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  #381  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2010, 12:43 AM
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why dont we just move the ESB and put it on Governors island that would solve everything!
Better yet, why don't we build and Empire State for this century, a modern icon that we can look up to as something "we" built as opposed to looking back on something built generations ago as the peak of what we can do...
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  #382  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2010, 12:52 AM
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Better yet, why don't we build and Empire State for this century, a modern icon that we can look up to as something "we" built as opposed to looking back on something built generations ago as the peak of what we can do...
wow we share the same train of thought...if only NIMBY's could see our point.
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  #383  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2010, 1:06 AM
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wow we share the same train of thought...if only NIMBY's could see our point.
Their heads would explode at the thought of it. Imagine, something giving an entirely new perspective on New York and the skyline. Most of us won't make it to the next century, yet many are still trying to hold on to the last.
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  #384  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2010, 2:30 AM
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Better yet, why don't we build and Empire State for this century, a modern icon that we can look up to as something "we" built as opposed to looking back on something built generations ago as the peak of what we can do...

We have (had) a gorgeous one of soaring heights proposed.

Blame Amanda Burden and the Luddite NIMBYs.
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  #385  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2010, 2:33 AM
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Luddites -- That's hilarious!
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  #386  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2010, 3:15 AM
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Your argument would make sense if the buildings weren't so far apart. All these buildings, singer, chrysler, are very far from eachother. And also these buildings at their time were totally new. Just like NYT tower is today. I love the building, but the fact is that the PA tower just across the street will block its most flattering view from the west, but no one cares because it is a new building.

Ok, let's say that the Met Life tower was completed?

It is what? 4-5 blocks away from the ESB? Would that have changed everything?
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  #387  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2010, 3:25 AM
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Ok, let's say that the Met Life tower was completed?

It is what? 4-5 blocks away from the ESB? Would that have changed everything?
10 blocks to be precise
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  #388  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2010, 4:26 AM
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Dark gray is the region from which the esb will be completely blocked. Light gray is the region in which it will be partially blocked. Even the partially blocked region isn't that big.
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  #389  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2010, 6:31 AM
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It's probably even way smaller than that. A viewshed analysis run with 3d massings of buildings set at 10' foot increments from ground elevation would probably find other buildings obstruct the views of it from other buildings obstruct the views of it from other buildings..........................
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  #390  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2010, 2:07 PM
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The blocked argument is way off anyway. Most people would see both towers, thought both would be dominant on the skyline - at least until the other tall west side towers get built.

Still, Malkin's tantrum about a potential rival on the skyline has already gotten old. We'll have to wait until next week to hear the end of it, one way or another. Vornado should sue the pants off of those so called "Friends of the Skyline" for that phony rendering. A full paged copy of it in the NY Post had the tower somehow blended in with 2 Penn Plaza as a base (though you can blame the Post for that). Their rendering looks nothing like the actual proposal. Ironically, if you look at it from the 33rd street rendering, their tower actually looks designed to blend in with the ESB. Such clowns. If there were any real concern, they would fill in the skyline with all of the other proposed towers nearby. But that would diminish the effect they are going for.



http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/m...7KXqFgZaGHnbQI
It's a tower power play



By TOM TOPOUSIS
August 20, 2010

Quote:
The battle for New York's skyline is on.

Operators of the Empire State Building have declared war on a proposed skyscraper that would sit just two blocks away and rise nearly as high -- calling it a "monstrosity" that would forever alter the Midtown skyline.

"The Empire State Building is the most important and single largest landmark -- with a capital 'L' -- in the city of New York," said Anthony Malkin, president of Malkin Holdings, which runs the 1931 skyscraper.

"Are people consciously making the decision that we want to radically change the skyline of New York? And if everyone is in agreement to change the skyline, is this the building with which to do it?"


His ire was directed at a proposed tower called 15 Penn Plaza at the site of the Hotel Pennsylvania at Seventh Avenue and 32nd Street. The 67-story, glass-walled tower would soar up to 1,216 feet -- 34 feet shorter than the Empire State Building.

The city's Planning Commission approved the project last month, allowing it to be more than double the size of what zoning allows, in part because developer Vornado Realty Trust would make improvements to subway stations below.

While the project won preliminary approval from planners, Vornado has said it will not begin construction until anchor tenants are found.

A spokesman for Vornado declined comment.

The Planning Commission's decision moves to the City Council on Monday for a public hearing, where Malkin plans to press his battle. A final vote will be held by the full council on Wednesday.

During the July 14 vote by her panel, city Planning Commissioner Amanda Burden called 15 Penn Plaza "elegant."

But Malkin said such a dramatic and permanent change to the city skyline needs far more deliberation.

"It's hard to imagine the city of Paris allowing a structure similar to 15 Penn Plaza to be erected within proximity of the Eiffel Tower," he said in a letter to City Councilman Mark Weprin (D-Queens), whose zoning subcommittee will hold Monday's hearing.

Malkin insisted his opposition wasn't motivated by the prospect of facing new competition for tenants.

"It's not going to compete with us. It's in an entirely different price point," he said. "But this is like trying to put a size 22 foot in a size 12 shoe."

Amazing 'feet'

1. Empire State Building 1,250 feet

2. Bank of America Tower 1,200 feet

3. Chrysler Building 1,046 feet

4. New York Times Building 1,046 feet

5. American International Building 952 feet

____________________________________________


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/m...3kv8dLTKvzSKFM
Why landmark's team is getting all high & mighty

By STEVE CUOZZO
August 20, 2010

Quote:
The Empire State Building's owners sure have chutzpah. The guys who won't light up their landmark for Mother Teresa want a holy dispensation to prevent a new nearby skyscraper from cramping its style.

They're seething because a new tower to be built by Vornado Realty Trust two blocks away will mess up views of, and from, the Empire State.

But there's nothing sacrosanct about office workers' window views. The Empire State has a slightly stronger case when it comes to the way the beloved landmark is perceived from the outside.

It's always enjoyed an unchallenged skyline profile thanks to the fact that no building south of 42nd Street is remotely as tall.

The Vornado project would change that. The Empire State's Hail Mary play is a plea to the City Council, which will probably bless the scheme anyway.

You can't blame Tony Malkin & Co. for trying. They've spent more than a half-billion bucks recently to bring the Empire State into the modern age.

Why, now that the iconic edifice is finally on sound commercial footing, should it have to share the sky with a bulkier but lesser neighbor two blocks away and nearly as tall?

Well, Manhattan's a genetically high-rise place. New office towers sometimes spoil iconic parts of the skyline. It's sad but unavoidable on a narrow island where the world's most important business district is scrunched into a few square miles.

Boxy structures long ago smothered downtown's "wedding cake" profile. The Pan Am Building (now MetLife) eclipsed the great Helmsley Building at its foot.

Maybe 15 Penn Plaza could use a little pruning -- which Vornado boss Steve Roth is unlikely to accept, since he's pledged $100 million in subway-station improvements in exchange for his brainchild's height and bulk.

But Vornado can't build it without a big tenant like a bank -- meaning it would bring oodles of tax revenue and high-paying jobs to a rundown, underutilized Midtown precinct.

The price might well be the loss of the Empire State's solitary splendor.

But it will still be as magnificent and unique as ever. Just choose your view of it a little more carefully.

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http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/..._newcomer.html
Yo, keep outta my skyline! Empire State Building fights Steven Roth's plan for nearby skyscraper


Opponents of 15 Penn Plaza released this rendering of a radically altered skyline.

BY Rich Schapiro
August 20th 2010

Quote:
A big-shot developer has one final hurdle to clear in his bid to build a skyline-altering skyscraper in the shadow of the Empire State Building.

But there's one person erecting a tower of opposition to the plan: the owner of the Empire State Building.

Anthony Malkin is in an 11th-hour bid to stop developer Steven Roth from tearing down the Hotel Pennsylvania on Seventh Ave. and replacing it with a high-rise nearly as tall as the crown jewel of the cityscape.

"It's going to be known as the building that has ruined the image of New York City," said Malkin, a co-owner of the Empire State Building.

"Would you put a drilling rig next to the Statue of Liberty? Would they put something like this next to the Eiffel Tower?

"Literally, it looks like a Trident nuclear missile," Malkin said.


The proposed 67-story skyscraper, named 15 Penn Plaza, goes before the City Council on Monday for final approval.

It would soar over Manhattan at a height of about 1,216 feet, just 34 feet shy of the Empire State Building's top floor. Under a second design, it would be 1,190 feet-tall.

The planned commercial tower is also catching flak because it's slated to be built just opposite Madison Square Garden, placing it within three blocks of the city's most iconic building.

Though the proposal has the support of the City Planning Commission and Manhattan Borough President Scott Stringer, Malkin is hoping to urge the City Council to force Roth to scale back.

And he's got Community Board 5 and civic groups like the Municipal Art Society on his side.

"We are absolutely for development, but the issue here is the height and the density," said Malkin.

A spokesman for Roth's Vornado Realty Trust declined to comment.
_______________________________________


Vornado should be absolutely livid that they haven't used an actual rendering of the tower in the papers. It's so easy to mislead people with phony renderings. But I guess they see it wise not to comment on anything until this is over, which is shortly. They may be right, but that doesn't make me any less angry over it...
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  #391  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2010, 2:54 PM
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Saw this on Good Day New York...the girl at the end makes the most sense I've seen in the second largest media-free-for-all over a building currently ongoing in the city. (The first being a certain controversial building Downtown that we won't bring up).


Video Link
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  #392  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2010, 4:07 PM
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For those who are not from NY, in addition to 15 Penn, Vornado plans two other very tall towers for the MSG site. One will be over 300m.

Moynihan Station air rights up for grabs
August 19, 2010 12:00PM

Moynihan Station: The state and the city have re-entered negotiations with Vornado Realty Trust and the Related Companies over the sale of 1 million square feet of air rights for the new Moynihan Station, according to Tim Gilchrist, the new president of the Moynihan Station Development Corp. The developers entered into an agreement with the state in 2006 to develop the Farley Post Office into a new train station and to use the air rights to build an adjacent mixed-use development topped by a 67-story tower, Crain's reported. But the plan, which included $110 million from the sale of the air rights, was never approved by the Public Authorities Control Board. Instead, the recession forced the state to split the development into two phases. Eventually, federal stimulus funding provided the final $83 million needed to build the $267 million first phase. The initial construction contracts were approved Monday, and now attention is turning to funding the $1 billion second phase.The Farley building -- which occupies the square block between 31st and 33rd streets and Eighth and Ninth avenues -- comes with 2.5 million square feet of transferable air rights. Related and Vornado have dibs on the first 1 million square feet, but the remaining 1.5 million are up for grabs. The agreement that gives Related and Vornado exclusive development rights expires in 2012. [Crain's]

One will rise on the southwest corner of 7th and W34th where the Footaction and Torneau stores are located.




The other will rise where this one-story Duane Reade is located, which is on the southeast corner of 34th and 8th.
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  #393  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2010, 4:21 PM
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For those who are not from NY, in addition to 15 Penn, Vornado plans two other very tall towers for the MSG site. One will be over 300m.

Moynihan Station air rights up for grabs
August 19, 2010 12:00PM

Moynihan Station: The state and the city have re-entered negotiations with Vornado Realty Trust and the Related Companies over the sale of 1 million square feet of air rights for the new Moynihan Station, according to Tim Gilchrist, the new president of the Moynihan Station Development Corp. The developers entered into an agreement with the state in 2006 to develop the Farley Post Office into a new train station and to use the air rights to build an adjacent mixed-use development topped by a 67-story tower, Crain's reported. But the plan, which included $110 million from the sale of the air rights, was never approved by the Public Authorities Control Board. Instead, the recession forced the state to split the development into two phases. Eventually, federal stimulus funding provided the final $83 million needed to build the $267 million first phase. The initial construction contracts were approved Monday, and now attention is turning to funding the $1 billion second phase.The Farley building -- which occupies the square block between 31st and 33rd streets and Eighth and Ninth avenues -- comes with 2.5 million square feet of transferable air rights. Related and Vornado have dibs on the first 1 million square feet, but the remaining 1.5 million are up for grabs. The agreement that gives Related and Vornado exclusive development rights expires in 2012. [Crain's]

One will rise on the southwest corner of 7th and W34th where the Footaction and Torneau stores are located.




The other will rise where this one-story Duane Reade is located, which is on the southeast corner of 34th and 8th.

wow i didnt know that,MSG/Penn Plaza will be quite the district when complete. any idea where construction will begin?
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  #394  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2010, 4:30 PM
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I don't know when construction will begin, but I'd guess within 5 years.
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  #395  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2010, 5:50 PM
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Saw this on Good Day New York...the girl at the end makes the most sense I've seen in the second largest media-free-for-all over a building currently ongoing in the city. (The first being a certain controversial building Downtown that we won't bring up).


Video Link
i like the girl they interviewed
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  #396  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2010, 7:21 PM
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This building doesn't belong in Midtown. It should go in Lower Manhattan with all the other glass buildings down there.
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  #397  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2010, 8:46 PM
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Last edited by NYC-Graffhead91; Aug 20, 2010 at 9:18 PM.
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  #398  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2010, 10:07 PM
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Clearly, this will be built.

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...TATE/100829972

August 20, 2010 1:51 PM
Green light likely for huge 15 Penn Plaza tower
Despite unanimous nay vote from the local community board and opposition from the neighboring Empire State Building, city likely to approve 28 million-SF project Wednesday.

By Amanda Fung


A rendering of the proposed 15 Penn Plaza tower.

Next week, the City Council is expected to approve 15 Penn Plaza, a proposed office tower that has generated some criticism from its neighbors—namely the owners of the Empire State Building, which is two blocks east.

The 67-story tower by Vornado Realty Trust is planned to rise as much as 1,216 feet on the site of the Hotel Pennsylvania at West 33rd Street. The tower is expected to get the green light, despite opposition from Community Board 5 and Malkin Holdings, which controls the Empire State Building. Community Board 5 had unanimously voted down the project. However, the full City Council is expected to vote on Wednesday to grant Vornado the final approval needed to proceed with the project.

“The height and bulk of 15 Penn Plaza are the result of waivers and bonuses greatly in excess of code. Another waiver granted 15 Penn Plaza the right to build without setbacks,” said Tony Malkin, president of Malkin Holdings, in a press statement. He has also spoken out against the project at public hearings this summer and is expected to voice his concerns at the Council subcommittee and committee meetings slated for Monday and Tuesday. “At only 67 stories, 15 Penn Plaza would be as tall as the 102nd floor of the Empire State Building, and would, if built, be as much a scar on the complexion of New York City as the loss of Penn Station,” he added.

The City Planning Commission, which gave the development a green light last month, said in its report that “the prominence of the Empire State Building would not be significantly affected because the new building…would be shorter than the Empire State Building (approximately 230 feet shorter), and the two buildings are approximately 1,000 feet apart, which would further diminish the perceived height of the new building in more distant views.”

Even if Vornado's project is approved, construction on the new tower is not expected to begin until it signs up an anchor tenant, which will be challenging in this market. The building is expected to be 2.8 million gross square feet.
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  #399  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2010, 11:11 PM
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That stupid son of a bitch who was against this project in in the interview gave into the terrorists hook line and sinker more than anybody I have ever seen of since 9/11. Also, the last time I checked, 1,216 feet is less than 1,250 feet making it less than the ESP, what a fuckin idiot... May he burn in the underworld... That just made me mad to my inner core all around listening to that garbage.

The woman in the interview however was dead on and what she said about what's going on today in NYC is sad but true. No true New Yorker should be at all against this type of highrise development let alone any. If so, get the hell out and go get a horse and go live out in the mountains and not bother anybody. NYC shall never back down to any scumbag NIMBY or terrorist whom to me are both becomming one of the same to me more and more...

I figure I check on proposed projects every now and then but remember why I don't usually do so anymore. The bastardization of the Moma project was what finally did it in for me. I'll check back when it's in the U/C forum or if not I'll assume it will be like several "never built."

May I also add that this project looks magnificant and will be a real gem of an addition to the skyline, if it doesn't get built NYC would not only miss out on a great opportunity, but show the rest of the country and world how bad it's "no growth" mentality has gotten, which once upon a time was very opposite of what NYC once stood for...
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  #400  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2010, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by RobertWalpole View Post
For those who are not from NY, in addition to 15 Penn, Vornado plans two other very tall towers for the MSG site. One will be over 300m.
Not quite the MSG site (those towers have been canceled for now), but on the east and west sides of 1 Penn Plaza, known as Penn East and Penn West. An image of 1 Penn Plaza being sandwiched by the potential towers is below. In the EIS for 15 Penn Plaza, it is stated that those towers are expected to be under construction around the same time (possibly sooner).




And a look at the former MSG towers that would have dwarfed the Empire State...

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