), who is VERY tan, brunette, and looks quite a lot like Jordana Brewster? Initials S.F., until they came home to get married.

[Policy Wonk]

Originally Posted by Doug

Her exact words were to the effect of if you see a sign entirely in Chinese just assume it's advertising "extremely localized massages" (obviously not the word she used).

[SignalHillHiker]

Why are we tap-dancing around it? Handjobs or blowjobs? Or did she actually say they offer intercourse?

[Policy Wonk]

Since you're a moderator...

Her exact words were "If you see a sign that is entirely in Chinese and it isn't outside of a church, just assume it's advertising handjobs, you will more than likely be right."

[SignalHillHiker]

But seriously, can you not get a HJ at any massage parlour, no matter who's running it? Seems like a pretty easy thing to ask - with no harm done if the answer is no.

[Policy Wonk]

I honestly have no idea.

[BretttheRiderFan]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Did you ever meet a blond, ripped, very handsome guy (an engineer) with the initials A.S., and his wife (my cousin, a teacher), who is VERY tan, brunette, and looks quite a lot like Jordana Brewster? Initials S.F., until they came home to get married.

I don't believe so. But I wouldn't be shocked if I knew people who know them.

Have you been to GP at all?

[SignalHillHiker]

No. When I moved to WPG, I assumed we'd be seeing each other every weekend. I had no idea how far it actually was. We only got together a couple of times, never in GP.

[BretttheRiderFan]

Hahahaha yeah, GP isn't an "every other weekend" to Winnipeg kind of place.

Edmonton? Sure. Calgary? Maaaaybe.

Winnipeg?

I'm trying to think of what other cities over 50k in Canada are more isolated from other cities of over 50k as GP.

Maybe Prince George? St. John's?

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by spaceprobe

I think it is the percent that makes the difference. Toronto's chinese population is not much larger than Vancouver's, but Vancouver's % is double Toronto's, and Richmond center is the most chinese concentrated place in the country. Also, the thing with Richmond is that it is still relatively central in the region, and lots of people pass through it and go there for meetings, activities, airport, etc. This is a bit different from Markham which is at the periphery of Toronto. Aside from the main chinatowns near DT Toronto and Vancouver, the chinatowns in toronto are more regarded as just small neighbourhoods with majority chinese shops. Political attention isn't really paid to those areas, just like all the streets scattered throughout the City of Vancouver lined with nothing but chinese shops.

600,000 Chinese in Toronto as compared to 400,000 in Vancouver. That's a lot more by any standard. And Markham has a much larger Chinese population (115,000) concentrated in a smaller part of the city than Richmond (89,000), which has Chinese residents spread out throughout the city (going by the ward/neighbourhood demographics on the official websites of the respective cities).

Again, I'm not suggesting that people in Toronto are intrinsically less xenophobic than people in Vancouver. But the history of friction between Chinese and non-Chinese in Vancouver seems rather prominent by comparison, at least from what I've seen. As these are the two go-to cities for Chinese immigration to Canada, it's only natural that you might wonder at reasons for the discrepancy.

The best I can come up with, and you mention it too, is the difference in demographic proportions. I don't know what it's like in Vancouver, but while east Asians are literally everywhere in Toronto, you really only feel potentially overwhelmed by Chinese demographic prominence in out-of-the-way Markham. My sense is that it's not hard to avoid Chinese restaurants in the GTA if that's not your thing.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan

Hahahaha yeah, GP isn't an "every other weekend" to Winnipeg kind of place.

Edmonton? Sure. Calgary? Maaaaybe.

Winnipeg?

I'm trying to think of what other cities over 50k in Canada are more isolated from other cities of over 50k as GP.

Maybe Prince George? St. John's?

Yeah, it was far.

The entire time I was there, the only relatives of mine who lived in Newfoundland who came to visit me were my parents and a different cousin.

She met my boyfriend at the time, from Winnipeg. And famously asked him, moments before this picture, "What's an Me-am-nem-anemonite?"



And that's an awful picture of her so I know she'd kill me if I didn't post a good one:

But I did get to pop out to Calgary:

[Doug]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

But seriously, can you not get a HJ at any massage parlour, no matter who's running it? Seems like a pretty easy thing to ask - with no harm done if the answer is no.

If it is purely a massage parlour in a seedy strip mall then the answer is likely yes, or more accurately used to be yes because those places don't really exist anymore. Most massage places nowadays are connected with yoga studios or spas and try to project upscale images. I suspect the valued added service to mostly be procured online. I have no idea if the stereotypes about massage parlours in the basements of Chinese restaurants are or ever were true. The same stereotypes exist about gambling operations. Massage parlours in Asia are a completely different story.

[SignalHillHiker]

One of hiking partners actually runs a casual massage parlour out of her house. She's asked me to work there when she has clients who are horrified to discover she's female. I declined. I think it's common enough.

[rousseau]

Am I hateful person if I secretly (well, not so much any more, as I'm now writing about it) dread every thread on this fucking forum because I know that sooner or later every topic under the fucking sun is going to end up with relentless encomiums to Newfoundland or your friends and relatives?

I don't want to be a hateful person, honestly I don't...but I don't think I ever want to see the word "Newfoundland" again. You've killed that word for me. Is there a chance we could establish a Newfoundland-free zone on this forum? Just for sanity's sake?

[SignalHillHiker]

Aww, sorry. I don't really have much of a filter.

I'd illustrate that with a link to Sean Majumder's Newfie Directions, but that's obviously not going to help.

I don't know what to do, b'y. It all just happens naturally in conversation with me. I've tried to not to do it, but I just... don't know how to participate in discussions without it. Perhaps just put me on ignore? But please don't if it means I can't see your posts. I like reading them.

[Policy Wonk]

Originally Posted by Doug

I have no idea if the stereotypes about massage parlours in the basements of Chinese restaurants are or ever were true. The same stereotypes exist about gambling operations.

She claims there was such an establishment in a computer store on 32nd Ave where Chinese men would be approached and invited to the back. But that would have been more than a decade ago, she moved to L.A. in 2003.

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by logan5

You're right. If it was Portuguese and Richmond was full of Brazilians, it would be party central and nobody would give a crap about Portuguese only signs because there would be a strong social connection that would mitigate any concerns about signage. Same if it was Cubans or Russians. But there is a huge disconnect with the new Chinese community. It's a fact that many Chinese don't like social interaction with non Chinese. I've seen proof of this at certain downtown nightclubs where non Chinese are treated with outright hostility and are told they are not welcome. The afterhours club on Granville had major problem with this as there are only a few afterhours clubs for people of every background to choose from. Things like that tend to cause resentment and consequently complaints about signage.

The thing is though that clubs in Toronto and Calgary discriminate against South Asians and East Asians. At the very least, that is a popular perception within those communities. But hey, Asians are anti-social and are not one of the two sacred colonialist communities.

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by rousseau

600,000 Chinese in Toronto as compared to 400,000 in Vancouver. That's a lot more by any standard. And Markham has a much larger Chinese population (115,000) concentrated in a smaller part of the city than Richmond (89,000), which has Chinese residents spread out throughout the city (going by the ward/neighbourhood demographics on the official websites of the respective cities).

Again, I'm not suggesting that people in Toronto are intrinsically less xenophobic than people in Vancouver. But the history of friction between Chinese and non-Chinese in Vancouver seems rather prominent by comparison, at least from what I've seen. As these are the two go-to cities for Chinese immigration to Canada, it's only natural that you might wonder at reasons for the discrepancy.

The best I can come up, and you mention it too, is the difference in demographic proportions. I don't know what it's like in Vancouver, but while east Asians are literally everywhere in Toronto, you really feel potentially overwhelmed by Chinese demographic prominence in out-of-the-way Markham. My sense is that it's not hard to avoid Chinese restaurants in the GTA if that's not your thing.

I think one difference is that many of the Chinese in Vancouver are wealthy. Outside of Richmond, they also supposedly buy a lot of condo units in the downtown.

If you look at a demographics map of Toronto, it's like a donut, with the visible minorities on the outside, and the downtown is surprisingly white. Downtown is still quite diverse, but not at all like say, Brampton or Markham.

Some people feel in Vancouver seem to think that there's an elite wealthy Chinese minority, kind of like the old Anglo community in Montreal before the Quiet Revolution.

So perceived wealth and power may have something to do with it.

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Am I hateful person if I secretly (well, not so much any more, as I'm now writing about it) dread every thread on this fucking forum because I know that sooner or later every topic under the fucking sun is going to end up with relentless encomiums to Newfoundland or your friends and relatives?

I don't want to be a hateful person, honestly I don't...but I don't think I ever want to see the word "Newfoundland" again. You've killed that word for me. Is there a chance we could establish a Newfoundland-free zone on this forum? Just for sanity's sake?

I feel horrible, but damn, well said.