Calgary Stoney Trail [Ring Road]

[Socguy]

If that is the case, the city would be wise to rush some improvement to the Sarcee/Bow intersection as Sarcee is about to become the default connection between the SW and NW ring roads...

[lubicon]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

The SW ring road project's scope appears to have been changed.

The SW leg now includes some of what was meant to be part of the West leg; The SW leg will now continue west along Highway 8 to 101st street, and now includes the 69th street interchange and the replacement bridges over the elbow river west of the City.

I assume that this means that the west leg will continue to be delayed.

Originally Posted by Socguy

If that is the case, the city would be wise to rush some improvement to the Sarcee/Bow intersection as Sarcee is about to become the default connection between the SW and NW ring roads...

Makes sense to do this especially if they are delaying the west portion. At the very least the Sarcee interchange should be fully built out now so there is minimal disruption when they do move on the west road. Much as I hate to see the project delayed at least this will help mitigate the pain somewhat. And yes, Sarcee is going to become a cluster now. It's bad enough as it is and dumping more traffic onto it will only make things worse. The shitty thing is this will only be a temporary problem until the west ring road is built so whatever improvements the City might make now may not be needed in the future and become a waste of money. Or they City does nothing and traffic becomes even worse for years to come. It's really a no win situation for the City.

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by lubicon

Makes sense to do this especially if they are delaying the west portion. At the very least the Sarcee interchange should be fully built out now so there is minimal disruption when they do move on the west road. Much as I hate to see the project delayed at least this will help mitigate the pain somewhat. And yes, Sarcee is going to become a cluster now. It's bad enough as it is and dumping more traffic onto it will only make things worse. The shitty thing is this will only be a temporary problem until the west ring road is built so whatever improvements the City might make now may not be needed in the future and become a waste of money. Or they City does nothing and traffic becomes even worse for years to come. It's really a no win situation for the City.

The city should demand 100% funding from the province for Sarcee/Bow, Sarcee/Richmond Road, and Sarcee/16th Ave (rebuild).

That or 100% funding for the green line.

[MalcolmTucker]

Umm? Under what grounds?

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

I believe the City already tried to get the Province to include the Sarcee/Richmond interchange in the ring road project a few years ago.

It will be interesting to see what the costs of upgrading the Sarcee corridor will be, especially compared to the cost of the West leg, and to see if delaying the last ring road section will actually save money if Sarcee upgrades are pursued by the City.

With 80,000+ cars projected to cross the Elbow on the SWCRR and the only places to go for most journeys are north on Sarcee or east on Glenmore, I assume some changes will be considered.

It was included in the long ago plan, but I think it was taken out when the access through city yards to West Hills was added instead.

[Ferreth]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

The SW ring road project's scope appears to have been changed.

The SW leg now includes some of what was meant to be part of the West leg; The SW leg will now continue west along Highway 8 to 101st street (and on to Lotts Creek Blvd), and now includes the 69th street interchange and the replacement bridges over the elbow river west of the City.

I assume that this means that the west leg will continue to be delayed.

These additions will help Sarcee a bit by diverting some traffic heading for the Signal Hill, Springbank, Strathcona & Aspen Woods onto 69th St. 69th will need a some upgrades (remove the remaining 4 way stops). The city should keep Sarcee improvements minimal, ideally to what will be needed after the rest of the ring road is built. Hopefully the dollars can be found to shorten the gap between West RR and SW RR opening, because anything other than a full freeway build out on Sarcee is not going to make much difference to the cluster that area is going to be post SWRR opening.

Crowchild Trail is IMO the worst traffic problem the city currently faces, I worry more about that and wish for the city to divert dollars there as opposed to trying to save Sarcee which is already sunk. At least the west leg is in the cards. There is no relief in sight for Crowchild.

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by Acey

Crowchild Trail is IMO the worst traffic problem the city currently faces, I worry more about that and wish for the city to divert dollars there as opposed to trying to save Sarcee which is already sunk. At least the west leg is in the cards. There is no relief in sight for Crowchild.

I would prefer they keep Crowchild the similar capacity/speed with tweaks to improve reliability (realign most ramps in the Bow Trail-Memorial Drive cluster, add additional through lanes on the fly-over Bow Trail to avoid weaving). We can't build some sort of monster freeway that expropriates 100s of homes, nor can we afford to bury the whole mess it seems.

There doesn't seem to be any good answers for 5th / Kensington Road. Interchanges would require enormous expropriations and further sever the inner city with a highway canyon. Perhaps 5th & Kensington can just be bridges with no access / Crowchild sunk below? That significantly improves east-west traffic / transit, while keeping Crowchilders from spilling into the other areas. Memorial Drive can remain open for East-west, although I would rather see Memorial de-expressified for the majority of it's route with more controlled crossings and intersections than less (apart from the grade separation at Crowchild). Not sure if these ideas are very compatible.

Perhaps when the West ring road is open, taking the dozen or so maligned Tuscany to Seton commuters off of Crow and a bit of intra-city truck traffic will help? As it stands now, I don't think it will have any impact on demand for space in Crowchild.

[lineman]

Crowchild in the choke area isn't even that bad. I'll take that without hesitation over what Vancouver goes through on a daily basis.

The 10 Ave/Crow/Memorial movement is the only real goofy thing about that area.

Well yeah, but we're not Vancouver; my point still stands that it is the worst choke point in Calgary and is a $1B fix.

[Bassic Lab]

Originally Posted by MasterG

I would prefer they keep Crowchild the similar capacity/speed with tweaks to improve reliability (realign most ramps in the Bow Trail-Memorial Drive cluster, add additional through lanes on the fly-over Bow Trail to avoid weaving). We can't build some sort of monster freeway that expropriates 100s of homes, nor can we afford to bury the whole mess it seems.

There doesn't seem to be any good answers for 5th / Kensington Road. Interchanges would require enormous expropriations and further sever the inner city with a highway canyon. Perhaps 5th & Kensington can just be bridges with no access / Crowchild sunk below? That significantly improves east-west traffic / transit, while keeping Crowchilders from spilling into the other areas. Memorial Drive can remain open for East-west, although I would rather see Memorial de-expressified for the majority of it's route with more controlled crossings and intersections than less (apart from the grade separation at Crowchild). Not sure if these ideas are very compatible.

Perhaps when the West ring road is open, taking the dozen or so maligned Tuscany to Seton commuters off of Crow and a bit of intra-city truck traffic will help? As it stands now, I don't think it will have any impact on demand for space in Crowchild.

I could see a Ring Road-Anderson-Deerfoot-24 ST/Barlow commute looking pretty attractive to a lot of people who are currently doing Crowchild-Glenmore. I just don't know if Anderson and Deerfoot have enough capacity to make a difference when you consider the amount of development going into Quarry Park.

[lineman]

Originally Posted by Acey

Well yeah, but we're not Vancouver; my point still stands that it is the worst choke point in Calgary and is a $1B fix.

Exactly. We are not Vancouver. We have nowhere near their levels of congestion issues.

This why I don't see it as a priority.

Just because we don't have horrendous traffic issues doesn't mean we shouldn't neglect the ones that we do have. One through lane over the river on NB Crowchild is going to become a Vancouver-sized problem if you do nothing.

[sim]

Originally Posted by Acey

Just because we don't have horrendous traffic issues doesn't mean we shouldn't neglect the ones that we do have. One through lane over the river on NB Crowchild is going to become a Vancouver-sized problem if you do nothing.

And yet Vancouver is the only large North American city to have reversed the trend of ever increasing travel times. Seems they don't actually have a issues. Well, except for perhaps that colossal boondoggle called the Port Mann bridge and their vote against self-interest about two weeks ago.

[Socguy]

Originally Posted by Acey

Crowchild Trail is IMO the worst traffic problem the city currently faces, I worry more about that and wish for the city to divert dollars there as opposed to trying to save Sarcee which is already sunk. At least the west leg is in the cards. There is no relief in sight for Crowchild.

The cheapest way to get some relief of Crowchild is to fix Sarcee.

If Sarcee was free flow from Glenmore to 16th more people would prefer it as their primary route from the SW to the NW.

Of course, once the SWRR opens, Sarcee, Crowchild, Glenmore, 69th street are all screwed.

[craner]

I'm with Acey - gotta fix Crowchild, and do it properly.

[H.E.Pennypacker]

Originally Posted by Acey

Just because we don't have horrendous traffic issues doesn't mean we shouldn't neglect the ones that we do have. One through lane over the river on NB Crowchild is going to become a Vancouver-sized problem if you do nothing.

Originally Posted by craner

I'm with Acey - gotta fix Crowchild, and do it properly.

I agree as well - particularly in the long term if the City is looking at redeveloping the West Village (arena or not) the flow in that section of Crowchild needs to be addressed.

Additionally with the SWRR going in, the interchange at Glenmore/Crowchild needs an overhaul .. So I hope that changes to that interchange with the development of the SWRR will lead the City to look towards fixing Crowchild/Bow Tr

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by craner

I'm with Acey - gotta fix Crowchild, and do it properly.

What does doing it properly look like?

Originally Posted by sim

And yet Vancouver is the only large North American city to have reversed the trend of ever increasing travel times. Seems they don't actually have a issues. Well, except for perhaps that colossal boondoggle called the Port Mann bridge and their vote against self-interest about two weeks ago.

See, I know nothing of the particulars regarding Vancouver's traffic situation which is why I didn't originally mention it. I'm not saying do a full Big Dig style build and make Crowchild 4 lanes each each way from Glenmore to Cochrane... All I know is what goes in Calgary, and I identify Crowchild as (in my opinion) the city's biggest traffic problem given that Deerfoot is a provincial road. Any goings-on in Vancouver are irrelevant to this statement, especially because I did not identify the type of budget I think should be spent fixing Crowchild.

As for what a fix might look like, an in-depth study by the city is underway, is it not? That's for them to figure out... all I know is that one lane over the river sucks and we should do something about it and even in this dream society people on this board live in where everybody uses transit and roads are never improved, one lane northbound out of your downtown can't possibly be acceptable going forward.

Originally Posted by Socguy

The cheapest way to get some relief of Crowchild is to fix Sarcee.

True, but you'd then have to make Bow Trail freeflow to Sarcee to maximize that relief from the perspective of people downtown trying to get NW.