Regina | New Mosaic Stadium

[macblaze]

Originally Posted by trueviking

i dont really care at all actually...im simply expressing my opinion based on my experience....i worked on the feasibility study of the domed stadium proposal in winnipeg so i am very familiar with the issues...im not sure why it is being taken as an attack or as baiting...my points are as legitimate as his.....i dont oppose this stadium at all...i'd love to see it built....its just that there are a lot of things being said here that can and should be disputed.

the fact is that there is no parking strategy, which is actually incredible....the proposal is that the warehouse district and downtown accommodate 10-15000 cars when the stadium is in use....as an urban planing strategy that is a dangerous approach....this will invite demolition in these areas as land owners try to capitalize on the parking demand which will harm the integrity of the neighbourhood.....simply offloading the parking demands on the community will lead to a degradation of the urban fabric.



if this facility is as high use as they claim, it will be far more profitable to create a surface parking lot than to restore a warehouse or build a new building....increasing parking pressures on an urban area can have major negative effect....they are not complimentary to each other.

it is actually quite unbelievable that this is the proposal....google earth any stadium in north america...it is surrounded in parking.....do people in regina actually think that spreading those lots through their downtown is a good idea?

well viking I dont agree with you on most things but I do agree you should have the right to express opinion I don't understand why this is a problem if people have a problem with ones opinion then they themselves should express there opinion for or against the topic that what discussions are all about so what if it not based on fact then correct the person and provide them with the facts and its up to them if they approve or disapprove or don't respond at all . look guys doesn't matter what we say on this page it not going to change policy this stadium will get built or not built but it wont be based on anything we say on here so let have fun in here and not take things to seriously . I for one find it very entertaining on here and love the arguments that come up some of them are very funny like watching Jessey shore but unlike the shore I am laughing with you not at you . Now about the parking I really cant see that as a problem people can keep on parking in north central which can be great for me since it more money in my pocket lol lol (evil laugh ) also this would place more presure on the public to use city transit that is already used now for rider game with the football express , now I thought they where also putting in a park aid ?

[trueviking]

migs....the final site development plan will change....this is a feasibility study....research other development of this type...it always progresses organically depending on who wants to pay for what.

almost half of the current mosaic parking is on adjacent surface lots.....you seem pretty confident that will not be the case with this new stadium so why do you claim that the parking situation will be the same as it is now?...seems to be a conflict in your assertion.

i asked what the parking strategy is because i didn't know...he seemed totally confident that it did not involve the surface parking that is part of practically every football stadium development on the continent......after re-reading the study, it is my opinion that it will harm the downtown....it will put negative pressure on development of the numerous empty lots in the downtown and warehouse areas....off loading the parking of a football stadium to an urban area is a very unique strategy in north america and in my opinion is not a good one.....this only further supports my thesis that stadiums are not appropriate urban buildings....the spread of surface parking is an issue with stadiums when large amounts are provided on site...this strategy will only exacerbate that pressure....why develop my empty lot if i can sit back, do nothing and collect fees for stadium parking?

much of what i say is based on study of numerous examples of similar projects across the continent...i realize that everyone here chooses to blindly believe a feasibility report done by a group who have no interest in presenting the negative issues because they stand to make millions from the progression of this project, but fortunately the issues it faces are not new and there are numerous precedents that can be studied.....many cities have gone down this path, selling this exact bill of goods and i am simply exposing you to their real world experience....you can choose to believe that regina will be different for whatever reason, but it doesn't mean that my points are not valid.

out of curiosity, how many annual visitors does the sports museum currently get?....looks like a pretty small operation....why is it now being championed as the catalyst for activity on this site...is it that currently?

its obvious that the desire for this stadium eclipses any rational debate about legitimate issues...i am not making any personal attacks...i am not insulting anyone...i am simply providing a legitimate opinion on the issues i see with this stadium.....why get so worked up about it.....im not sure why migs feels the need to respond to every single sentence like i am disrespecting his mother.

[CCF]

I've spent a number of years as a professional planner in Canada and am now working towards a Masters in the field. I too am providing a legitimate analysis of the proposal.

Agree to disagree, I suppose. It's as simple as that.

[trueviking]

absolutely....i take no offence...i hope you don't.

out of curiosity...you don't see the inherent issues with offloading the parking of a stadium on an urban area?

there are only 5000 parking stalls in downtown....seems like the 10-13000 cars for this stadium will use every available parking spot in the DT and warehouse area....i really cant see how creating demand for that much parking in an urban area can be seen as anything but a negative incentive to development.

[skthunder77]

Originally Posted by trueviking

migs....the final site development plan will change....this is a feasibility study....research other development of this type...it always progresses organically depending on who wants to pay for what.

almost half of the current mosaic parking is on adjacent surface lots.....you seem pretty confident that will not be the case with this new stadium so why do you claim that the parking situation will be the same as it is now?...seems to be a conflict in your assertion.

i asked what the parking strategy is because i didn't know...he seemed totally confident that it did not involve the surface parking that is part of practically every football stadium development on the continent......after re-reading the study, it is my opinion that it will harm the downtown....it will put negative pressure on development of the numerous empty lots in the downtown and warehouse areas....off loading the parking of a football stadium to an urban area is a very unique strategy in north america and in my opinion is not a good one.....this only further supports my thesis that stadiums are not appropriate urban buildings....the spread of surface parking is an issue with stadiums when large amounts are provided on site...this strategy will only exacerbate that pressure....why develop my empty lot if i can sit back, do nothing and collect fees for stadium parking?

much of what i say is based on study of numerous examples of similar projects across the continent...i realize that everyone here chooses to blindly believe a feasibility report done by a group who have no interest in presenting the negative issues because they stand to make millions from the progression of this project, but fortunately the issues it faces are not new and there are numerous precedents that can be studied.....many cities have gone down this path, selling this exact bill of goods and i am simply exposing you to their real world experience....you can choose to believe that regina will be different for whatever reason, but it doesn't mean that my points are not valid.

out of curiosity, how many annual visitors does the sports museum currently get?....looks like a pretty small operation....why is it now being championed as the catalyst for activity on this site...is it that currently?

its obvious that the desire for this stadium eclipses any rational debate about legitimate issues...i am not making any personal attacks...i am not insulting anyone...i am simply providing a legitimate opinion on the issues i see with this stadium.....why get so worked up about it.....im not sure why migs feels the need to respond to every single sentence like i am disrespecting his mother.

Personally, I come to this forum to read interesting new information on new developments in my community. It's a real downer to come hear and every second post it telling me why things won't work, how this is wrong and that is wrong...why to you take so much pleasure in constantly being a killjoy? Are you trying to set yourself for an I told you so? I don't get it...in the end, what the H E double hockey sticks is this whole development to you?

[CCF]

Originally Posted by trueviking

absolutely....i take no offence...i hope you don't.

out of curiosity...you don't see the inherent issues with offloading the parking of a stadium on an urban area?

there are only 5000 parking stalls in downtown....seems like the 10-13000 cars for this stadium will use every available parking spot in the DT and warehouse area....i really cant see how creating demand for that much parking in an urban area can be seen as anything but a negative incentive to development.

Not in the least!

I understand what you are saying, but in my opinion, it is better than the alternative of providing ample surface parking on-site.

As I said previously, the best way to make transit more effective is to make it competitive with driving. If it's easy to drive and park, then that's absolutely what people will do. The city has implemented a fairly successful park and ride system at various points in the city, and I only imagine that to increase with this proposal. The trick to challenge this possibility is to change the tax structure to tax surface lots at a higher rate than buildings. This serves as a disincentive to demolishing. Politically that could be tough to pass with some people, but again in downtown Regina it's no longer possible to develop surface lots. Quite a few lots are owned by the prov. government, so it's not really about a money making venture.

Every development comes with pros and cons. At the end of the day, the positives of this location, in my opinion, far outweigh the negatives. I'm completely opposed to suburban locations for sports facilities as I believe it negates any economic benefit.

[trueviking]

hmmm...ok...i have a hard time believing that people will be taking the bus to this facility all the time in any great numbers....it is my experience that people don't stop driving, the neighbourhood adjusts to accommodates the needs.

i agree that ample surface lots are not that much better....the reason i believe that these facilities are bad for urban environments....their economic spin-off is generally quite minimal but their environmental impact can be devastating.

in my opinion a stadium should be located in a central area but not an urban one....even the mosaic site is somewhat better....there is far more evidence to support the argument that stadiums end up hurting the sensitive fabric of urban neighbourhoods than there is improving it.

i very much agree with your tax theory....in this case though, its difficult to say to the community that you have to provide 13000 parking stalls for this development but we are also going to tax you for doing it....we would all love to not have parking but it is a reality....the operators of the facility will certainly find it a detriment if it is not easily available.

if regina was a much bigger city and that amount of parking was only a small segment, i could understand, but it is essentially all the available parking in the area.....MTS as an example has no parking, but winnipeg's downtown supports 75000 downtown employees every day so the 15000 people at the arena has little effect.....that is not the case in regina.

anyways, its simply my opinion...no need to fight endlessly about it.

[Beadyeyez]

Originally Posted by trueviking

not according to the report....almost half park on the surface lots directly beside the stadium....the estimate is that the parking in downtown and warehouse district will triple from its current amounts.

forcing people to not drive to games seems a bit unrealistic to me....its more likely that the surrounding neighbourhoods will adapt to accommodate the parking shortfall instead.
thats great to hear that regina has banned the creation of surface parking....that can often be a challenge politically....this does however discourage development of existing lots by providing significant revenue opportunity to the land owners.

Go to a Canucks game or concert at Rogers arena. Unless you want to pay$25 - $30 to park within 10 blocks of the arena...you find another way to get there. The bars surrounding are all packed with patrons hours before and after the events and the hotels are filled to capacity.

Although...any business owner/ homeowner who would want to make a few extra bucks could really benefit. Much like they do now on the north side of Mosaic. Myself and friends have paid hundreds of dollars to the fine folks on the corner of 9th and Retallack to park on their front lawn.

Same scenario in Edmonton. We usually pay $30 to park a half-ton across form Commonwealth. Approx 50 vehicles fit in that lot...quick $1500(in one afternoon) just for being close the the stadium. Not bad revenue for an empty lot.

Parking downtown would also be a benefit IMO. Why wouldn't you want people walking past your establishment before or after a big show or football game. Maybe stop at the casino to kill an hour till traffic gets thinner. Go for a meal before or a few drinks after...all money being spent that is directly related to the location of the facility.

[Beadyeyez]

Originally Posted by trueviking

hmmm...ok...i have a hard time believing that people will be taking the bus to this facility all the time in any great numbers....it is my experience that people don't stop driving, the neighbourhood adjusts to accommodates the needs.

i agree that ample surface lots are not that much better....the reason i believe that these facilities are bad for urban environments....their economic spin-off is generally quite minimal but their environmental impact can be devastating.

in my opinion a stadium should be located in a central area but not an urban one....even the mosaic site is somewhat better....there is far more evidence to support the argument that stadiums end up hurting the sensitive fabric of urban neighbourhoods than there is improving it.

i very much agree with your tax theory....in this case though, its difficult to say to the community that you have to provide 13000 parking stalls for this development but we are also going to tax you for doing it....we would all love to not have parking but it is a reality....the operators of the facility will certainly find it a detriment if it is not easily available.

if regina was a much bigger city and that amount of parking was only a small segment, i could understand, but it is essentially all the available parking in the area.....MTS as an example has no parking, but winnipeg's downtown supports 75000 downtown employees every day so the 15000 people at the arena has little effect.....that is not the case in regina.

anyways, its simply my opinion...no need to fight endlessly about it.

You should get more experiences.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Beadyeyez

Same scenario in Edmonton. We usually pay $30 to park a half-ton across form Commonwealth. Approx 50 vehicles fit in that lot...quick $1500(in one afternoon) just for being close the the stadium. Not bad revenue for an empty lot.

exactly...why would he ever develop that lot?....increased property taxes, building maintenance....every existing parking lot in downtown regina will now be a cash cow....a big disincentive to development.

so...if you pay so much for parking why not take the bus like some here think will happen?

[Beadyeyez]

Originally Posted by trueviking

exactly...why would he ever develop that lot?....increased property taxes, building maintenance....every existing parking lot in downtown regina will now be a cash cow....a big disincentive to development.

so...if you pay so much for parking why not take the bus like some here think will happen?

"Hundreds of dollars" are for the six of us that have had season tickets for 11 years together. For the $5/vehicle to park across the street from Mosaic(and my gate)...why would I pay the $4 to ride the bus and walk around the whole stadium.

Have you even been to a game here? If I couldn't park so close or was forced to pay to park any further away...I WOULD be finding alternate means to get to the games. Park and ride, charters from bars/hotels...carpooling.

If the parking around the stadium is limited...do you think people will just not go to a Rider game or concert? Just more ways for money to flow. What restaurant/bar owner wouldn't want people parked in their parking lot...bussed to and from the event...right back to the doorstep of their establishment? Hungry and thirsty.

Or...given the potential location...funnelled right out the front door of the facility onto Dewdney Ave..

Just so you know...that part of Dewdney has lots of bars/lounges to choose from. I thought I would let you know because I am pretty sure you have never been in Regina, by some of your posts.

[Beadyeyez]

Originally Posted by trueviking

exactly...why would he ever develop that lot?....increased property taxes, building maintenance....every existing parking lot in downtown regina will now be a cash cow....a big disincentive to development.

so...if you pay so much for parking why not take the bus like some here think will happen?

I re-read your post...I see you meant why I pay the $30 to park in Edmonton....When there are 5 of us that usually make the road trip for one game ..we pay the 6 bucks each... rather than getting lost on the LRT or whatever they call it in Edmonton. If I lived there...I would be on a bus or the LRT for sure.

[Migs]

Originally Posted by trueviking

exactly...why would he ever develop that lot?....increased property taxes, building maintenance....every existing parking lot in downtown regina will now be a cash cow....a big disincentive to development.

so...if you pay so much for parking why not take the bus like some here think will happen?

First of all there is already a proven busing program that works very well with the current location that takes people to all corners of the city to and from the stadium, no reason why a similar yet larger program couldn't be moved 9 blocks east where the new stadium is to be located.

That said, right now there is more development taking place in downtown Regina than there has been in decades. Add to that hoteliers, retail, and residential developers are lining up to be apart of this project, (the first new hotel, Four Points Sheraton breaks ground this spring) makes you wonder why they are doing the opposite of your argument.

[Migs]

Originally Posted by trueviking

almost half of the current mosaic parking is on adjacent surface lots.....you seem pretty confident that will not be the case with this new stadium so why do you claim that the parking situation will be the same as it is now?...seems to be a conflict in your assertion.

No conflict at all, the majority of public parking for the current stadium is the land at Evraz Place and all the residential streets, all of which can still be used for the new facility. Most of the surface parking that is immediately adjacent to Mosaic Stadium is used by VIP's, players/coaches, buses, disabled, vendors, etc. There will be an underground parking portion to the new facility to house some of these patrons as well as a small portion of land east of Broad St & north of the tracks for bus parking.

[UPP]

Originally Posted by trueviking

hmmm...ok...i have a hard time believing that people will be taking the bus to this facility all the time in any great numbers....it is my experience that people don't stop driving, the neighbourhood adjusts to accommodates the needs.

i agree that ample surface lots are not that much better....the reason i believe that these facilities are bad for urban environments....their economic spin-off is generally quite minimal but their environmental impact can be devastating.

in my opinion a stadium should be located in a central area but not an urban one....even the mosaic site is somewhat better....there is far more evidence to support the argument that stadiums end up hurting the sensitive fabric of urban neighbourhoods than there is improving it.

i very much agree with your tax theory....in this case though, its difficult to say to the community that you have to provide 13000 parking stalls for this development but we are also going to tax you for doing it....we would all love to not have parking but it is a reality....the operators of the facility will certainly find it a detriment if it is not easily available.

if regina was a much bigger city and that amount of parking was only a small segment, i could understand, but it is essentially all the available parking in the area.....MTS as an example has no parking, but winnipeg's downtown supports 75000 downtown employees every day so the 15000 people at the arena has little effect.....that is not the case in regina.

anyways, its simply my opinion...no need to fight endlessly about it.

Regina too has a large amount of downtown employees. (my guess would be 25-30 000) And most if not all home games occur in the evening or on weekends when downtown offices aren't open. I also find it hard to believe that there are only 5000 parking stalls in the downtown. Already, many Rider fans use lots that will be used for the new stadium. (I do, and I walk with literally thousands others to the game who walk from the downtown.)

If I were you, I'd be more concerned about your own backyard and the lack of available parking and high-volume roads at the new Winnipeg Stadium being built in the middle of nowhere.

[1ajs]

No Mass Por Favor!!

[esquire]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

No Mass Por Favor!!

Sorry 1ajs, but I couldn't resist jumping in with my own two cents on this.

In theory, Mosaic Stadium shouldn't work, but it does. A 30,000 seat stadium in a residential area with hardly any parking, yet people manage to make it in without any problems. I don't see why moving the stadium 3/4 of a kilometre east would all of a sudden cause insurmountable problems.

Personally, on the rare occasions when I've attended football games in Regina, I have left the car behind downtown and walked the short distance to Mosaic. With a stadium that's even closer to downtown, I would think that all of downtown Regina and the warehouse area north of the tracks would be used for parking. And given that most games are played evenings and weekends - a time when downtown Regina is not normally bursting at the seams - I don't see capacity being an issue.

The arguments being marshalled against the Regina complex echo the ones used against the MTS Centre, and we all know how valid those turned out to be. I think the Regina stadium is a great idea, provided of course that the province can afford such an ambitious structure. I think Winnipeg could take a lesson from its western neighbours in thinking big. By contrast, our sports facilities are certainly passable places to watch a game, but were never (and won't be, in the case of the football stadium) particularly impressive places even on day one. Good on Regina, I say. I don't think it would hurt if Winnipeg were embarrassed a bit by Saskatchewan's can-do approach to this. Maybe we might step up our game a little in response.

[thefourthtower]

Originally Posted by esquire

Sorry 1ajs, but I couldn't resist jumping in with my own two cents on this.

In theory, Mosaic Stadium shouldn't work, but it does. A 30,000 seat stadium in a residential area with hardly any parking, yet people manage to make it in without any problems. I don't see why moving the stadium 3/4 of a kilometre east would all of a sudden cause insurmountable problems.

Personally, on the rare occasions when I've attended football games in Regina, I have left the car behind downtown and walked the short distance to Mosaic. With a stadium that's even closer to downtown, I would think that all of downtown Regina and the warehouse area north of the tracks would be used for parking. And given that most games are played evenings and weekends - a time when downtown Regina is not normally bursting at the seams - I don't see capacity being an issue.

The arguments being marshalled against the Regina complex echo the ones used against the MTS Centre, and we all know how valid those turned out to be. I think the Regina stadium is a great idea, provided of course that the province can afford such an ambitious structure. I think Winnipeg could take a lesson from its western neighbours in thinking big. By contrast, our sports facilities are certainly passable places to watch a game, but were never (and won't be, in the case of the football stadium) particularly impressive places even on day one. Good on Regina, I say. I don't think it would hurt if Winnipeg were embarrassed a bit by Saskatchewan's can-do approach to this. Maybe we might step up our game a little in response.

Now this is one of the best posts yet , besides all of migs ,good on you, good on sask for getting her done thankyou

[CCF]

Well not a thing is done yet.......lets wait before breaking out the champagne!

[djforsberg]

Originally Posted by esquire

Sorry 1ajs, but I couldn't resist jumping in with my own two cents on this.

In theory, Mosaic Stadium shouldn't work, but it does. A 30,000 seat stadium in a residential area with hardly any parking, yet people manage to make it in without any problems. I don't see why moving the stadium 3/4 of a kilometre east would all of a sudden cause insurmountable problems.

Personally, on the rare occasions when I've attended football games in Regina, I have left the car behind downtown and walked the short distance to Mosaic. With a stadium that's even closer to downtown, I would think that all of downtown Regina and the warehouse area north of the tracks would be used for parking. And given that most games are played evenings and weekends - a time when downtown Regina is not normally bursting at the seams - I don't see capacity being an issue.

The arguments being marshalled against the Regina complex echo the ones used against the MTS Centre, and we all know how valid those turned out to be. I think the Regina stadium is a great idea, provided of course that the province can afford such an ambitious structure. I think Winnipeg could take a lesson from its western neighbours in thinking big. By contrast, our sports facilities are certainly passable places to watch a game, but were never (and won't be, in the case of the football stadium) particularly impressive places even on day one. Good on Regina, I say. I don't think it would hurt if Winnipeg were embarrassed a bit by Saskatchewan's can-do approach to this. Maybe we might step up our game a little in response.

Someone in Winnipeg with some sense! Were you originally from Sask? Haha. The parking will be fine. For Rider games (I go to all of them), I park five or six blocks away and am fine with that. Parking isn't an issue now, and it won't be with the new stadium.

This has all been mentioned before, but Saskatchewan can afford to think big. Our surpluses will return this March, the debt will be paid off over the Sask Party's next term (I hope they make this a goal in the election this year), we can afford it. Not everything has to make 100% economic sense. Publicly funded hospitals don't make economic sense. Most museums and art galleries don't make economic sense. This isn't being built to be a money maker. Its being built to give Regina and Saskatchewan something to be proud of. To finally give one of Canada's most popular professional sports teams, which is owned by the people of this province, a new place to call home and to provide an opportunity for it to be used for many other events. To provide the centre-piece of Regina's entertainment district which already attracts people 7 days a week, linking the Warehouse District with downtown and the Casino, and attempt to bring even more people to the area. It'd be nice if the rest of the Winnipeg folks and other nay-sayers just realized all this for once.