Scarborough RT conversion to LRT

[Xrayal]

For Sale in 2015: 28 Used Mark I Cars

[Xrayal]

Input sought on Scarborough RT conversion plan

Environmental report for change and expansion proposal now available to public

With the environmental report for the Scarborough RT now available for comment, one local councillor is encouraging people to have their say, especially if that say is thank you.

"I'm encouraging people to respond positively to say to the provincial government, 'Yes, thank you. We'd like some'," said Scarborough Centre Councillor Glenn De Baeremaeker.

"I'll be writing a letter to the government saying thank you very much for investing in Scarborough."

The City of Toronto and Toronto Transit Commission have completed the environmental project report for the SRT conversion and extension project, which is part of the Transit City program being funded by the province.

The report is now available for a 30-day review period, which began Aug. 4. It is accessible online at www.toronto.ca/transitcity or at Toronto City Hall, the Scarborough Civic Centre or the Kennedy/Eglinton, McGregor Park and Burrows Hall branches of the Toronto Public Library.

The project will see the 25-year-old SRT line converted to an LRT line and extended from McCowan Road to Sheppard Avenue, just east of Progress Avenue, with two additional stops: one at Centennial College and the other at Sheppard.

The original time line for the project was for work to begin in 2012 and service in 2016, but due to funding constraints at the province the time line has been moved back with construction now to begin in the later half of 2015 with a completion date at the end of 2020.

For some it is frustrating that the report is complete, but work won't get underway for more than five years.

"There are some people disappointed that it's going to take longer to get done, but when the provincial government gives you a $1 billion present you should still be happy," De Baeremaeker said.

"Would I like everything tomorrow? Yes, but being a mature adult sometimes you have to live within your financial means."

De Baeremaeker is choosing to look at the situation optimistically.

"Yes, I know (the SRT) is 25 years old and it's very crowded...but we're luckier than the people who live north of the 401 who have nothing," he said, adding the investment is coming, just a little later.

In the meantime De Baeremaeker and other Scarborough councillors will continue to push for stations at Brimley and Bellamy roads.

"I'm still going to advocate for additional benefits, but this is a big gift they've given us," De Baeremaeker said.

DANIELLE MILLEY
Aug 07, 2010 - 7:30 AM
InsideToronto.com

[Zassk]

Surely those MKI's are useless to Translink... They are what, 35 years old, and have no automation controllers? I bet it would be cheaper to buy 16 new MKII cars instead of overhauling those old Scarborough cars.

[Millennium2002]

Technically the cars should be automated... just that the unions insisted in placing an operator in there.
I do agree though, unless we're desperate for more cars at cheap prices (which seems unlikely) they'll probably not be worth looking at.

[nname]

Hmm... conversion of 6.5km of track, plus a 3km extension... and it cost 2.5 billions...

Millennium Line extension underground all the way to UBC seems like a bargin now...

[Alex Mackinnon]

Those might not the best thing to expand our fleet with, but they may well be a good source of cheap re-manufactured parts though.

[Kwik-E-Mart]

Oh well. Toronto's pain has apparently become Vancouver's gain as many in the East still insist the whole point of the RT was to get the Bennett government into using ART in Vancouver.

It's not surprising to see TTC making the switch as the sharp turn at Kennedy Station pretty much sealed the fate of ART in Toronto, despite Giambrone insisting on purchasing Mk-IIs to replace the aging Mk-I fleet two years ago.

Back to waiting for the first 3- or 4-car Mk-IIs to arrive...

[red-paladin]

Now I could be wrong again. I thought that the SRT line was built for LRT, and was changed to ART at the last moment. I read that the Mk I trains were built to fit that guideway, as it was already constructed. Then when they built the expo line, they built it to be able to handle the Mk II size trains, as they were already aware that Mk I was smaller than ideal. However, this means that while our lines were built to accommodate Mk II trains, SRT line can't handle them, as Mk I was already the max that would work there. So they really had no option to convert to LRT, unless they wanted to buy our old trains.

[en2]

Originally Posted by Zassk

Surely those MKI's are useless to Translink... They are what, 35 years old, and have no automation controllers? I bet it would be cheaper to buy 16 new MKII cars instead of overhauling those old Scarborough cars.

I think they could easily just install the ATC equipment in them since they are all supplied by Thales anyways for both the Mark I, II and the Rotem trains.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by en2

I think they could easily just install the ATC equipment in them since they are all supplied by Thales anyways for both the Mark I, II and the Rotem trains.

Investing more on aging infrastructure? No thanks.

[LeftCoaster]

If the price was right then sure.

I dont think Scarborogh RT can sell these things for much more than scrap otherwise, so if you can pick up a handful of trains for next to nothing then I dont see why not. If they last a few years then we sell them for scrap I could see them being cost effective.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

If the price was right then sure.

I dont think Scarborogh RT can sell these things for much more than scrap otherwise, so if you can pick up a handful of trains for next to nothing then I dont see why not. If they last a few years then we sell them for scrap I could see them being cost effective.

Yep.. sounds like a good way to trim budget from the Evergreen line and get away with not buying any cars for it for at least 5 years. At a time when budgets are super tight, this idea makes too much sense for government..

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Zassk

Surely those MKI's are useless to Translink... They are what, 35 years old, and have no automation controllers? I bet it would be cheaper to buy 16 new MKII cars instead of overhauling those old Scarborough cars.

They have automation controllers, they just always have an attendant on it to press the open doors, close doors, move to next station buttons. Pretty stupid on their part.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

They have automation controllers, they just always have an attendant on it to press the open doors, close doors, move to next station buttons. Pretty stupid on their part.

You can blame the union on that.

[BurnabyAaron]

Would this be 28 married pairs (14 trains running 4 cars) or 28 Cars total (7 trains).

This seems like a very cost effective way to add onto our current fleet and expand more of the old Mark Is into 6 car trains.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by BurnabyAaron

Would this be 28 married pairs (14 trains running 4 cars) or 28 Cars total (7 trains).

This seems like a very cost effective way to add onto our current fleet and expand more of the old Mark Is into 6 car trains.

Color me skeptical...

If it costs say $300,000 to refit the controllers and OMC, and $200,000 to refurbish the interior and exterior of each car...

...then you've just spent $14 million dollars on train cars that only have a life expectancy of 10 years and hold 85 passengers each.

For that same $14 million, you could order 4 brand new MKII cars that would last 40-50 years.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Zassk

For that same $14 million, you could order 4 brand new MKII cars that would last 40-50 years.

Well... maybe.... if they were part of a much larger order.

[tybuilding]

Spare parts sounds like a good plan

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by tybuilding

Spare parts sounds like a good plan

Agreed.

It's likely the cars will be given away either at scrap prices or for $1.

BC will have to pay for the transportation of said cars.

We will use some for parts, the rest for scrap.

That's my guess.

[BurnabyAaron]

Originally Posted by Zassk

Color me skeptical...

If it costs say $300,000 to refit the controllers and OMC, and $200,000 to refurbish the interior and exterior of each car...

...then you've just spent $14 million dollars on train cars that only have a life expectancy of 10 years and hold 85 passengers each.

For that same $14 million, you could order 4 brand new MKII cars that would last 40-50 years.

28 Cars that carry 85 Passengers each is 2380 in additional Capacity.
4 Mark IIs is only 580.

28 Cars for 10 years is a total of 280 years of combined Operation Time. (I will say 7 trains would only be 70 years...)
4 Cars for 50....200 years. (and 1 Train for 50)

Personally I would rather have the Mark IIs, way more comfortable. But with Translink broke this would definitely be a cost effective way of adding short term capacity.

This option won't even be available until after the completion of the Evergreen line, and maybe we will need the increased capacity by then.