LIVERPOOL - update thread - Page 3

Waterways · #41 Posted **Nov 8, 2006, 3:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Citrus-Fruit

Wirral Waters is not Europes largest project. Its £6,000,000 over 30 years. Unless its built speculatively you can bet your bottom dollar only half whats been proposed will be built. There isnt the market it to do such a scheme in such close proximity to Manchester.

There is a market otherwise the proposal would not have been put together. Manchester does what Manchester does and will not affect Liverpool and the Wirral. The Mersey is a far more attractive location than inland Manchester and will be a far more appealling place for people to setup. The Wirral Waters and the Lairds Shipyard site together will certainly be the biggest project. Wirral Waters is awesome in scale.

Look at the picture of Wirral Waters. At the riverfront is the ro-ro car Irish ferry terminal. This is to move across the river to Liverpool. The cars are on the in-filled Wallasey Dock. This will then not be used. Expect development proposals for this section of the waterspaces too. It gets bigger.

30 years. London Dockland has been going for over 25 years and still not done. How long has Salford Quays been going? You don't build a complex like Wirral Water in a few years.

Quote:

Other schemes are good, but after all this is Liverpool. Every single tower is reduced.

Height doesn't make quality - look at Croydon and the off-the-shelf designs at Manchester and Birmingham. This height thing must be related to the size of the penis mentality. height is reduced in Liverpool centre because of the World Heritage Site zone and English Heritage. Outside of the zones is a free for all. Let's see if the 51 floor Brunswick Quay gets the go ahead in a week or two. One thing is for certain there is no shortage of developers that wanted to build 50 to 60 floor towers in Liverpool.

The Wirral is not in the World Heritage Site zone and has no restrictions.

One thing is for certain, Liverpool is Europe's largest construction site and with far more to come. The best is yet to come.

Grumpy · #42 Posted **Nov 8, 2006, 5:59 PM**

What an huge aeza to reconstruct , what is going to built over there ?
Got any renderings please ?

Waterways · #43 Posted **Nov 8, 2006, 6:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grumpy

What an huge aeza to reconstruct , what is going to built over there ?
Got any renderings please ?

http://www.liverpoolpsda.co.uk/masterplan/

This project is just one aspect of the construction going on in the city.

"42 acres, 40 individually designed buildings, 6 districts, over 1.6 million square feet of shopping"

Citrus-Fruit · #44 Posted **Nov 10, 2006, 5:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterways

.

One thing is for certain, Liverpool is Europe's largest construction site and with far more to come. The best is yet to come.

What complete nonsense.

Manchester, Birmingham and even Glasgow has more construction work on going or in its pipelines then Liverpool. You really do seem to blank out others to give yourself a confidence boost. Liverpools doing well ... but believe me. Not that well.

Grumpy · #45 Posted **Nov 12, 2006, 10:16 AM**

Are there any plans/projects concerning public transport ?

Waterways · #46 Posted **Dec 6, 2006, 4:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Citrus-Fruit

What complete nonsense.

Manchester, Birmingham and even Glasgow has more construction work on going or in its pipelines then Liverpool. You really do seem to blank out others to give yourself a confidence boost. Liverpools doing well ... but believe me. Not that well.

You are deluded. Liverpool is Europe's largest construction site - as it stands. The Paradise St Project is 42 acres alone and being built right now. Then also there is Kings Dock, The Baltic Triangle and Princes Dock - all being buuilt right now. Central Village, Mann Island (picture below) Lime St and many interspeared projects around to be started shortly. Then the Central Docks and Wirral Water projects being announced in detail in about a month. Both will be large.

Man Island going ahead in a few months:

Waterways · #47 Posted **Dec 6, 2006, 4:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grumpy

Are there any plans/projects concerning public transport ?

There was plan for trams but rightly shelved. Liverpool has an underground rail system connecting to overground lines. A number of stations are being built along the tracks and few abandoned stations brought back into use.

The city is littered with abandoned tunnels - some dating from the 1830s built by the Stephensons to serve goods stations at the docks. There is debate of what to do with these. There was a 1970s plan to cut stations into these tunnels and join crossing tunnels underground. The abandoned Dingle underground station can be brought back into use if they want to, to regenerate that area. The station is there.

Birkenhead, across from Liverpool, a few years ago, had a new rail station cut into a tunnel.

What they need to do is abandon the Dock Rd as it runs through the city centre, as this is just an urban motorway these days. Then people will use public transport more and then that can be improved and added to as time goes on. The infrastructure is there, left to us by our Victorian great grandfathers. All we need to do is re-use it.

Citrus-Fruit · #48 Posted **Dec 6, 2006, 9:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterways

You are deluded. Liverpool is Europe's largest construction site - as it stands. The Paradise St Project is 42 acres alone and being built right now. Then also there is Kings Dock, The Baltic Triangle and Princes Dock - all being buuilt right now. Central Village, Mann Island (picture below) Lime St and many interspeared projects around to be started shortly. Then the Central Docks and Wirral Water projects being announced in detail in about a month. Both will be large.[/IMG]

Im deluded? Ok ... lets put this into perspective. Birmingham will have 6,000,000 sqft (£1,600,000,000) worth of construction in four seperate projects in Europes largest regeneration project which will expand the UK's 2nd biggest city by 35%. The sad thing is ... these four projects cover just 78 acres of the 420 they are developing. Within these projects lie towers including 90m, 110m, 176m, 80, 70m, 60, 55, 50, 70, 60m, 55, plus a shopping mall bigger then the Bullring. This is on top of Curzon Park, Warwick Bar, Arena Central, Broad Street Tower, 5 ways Shopping Center, The Cube, Park Central, The Irish Quarter, The Jewellery Quarter, St Charles Street, Snow Hill , Paradise Circus,Whole Sale Markets, New Street Station, Birmingham Super Hospital.

In these projects include -

*175m, 60m, 60m, 60m, 55m, 50m, 133m, 80m, 62m, 71m, 69m, 90m, 140m, 90m, 130m, 130m, 200m?, 200m?

This completely overlooks all individual projects accumlating into well over 20 (40-80m towers)

My point is however. Liverpool is'nt even the UK's biggest construction yard let alone Europes. If you think it is then poor you.

Waterways · #49 Posted **Dec 6, 2006, 10:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Citrus-Fruit

Im deluded? Ok

You are. Birmingham is a bigger Croydon - very forgetable.

Waterways · #50 Posted **Dec 7, 2006, 3:58 PM**

Princes Dock. Plot 3A. This is near to acceptance. There is concern at the height overpowering those behind. This is the amended version, so looks like it will be pretty well like this. Construction will start soon if permision is given.

The building on the right, the tall and thin, is 2/3 complete. All the others are complete. Another tower is being built just off picture to the left.

Grumpy · #51 Posted **Dec 7, 2006, 7:48 PM**

thanks for the update

Marre · #52 Posted **Dec 9, 2006, 12:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterways

There was plan for trams but rightly shelved. Liverpool has an underground rail system connecting to overground lines. A number of stations are being built along the tracks and few abandoned stations brought back into use.

The city is littered with abandoned tunnels - some dating from the 1830s built by the Stephensons to serve goods stations at the docks. There is debate of what to do with these. There was a 1970s plan to cut stations into these tunnels and join crossing tunnels underground. The abandoned Dingle underground station can be brought back into use if they want to, to regenerate that area. The station is there.

Birkenhead, across from Liverpool, a few years ago, had a new rail station cut into a tunnel.

What they need to do is abandon the Dock Rd as it runs through the city centre, as this is just an urban motorway these days. Then people will use public transport more and then that can be improved and added to as time goes on. The infrastructure is there, left to us by our Victorian great grandfathers. All we need to do is re-use it.

I would be very interested to see any information on these abandoned tunnels (old maps, etc).

Waterways · #53 Posted **Dec 9, 2006, 4:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marre

I would be very interested to see any information on these abandoned tunnels (old maps, etc).

The Waterloo and Wapping Tunnels. Both from Edge Hill Junction at the east of the city centre underground with one to the north docks and one to the south (1830s). Both used until the early 1970s. The world's first passenger rail line came in from Manchester and a junction was built at Edge Hill. The station was a bit further into the city at Crown St, but still outside the centre.

Later the passenger line was tunnelled into Lime St creating the widest arch at the time and the first proper rail terminal; (no it wasn't Paddington in London) . To provide for goods, two long tunnels were cut from Edge Hill to the north and south docks with goods terminals at each end.

There are other disused tunnels about Liverpool and countless disused overground stations. A number are being brought back into use and new stations built. The disused infrastructure is all there.

http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/s...ng/index.shtml

Dingle underground station 1930

Dingle station about 10 years ago - a garage:

http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/forums/...read.php?t=406

Marre · #54 Posted **Dec 10, 2006, 12:55 AM**

Thanks, can see your point about not wasting cash on a tram network when it would be better spent expanding an already existing mass-transit system in Liverpool. Would say the same for Glasgow, Tyne & Wear and London aswell.

My concern for Liverpool is that despite all these planned developments (which look fantastic btw) there is nothing in regards to expanding Liverpool Lime Street station. It appears to be a very constricted station by surrounding structures.

I would therefore wonder how such a station could take a large increase in railway traffic and even 400 metre long High Speed trains should the CTRL/HS1 ever get extended to the North?

Waterways · #55 Posted **Dec 10, 2006, 3:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marre

Thanks, can see your point about not wasting cash on a tram network when it would be better spent expanding an already existing mass-transit system in Liverpool. Would say the same for Glasgow, Tyne & Wear and London aswell.

My concern for Liverpool is that despite all these planned developments (which look fantastic btw) there is nothing in regards to expanding Liverpool Lime Street station. It appears to be a very constricted station by surrounding structures.

I would therefore wonder how such a station could take a large increase in railway traffic and even 400 metre long High Speed trains should the CTRL/HS1 ever get extended to the North?

All British cities have an amazing amount of abandoned rail infrastructure. Liverpool is different in that the place has major disused tunnels under the city centre. These tunnels can have stations cut into them serviving certain areas - something overground stations cannot, unless the lines run through the centre. Birkenhead in the past few years has had a new station cut into an underground tunnel.

Lime St station is underused. It can cope with far more trains than it does. Modern signalling can increase the throughput. Trains with long waits can back up to Edge Hill and wait there at the rail junction.

Marre · #56 Posted **Dec 10, 2006, 11:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterways

Lime St station is underused. It can cope with far more trains than it does. Modern signalling can increase the throughput. Trains with long waits can back up to Edge Hill and wait there at the rail junction.

But can it ever be expanded if growth required and can it accomodate 400 metre long trains which would be necessary if a domestic HSL was ever built?