Cities that belong in other states

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

Philadelphia is the quintessential city of Pennsylvania. Literally founded by the man who the state takes it's name from. Allentown, the third largest city in PA, is named after a former mayor of Philadelphia. The Pennsylvania Railroad, once the world's largest corporation, was HQ'd at the heart of Philadelphia. You can go to reading terminal market every day and buy goods made by the Amish.

Pittsburgher's have this bizarre tendency to downplay Philadelphia as "less PA" because it's far away from them. Well given how many more people live in the eastern part of the state, Pittsburgh might as well be merged into West Virginia or Ohio. Where do you think Milton Hershey first started his candy career? What about PNC? Or Sunoco? C'mon now.
It also gives me the opportunity to share the popular PA version of the mad men meme lol

So you're touting Philadelphia's influence on the rest of PA.... well, yeah we're all well aware of that strong influence... and it also has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

The topic is in fact the opposite. Philadelphia is not nearly as strongly influenced by the rest of PA as it is by NY/NJ... but keep telling us about buying Amish goods at Reading Terminal, that's real cute. Great contribution. Oh yeah, and almost forgot, lol.

Stick to the social media apps. We're grown ups on here (sometimes).

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by pj3000

So you're touting Philadelphia's influence on the rest of PA.... well, yeah we're all well aware of that strong influence... and it also has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

The topic is in fact the opposite. Philadelphia is not nearly as strongly influenced by the rest of PA as it is by NY/NJ... but keep telling us about buying Amish goods at Reading Terminal, that's real cute. Oh yeah, and almost forgot, lol.

Stick to the social media apps. We're grown ups on here (sometimes).

Feel free to provide an actual rebuttal. Philadelphia is influenced by Harrisburg, the Leigh Valley, and other closer population centers, while at the same time having far deeper historical connections to most of PA through the railroads. It's comical to suggest otherwise.

Like PennDot controls the major roads in Philadelphia. The minimum wage is $7.25 in Philadelphia. There's no legal weed. Shapiro is our governor. Where do you think most politicians in PA come from? I wonder where he's spent most of his life? I made an actual rebuttal and you replied with an embarrassingly juvenile response.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Stating that Philadelphia is "tilted toward the PA side", how?

Maybe tilted to itself... meaning that the city is tilted more to its own in-state suburban "collar" counties (Delaware, Montgomery, Bucks, part of Chester) than it is to its NJ counterparts, sure, I'll agree there. But certainly not more tilted to eastern PA towns like you mention out to Harrisburg, etc. than it is to NJ/NY. As I mentioned above, there is no way that Philly somehow experiences more of a pull to York or Chambersburg or Harrisburg or Hershey than it experiences from NJ/NY. Philadelphia by and large looks to the east, not to the west.

Towns in the southeastern quad of PA looking like "little Philadelphias" really has nothing to do with the topic. It's not as if those towns influenced Philadelphia to become the way it is -- the opposite is true.

All big cities/metros will be self-absorbed, though. But the PA side of the Philly suburbs have way more population than the NJ side. In NY metro, the NJ side is the biggest concentration of population in the metro area, hence why New Jersey gets so much attention around here. I think NYC is the only city besides DC where a majority of the suburban residents live in another state.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

Feel free to provide an actual rebuttal. Philadelphia is influenced by Harrisburg, the Leigh Valley, and other closer population centers, while at the same time having far deeper historical connections to most of PA through the railroads. It's comical to suggest otherwise.

Like PennDot controls the major roads in Philadelphia. The minimum wage is $7.25 in Philadelphia. There's no legal weed. Shapiro is our governor. Where do you think most politicians in PA come from? I wonder where he's spent most of his life? I made an actual rebuttal and you replied with an embarrassingly juvenile response.

It's time for one of two things for you:

1) Time for you to go to bed
2) Time for you to go back to the city-data forum

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by pj3000

It's time for one of two things for you:

1) Time for you to go to bed
2) Time for you to go back to the city-data forum

I have been contributing to this site for a decade (have you ever posted a single piece of info or photo before in a construction thread?), but okay big guy, thanks for showing everyone the type of person you are. All because I suggested PA is the quintessential city in PA (it is! lol)

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

All big cities/metros will be self-absorbed, though. But the PA side of the Philly suburbs have way more population than the NJ side. In NY metro, the NJ side is the biggest concentration of population in the metro area, hence why New Jersey gets so much attention around here. I think NYC is the only city besides DC where a majority of the suburban residents live in another state.

True. And I'm just saying that Philadelphia (and its suburbs) are more strongly influenced by and more close culturally ("culturally speaking", as Cirrus stated to start the thread) with an outside state and city/metro (in this case NJ and NYC) than by its own state of PA.

The fact is, most of Pennsylvania has very little influence on Philadelphia culturally and Philadelphia does not shape the culture of most of Pennsylvania. Like I said at the beginning, it's akin to NYC with New York state on a smaller scale.

NYC area is its own self-absorbed thing in NY, like Philly is to a smaller extent in PA. But NYC/NJ has no superior nearby to exert much cultural influence on it... Philly on the other hand obviously does with NYC/NJ being that superior and Philly feels the effects of the nation's lone true alpha strongly.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

I have been contributing to this site for a decade (have you ever posted a single piece of info or photo before in a construction thread?), but okay big guy, thanks for showing everyone the type of person you are. All because I suggested PA is the quintessential city in PA (it is! lol)

This is not a city vs. city thing. Stop trying to make it into that. No one is trashing Philadelphia. We all like Philadelphia and fully agree that it is the primate, top, best, #1, quintessential, etc. city in PA. I said in my first post that "Philadelphia is the very reason for the state of Pennsylvania's existence". No one at any time has argued otherwise.

You wanna turn an informed and interesting discussion into junk? Well, there's places other than here to do that.

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by pj3000

You wanna turn an informed and interesting discussion into junk? Well, there's places other than here to do that.

^this guy immediately goes straight for the personal shots and then tries to gaslight his way out of it. Nah, you aren't right and were wrong, sorry the answer got you all worked up

[MayDay]

Maybe not another state, but I remember a quote from a mayoral debate almost 25 years ago. This was in response to the question “What would you do to improve the state of things in Cleveland and northeast Ohio?”

The candidate said bluntly and only somewhat jokingly “secede from the state of Ohio.”

Given how the state politics are run by a blatantly corrupt GOP supermajority who care little and in many cases are flat out hostile about the urban areas that power the state’s economy, it still seems like a good idea.

[jbermingham123]

Having grown up in Montana, I've always thought Billings, which is quite far removed from all the other major Montana cities and the only one not surrounded by mountains on at least 3 sides, should actually be the capital of Wyoming.

And respectively, Cheyenne (and southern WY in general) really belongs in Colorado. Essentially, The entire state of Wyoming should be shifted north about 80 miles

While theyre at it, they should also shift it about 80 miles east, which would line the eastern and western borders up with Colorado's and give the Tetons and Yellowstone to Idaho, where they belong, and the Black Hills (which are geologically an isolated range of the rockies) and Rapid City to Wyoming.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

^this guy immediately goes straight for the personal shots and then tries to gaslight his way out of it. Nah, you aren't right and were wrong, sorry the answer got you all worked up

You came into the thread posting off-topic stuff... bringing up Pittsburgh (which no one else was talking about) and suggesting that Philadelphia was somehow being trashed as "less PA" (when it wasn't at all), and then adding a great meme that maybe tries to skew something towards city vs. city:

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

Pittsburgher's have this bizarre tendency to downplay Philadelphia as "less PA" because it's far away from them. Well given how many more people live in the eastern part of the state, Pittsburgh might as well be merged into West Virginia or Ohio. Where do you think Milton Hershey first started his candy career? What about PNC? Or Sunoco? C'mon now.
It also gives me the opportunity to share the popular PA version of the mad men meme lol

And just to answer your above questions for the good of our factual forum:

Where do you think Milton Hershey first started his candy career?
- Philadelphia in 1876

What about PNC?
- Pittsburgh in 1845

Or Sunoco?
- Pittsburgh in 1886

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by pj3000

And just to answer your above questions for the good of our factual forum:

Where do you think Milton Hershey first started his candy career?
- Philadelphia in 1876

What about PNC?
- Pittsburgh in 1845

Or Sunoco?
- Pittsburgh in 1886

Thank you for addressing my points. But my point was not about the founding but how they've been influential in Philadelphia. PNC being a merger of provident national corporation and subsequently making PNC one of the top 2 banks in the metro. Sunoco being founded in Pittsburgh but operating a lot of their operations in Philadelphia. Philadelphia only ever became the 'workshop of the world' because of the raw materials coming down the canals and rivers from the hundreds of towns upstream (just like Pittsburgh). Point being: philadelphia only exists as one of the biggest cities in America because it's the place the Pennsylvanian's have always met and traded ideas, materials, and culture. Hershey wasn't from Philadelphia, but that's where he went to make his name and spread his influence.

And I only posted that meme for two reasons: someone posted the IL version the other day and I had the PA version on my mind and you were doubling down on points that didn't make a lot of sense to me.

[edale]

Not to shift gears from this delightful Philly drama, but I think a case could be made for Cincinnati belonging in Kentucky, or at least not belonging in Ohio. The airport is already in NKY, as is about a quarter of the metro population. It's pretty widely acknowledged that Cincinnatians don't really pay attention to the rest of Ohio, with the exception of Dayton, which is nearly a merged metro with Cincy at this point. I think it goes both ways, too. The rest of Ohio doesn't really care or think about Cincinnati, and you'll often see people from other Ohio cities try call it a Kentucky city to try to deride it. One easy example that demonstrates this is that Ohio State is a real non-entity in Cincinnati, with many people actually having a strong dislike for all things OSU (rooted in some truly delusional "rivalry" with the University of Cincinnati, I think?), while the rest of the state (minus Toledo) is diehard Buckeye fan country. Another example is that it seems like half of Columbus is originally from Cleveland or NE Ohio, while relatively few Cincinnatians move there. Cincinnati is generally a pretty insular city, but it also feels different than other Ohio cities. From the hyper-local food obsessions (chili, goetta), to the hilly topography, to the unique vernacular architecture... it does feel different from other parts of Ohio, and from what people tend to associate with Ohio.

However, that's not to say that people in greater Cincinnati look to Kentucky for influence, either. Many Cincinnatians truly think of the "tri-state area" of SW Ohio, Northern Kentucky, and the little sliver of SE Indiana as being its own thing. I guess that belies the idea that Cincinnati 'belongs' in Kentucky, but I still feel like Cincinnati could be severed from Ohio, and no one would really notice or care.

[ThatDarnSacramentan]

Originally Posted by pdxtex

Savannah is like New Orleans' long lost cousin. Portland should just admit it wants to be like California and ask to be annexed. Seattle is find where it is an is satisfied being the Boston of the west.

It's interesting you'd connect Seattle to Boston as its West Coast counterpart, because in my years of living in both Seattle and Portland, it feels much more that Portland is Boston and Seattle is New York. When I lived in Seattle, almost everyone who came to visit me would remark how much Seattle reminded them of New York (not physically or geographically, of course, but the general "vibe" and culture). That's not really scientific at all, of course. I do think that perhaps there's something to be said about the DNA of both cities based on which American settlers built each place up. For Portland, that was New Englanders, and Seattle, the Terry Brothers who had joined up with the Dennys were from New York (perhaps also worth adding that they named their first site, at present Alki Beach, New York).

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by UrbanRevival

I really don't think that's accurate, not at least amongst any Philadelphian I've met. I think this really gets to more of the quintessential "East vs. West" divide in PA.

And it's not as though New Jersey itself is homogenous; there's very distinct different between North and South Jersey. If anything, "Piedmont PA"--which encompasses the Philly area, the Lehigh Valley, and South-Central PA--really forms its own distinctive region, economically, demographically and politically.

I agree with this. Why would the economic power of the state cede it to some rednecks? CUlturally, politically, and economically, the most relevant areas of PA are south and east of I80. I just spent half the week in Altoona for work and took Amtrak to and from Philly. The feel of the state changes immediately after Harrisburg...from organized, scenic, and affluent to borderline despair. I don't know why the disparity...maybe its some cultural Appalachian baggage. Who knows. But it was depressing.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Originally Posted by edale

Not to shift gears from this delightful Philly drama, but I think a case could be made for Cincinnati belonging in Kentucky, or at least not belonging in Ohio. The airport is already in NKY, as is about a quarter of the metro population. It's pretty widely acknowledged that Cincinnatians don't really pay attention to the rest of Ohio, with the exception of Dayton, which is nearly a merged metro with Cincy at this point. I think it goes both ways, too. The rest of Ohio doesn't really care or think about Cincinnati, and you'll often see people from other Ohio cities try call it a Kentucky city to try to deride it. One easy example that demonstrates this is that Ohio State is a real non-entity in Cincinnati, with many people actually having a strong dislike for all things OSU (rooted in some truly delusional "rivalry" with the University of Cincinnati, I think?), while the rest of the state (minus Toledo) is diehard Buckeye fan country. Another example is that it seems like half of Columbus is originally from Cleveland or NE Ohio, while relatively few Cincinnatians move there. Cincinnati is generally a pretty insular city, but it also feels different than other Ohio cities. From the hyper-local food obsessions (chili, goetta), to the hilly topography, to the unique vernacular architecture... it does feel different from other parts of Ohio, and from what people tend to associate with Ohio.

However, that's not to say that people in greater Cincinnati look to Kentucky for influence, either. Many Cincinnatians truly think of the "tri-state area" of SW Ohio, Northern Kentucky, and the little sliver of SE Indiana as being its own thing. I guess that belies the idea that Cincinnati 'belongs' in Kentucky, but I still feel like Cincinnati could be severed from Ohio, and no one would really notice or care.

Honestly surprised it took until page three before anyone mentioned Cincitucky, but everything within 275 could form its own state and hardly anyone from Ohio, Kentucky, or Indiana would notice a difference.

The anti-Ohio State thing was always odd to me (look at my username for chrissake) but I have family that lives in Columbus, graduated from and work at Ohio State. The most anti-Ohio State people in my family are UC grads who live in, you guessed it, Kentucky

Also, until my family moved to Arizona, my mom's sister committed the unforgivable sin of moving to Columbus from Cincinnati and not returning after college.

[jbermingham123]

Originally Posted by ThatDarnSacramentan

It's interesting you'd connect Seattle to Boston as its West Coast counterpart, because in my years of living in both Seattle and Portland, it feels much more that Portland is Boston and Seattle is New York. When I lived in Seattle, almost everyone who came to visit me would remark how much Seattle reminded them of New York (not physically or geographically, of course, but the general "vibe" and culture). That's not really scientific at all, of course. I do think that perhaps there's something to be said about the DNA of both cities based on which American settlers built each place up. For Portland, that was New Englanders, and Seattle, the Terry Brothers who had joined up with the Dennys were from New York (perhaps also worth adding that they named their first site, at present Alki Beach, New York).

As someone who previously lived in Boston (and Worcester and Provdence) who now lives in Seattle, I Completely agree with this.

Boston, despite its status as a large city (by US standards) and its global academic prowess, is quite stunningly provincial in its actual culture and vibe, due to a massive brain drain problem. People who go to school in Boston, particularly at the big 4, almost NEVER stay there. If youre in tech, you aspire to be in SF, Seattle, Austin, or maybe NYC. If youre in finance, you aspire to NYC. If youre in the arts, NYC or LA.

The only place Boston excels is in biotech, but the only reason is that biotech is a new field, and is still tightly coupled to academic research. Historically, successful companies –and even entire industries– always end up leaving Boston. People forget that all of the major innovations that led to Silicon Valley happened in Boston and New York.




Thus, outside of academia, Boston is actually pretty boring. It reminds me a lot of St. Louis, where I also lived on and off for about 10 years, and which also has a top tier university with a huge biotech presence. Basically, if youre not a PhD doing research, what will you do there? What really is there for you that wouldnt be better elsewhere?

Seattle, like NYC, has its fair share of reseach, but has an absolutely enormous amount of industry employment. Microsoft, Amazon, SpaceX, and Google, and Boeing have most of their workforce or (in regard to the latter 3) a lot of senior engineers here. There are also a lot of quantum computing and fusion energy start ups here, which, i should note, are made up almost entirely of people who left Boston.

[Quixote]

I agree with pj3000. The fact that Allentown was and Mercer and Ocean Counties are part of the NYC CSA shows just how much NYC encroaches on territory that would ordinarily belong to Philly, which naturally puts Philly on the defensive. Also telling is the mention of South Jersey when people explain the Philly accept and how it differs from the NYC accent. Being in PA does seem pretty inconsequential. Heck, I think even DE (where Wilmington is) makes more sense culturally.

[L41A]

The north Florida city that is more like the adjacent area of Georgia is Tallahassee.
Jacksonville is more Florida than Georgia in many ways. While the synergy between Tallahassee and SW Georgia is much stronger.

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

This is a good topic though thank god Jacksonville isn't in Georgia. Jacksonville is in the state in which it belongs, which continues to go back in time, while Georgia is moving forward.

The other two seem spot on.

[AviationGuy]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

One might argue that culturally speaking,

• Jacksonville belongs in Georgia
• Toledo belongs in Michigan
• El Paso belongs in New Mexico

What else? What cities feel like they're in the wrong state?

I was thinking El Paso belongs in Arizona, with its mountain-desert topography. Reminds me of Tucson with the interstate running through it, heavy traffic, Hispanic population, high level of affluence at the higher elevations, and poverty at lower elevations. However, Tucson is not right on the border, and El Paso doesn't have nearby snow skiing like Tucson does. I guess one could substitute Albuquerque for Tucson, but El Paso doesn't feel like Albuquerque, and to me feels more like Tucson.