Speech pattern and typographical variations across Canada

[kwoldtimer]

The author seems to suggest that we're moving toward both "thenk" and "thahnk". On the one hand, "thahnk" brings to mind Martin Short's "Franck the wedding planner" and I can't say I've ever noticed it. On the other, "thenk" is old news - over forty years ago, I had a professor (a Belgian) tell us that he loved it when someone announced "Mr Smith to checkout sex" at the local (Waterloo) supermarket!

[rousseau]

Fascinating article, thanks. I've noticed that the old Canadian "sore-y" has been giving way to a more American "saw-ry" for a while now. But I haven't really heard the shift from "slipped" to "slept." Now I'll be watching out for that.

Two points of correction to the article:

Meanwhile, the shift is distinguishing Canada even more from the U.S., where an estimated 34 million people around the Great Lakes Region are showing an opposite change called the Northern Cities Vowel Shift. There, God is becoming “gad,” “Dan” is becoming “din,” “slipped” is getting closer to “slapped,” and “sorry” more like “sarry.”

The Northern Cities Vowel Shift has been a done deal for well over forty years. It's not currently happening; it happened a long time ago. And "Dan" sounds nothing like "din," but rather, "day-an."

In Buffalo "hot" is "hat," and "hat" is "hay-at." You can hear it in the words "cash" and "bad" from the girl on the right in this video. Skip to 1:35:

• Video Link

[kwoldtimer]

It would be interesting to know to what extent, if any, these vowel shifts are pan-Canadian, and to what extent they are shared with parts of the USA. Ontario as part of the broader Great Lakes region, for example.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

It would be interesting to know to what extent, if any, these vowel shifts are pan-Canadian, and to what extent they are shared with parts of the USA. Ontario as part of the broader Great Lakes region, for example.

It's even taking place in Newfoundland, it's the American cultural influence taking over. It's strange how it interacts with regional dialects, but without destroying them.

[Razor]

Until I read that article, I never really gave it much thought on how dialects and accents are not static and really do change over time.

So with all things being equal, NA will one day have their own version of old English or old French which is essentially todays speech pattern. Old Newfoundland or Ontario speak will be a thing.
Generations from now people may try to mimic an old Bronx or Boston accent for kicks in a future acting class. Even today's Eubonics will be spoken in a period movie.

It really is fascinating to think about how our speech will naturally change. I suspect we Canadians will never fully give up our "eh's" though. Ditto for some American regions and their " y'alls"

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Razor

Until I read that article, I never really gave it much thought on how dialects and accents are not static and really do change over time.

So with all things being equal, NA will one day have their own version of old English or old French which is essentially todays speech pattern. Old Newfoundland or Ontario speak will be a thing.
Generations from now may try to mimic an old Bronx or Boston accent for kicks in a future acting class. Even today's Eubonics will be spoken in a period movie.

It really is fascinating to think about how our speech will naturally change. I suspect we Canadians will never fully give up our "eh's" though. Ditto for some American regions and their " y'alls"

"Eh" has been in decline for years, has it not?

[GlassCity]

"Eh" seems to be a point of embarassment for a lot of people it seems ("We actually almost never say eh!!!!") but I hear it, and say it, all the time.

[rousseau]

I don't think I say it that often, but I do notice it when people around me say it. And I always think to myself: sheesh, what a hoser. But in wonder, not disparagingly. I used to think it was embarrassing, a hokey reminder of Canuck provincialism, but I'm older now, and I just think it's quaint.

Plus I think it's a really natural thing to say for certain situations. It adds a pleasing deference and gentleness to a question that is rhetorical but still open to uncertainty: "So you like that, eh?" instead of the American "You like that, huh" or the direct interrogative "Do you like that?"

It's deeply rooted in a classically Canadian mindset, in other words. Which is probably evolving into something different, I imagine.

Though I have a bit less patience for it when it gets repeated too much in otherwise straightforward declarative sentences. "We were goin' to the store, eh, and this guy comes up to us, eh, and says, like, you can't park there, eh, that's not store property." That's Bob and Doug territory, and it seems to be dying out.

[GlassCity]

I don't understand what would make it provincial. Just because only we do it doesn't make it provincial (but I get that that's not how you think). I see it as a distinct feature of Canadian identity in a time where we gradually lose more and more of our small distinctions. I think it's important to be proud of and to hold on to.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I don't understand what would make it provincial. Just because only we do it doesn't make it provincial (but I get that that's not how you think). I see it as a distinct feature of Canadian identity in a time where we gradually lose more and more of our small distinctions. I think it's important to be proud of and to hold on to.

A distinct feature of the lower class/less educated Canadian identity, I would have said.

[wg_flamip]

I came across this article in the Globe the other day. It outlines how elements from Patois and Caribbean English dialects have entered the Toronto vernacular and documents the mixed feelings this has stirred up.

Di soun in di city
By: Dakshana Bascaramurty
The Globe and Mail
August 4, 2017

After decades of West Indian immigration to the GTA, patois-peppered English has begun to feel like a distinctively Toronto thing. But the original speakers are undecided whether it’s a tribute or a travesty.

[...]

Caribbean culture has become so influential in the city that bits of the patois language and the accent that goes with it have filtered down to much of the rest of the population, including Drake, creating what both linguists and visitors to the city notice as a very distinctly suburban Toronto sound. South Asians in Mississauga respond to questions with ahlie as an affirmation or to state skepticism. Croatians in Malvern will say from time in reference to something that happened long ago. Somalis in Rexdale will greet each other with a wah gwan? rather than asking what’s up.

English is Jamaica’s official language, but patois (or Jamaican Creole as it’s called by linguists) is widely spoken. It’s its own distinct language, not just a dialect, and draws influence from English primarily but also Spanish and West African languages.

For some native speakers and their children, the popularization of their language stirs up complicated feelings. Some see this as a positive evolution: a sign of the reach of reggae and dance hall culture around the world. Others, meanwhile, complain it’s used mockingly, or is just another example of appropriation – when outsiders adopt a language that has made its native speakers the targets of discrimination.

[Loco101]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4MQnmQdsb4

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I don't understand what would make it provincial. Just because only we do it doesn't make it provincial (but I get that that's not how you think). I see it as a distinct feature of Canadian identity in a time where we gradually lose more and more of our small distinctions. I think it's important to be proud of and to hold on to.

Well, I am not an Anglo-Canadian nationalist by any stretch, but I'd take "eh" over "huh" any day. "Huh" just sounds dumb and clueless to me.

[wg_flamip]

I don't think this has been posted yet.

• Video Link

[kwoldtimer]

You know you're close to the bottom when they have to provide subtitles in standard English.

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by rousseau

In Buffalo "hot" is "hat," and "hat" is "hay-at." You can hear it in the words "cash" and "bad" from the girl on the right in this video. Skip to 1:35:

• Video Link

I never understood how people in Western New York have such a strange accent compared to the rest of the state which sounds very similar to most of English Canada(minus a few New York boroughs). I recall going there and asking somebody on Grand Island where the nearest grocery store was.


She gave me directions to Tayaps!
source: https://tops-secure-graphics.grocerywebsite.com

[rousseau]

Here's one. Don't think about it, just go with your instinctive reaction. What do you say when you're suddenly confronted with something unpleasant?

Riding my bike along the lake this evening I saw the flashing lights of a cop SUV in the middle of the street. As I came even with the vehicle I peered in front of it and saw a bashed up dead swan in the middle of the road, and feathers strewn all over. Very sad.

Didn't have time to think, I just suddenly said "Ai-yai-yai." The cop standing there shook her head and said said "yep." A hit and run.

Being the heartless bastard that I am, I started ruminating on the first thing that came out of my mouth. Why that? I thought. I might have said any of a number of things, and in the past I'm pretty sure I have. Like:

Damn (pronounced "day-am").
Wow.
Fuck.
Yikes.

What was it Steve Buscemi's character said in Fargo when his accomplice murders the cop in cold blood? "Whoa...Daddy." In Mandarin Chinese you say "Ai-yo." Being a Chinese speaker, I've said that hundreds of times over the years, and I suspect that probably influences what I would normally say.

What do you say? Would there be regionalisms with this kind of thing? And how about in French?

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Didn't have time to think, I just suddenly said "Ai-yai-yai."

http://mentalfloss.com/article/52790...e-yai-yai-come

It's been said that the expression may be a Spanish influence.

Originally Posted by rousseau

In Mandarin Chinese you say "Ai-yo." Being a Chinese speaker, I've said that hundreds of times over the years, and I suspect that probably influences what I would normally say.

"Aiyo" meaning "Oh dear!" or "Oh, no!" is also used in Tamil, and Sinhalese, some of the languages spoken in South India and Sri Lanka.

It recently made it into the Oxford English Dictionary, in 2016.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/aiyo

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/a.../1/782813.html

I wonder if it's coincidental or not that it sounds kind of like the "Ai-yai-yai" that is said to have entered (North) American English through Mexican Spanish.

I guess if you squint a little and look farther to an expression to express sort of a similar sentiment, there's also the famous Yiddish "Oy vey", which has also entered North American culture.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

I never understood how people in Western New York have such a strange accent compared to the rest of the state which sounds very similar to most of English Canada(minus a few New York boroughs). I recall going there and asking somebody on Grand Island where the nearest grocery store was.


She gave me directions to Tayaps!
source: https://tops-secure-graphics.grocerywebsite.com

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northe...es_Vowel_Shift

Edited to add: Whoops, didn't realize it had already been mentioned!

[Acajack]

Ayayaye is also very common in French on both sides of the Atlantic.

The classic oulala you also hear a lot.

Nobody says oy-vey here in French AFAIK.