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  #161  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2007, 6:33 PM
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JULY 22, 2007

Counting the days until the stairway is removed...










Took this photo coming out of the new temporary PATH terminal entrance.




This will probably be the even newer temporary entrance that will open by the end of the year. If not, its in the immediate area...

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  #162  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2007, 6:39 PM
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
The buildings in Chicago seem to naturally gravitate toward ~650 to ~750 feet in height, because that's how developers make the most money. In New York, it seems to be 100 - 150 feet higher than that. There's also the factor of the importance of this site and pressure from the city and public for something truly spectacular to replace the twin towers, which leads to higher buildings still. If this was just any plot of open land in the city, these buildings would be a bit shorter, albeit still very tall, like the NY Times buildings, Bloomberg tower, or the Hearst Building
These towers wouldn't be shorter, they're about the size they need to be because of the size of the plots and the type of towers they are, with large trading floors, and the extra mechanical space needed both above and below. But the WTC is just a small part of the office construction boom in New York. There is a line of similarly massive towers planned in Midtown all the way to the river. Putting all of those developments together, the WTC is small in comparison.

New York still has the smaller 1 msf towers under construction as well though.
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  #163  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2007, 1:23 PM
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http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007...rom_wtc-1.html

Bay may harbor stairs from WTC



World Trade Center staircase may be moved temporarily to barge off Governors Island until permanent spot can be found.



By GREG B. SMITH
August 1st 2007


State officials are considering a highly unusual plan to solve the problem of the World Trade Center staircase that's blocking Ground Zero reconstruction.

Put it out to sea.

The Lower Manhattan Development Corp. is floating a plan to place the last remaining piece of the twin towers on a barge and moor it off the shore of Governors Island, sources told the Daily News.

In recent weeks, the sources say, the LMDC, which oversees reconstruction at the site, discussed the plan with the city and the Governors Island Preservation and Education Corp.

Errol Cockfield, a spokesman for the LMDC's oversight agency, the Empire State Development Corp., declined to comment.

The 175-ton staircase is the only remaining above-ground remnant of the Trade Center. Some historical preservationists have pressed the state to keep it intact as a reminder of the twin towers.

The staircase sits in the middle of multiple construction projects, including reconstruction of the so-called "bathtub" that keeps water from flooding the site.

"Everyone acknowledges that it has to be moved in order for the bathtub construction to continue," said Michael Connolly, a member of Community Board 1. "The question is, where do you put it until a decision is made about its permanent future?"

Last spring the state proposed moving the ragged staircase to Battery Park City, but residents put up a fuss.

The latest plan under consideration is to float the staircase on a barge off Governors Island temporarily until a permanent spot can be found.

Then there are those who would like to see the staircase simply go away.

"If the barge sank, it might make a nice natural reef," said Bill Love, member of Community Board 1 who opposes putting the staircase in Battery Park City, where he lives.
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  #164  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2007, 5:01 PM
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That's as good a solution as any. Just move the thing!
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  #165  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2007, 7:37 PM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007...rom_wtc-1.html

Bay may harbor stairs from WTC




World Trade Center staircase may be moved temporarily to barge off Governors Island until permanent spot can be found.



By GREG B. SMITH
August 1st 2007


State officials are considering a highly unusual plan to solve the problem of the World Trade Center staircase that's blocking Ground Zero reconstruction.

Put it out to sea.



"If the barge sank, it might make a nice natural reef," said Bill Love, member of Community Board 1 who opposes putting the staircase in Battery Park City, where he lives.
Well, you know... one good wave can solve the problem of the "historic" staircase once and for all...
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  #166  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2007, 12:09 AM
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The latest plan under consideration is to float the staircase on a barge off Governors Island temporarily until a permanent spot can be found.
The fact that they even have to go through such drastic measures sums up the 5 or 6 years of ground zero foolishness.
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  #167  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2007, 10:09 PM
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http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/06/ny...on&oref=slogin

Stairs to Remain Intact in Ground Zero Plan

By DAVID W. DUNLAP
August 6, 2007

The Spitzer administration says it has taken steps to finally solve the quandary of the “survivors’ stairway” at ground zero.

Gov. Eliot Spitzer’s chief of downtown redevelopment, Avi Schick, proposes to keep the stairway whole and intact — but just the seven-foot-wide stairway proper, not the hulking concrete structure around it.

Held together and supported by a specially designed truss, the stairs would be moved out of the way of the planned 2 World Trade Center office tower. Eventually, they would be set into a long flight of steps leading from the visitors’ center at ground zero to the underground World Trade Center memorial museum, which is to open in 2009.

The stairway served as an escape route on 9/11 and is the only aboveground remnant of the original trade center complex still in place. It stands near Vesey Street, on part of the site where Tower 2 is to rise.

For months, preservationists, survivors of the attack, neighbors, officials and development executives have fought over how much of this ragged but evocative structure ought to be saved and where it ought to end up.

Advocates have portrayed the stairway as a haunting symbol of the resilience, heroism and sheer good luck of those who found a tortuous way to safety on Sept. 11, 2001. Some expressed the hope that the entire structure would be preserved in place. Critics have dismissed the stairway as an obstruction and an eyesore that lost much of its meaning when it was badly damaged — not by the attack, but during the recovery and cleanup. Some just wanted it torn down.

Under the Pataki administration, the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation proposed to disassemble the stairway, leaving some granite stair treads in their original location, but reoriented within the staircase to the lobby of Tower 2. The bottommost tread was to have been moved off and set into the memorial plaza. Other treads might have been used within the memorial museum.

Under the Spitzer plan, visitors would walk alongside the survivors’ stairway during their descent into the museum.

“They’re experiencing the path of travel just as someone else experienced it,” said Mr. Schick, who is the president of the Empire State Development Corporation, the chairman of the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation and a director of the World Trade Center Memorial Foundation.

In an interview on Thursday, he said: “The stairs are a potent reminder of the path to salvation and survival that many people had. We were able to separate what the stairs mean from what the structure means.”

He added, “The plan we walked into was an embarrassment to government.”


Though the larger structure around the stairway would not be preserved, Mr. Schick said some elements would be salvaged, perhaps most important the granite landing at the top, which would be set into the memorial plaza.

The new proposal must undergo scrutiny in a federal preservation review known as the Section 106 process, which covers historical resources affected by projects financed with federal money, as is the case at ground zero.

There is no guarantee that the latest proposal will ultimately be adopted. But two leaders of the fight to save the stairway said on Friday that they were pleased with the plan.

“Obviously, we would have loved to see the staircase above ground,” said Peg Breen, the president of the New York Landmarks Conservancy. “But Avi Schick and the Spitzer administration put an enormous amount of thought into coming up with a respectful solution. I think they achieved it. There will be stairs, not just treads, and the museum will work to interpret them. The earlier proposal just chopped it into shreds, essentially.”

Richard Zimbler, the vice president of the World Trade Center Survivors’ Network, said the Spitzer administration’s proposal would do justice to the structure’s symbolic value. He added that he was confident the museum would successfully display the stairs and explain their context.

“The most important elements of the stairway are those parts that look like a stairway,” he said. “And that’s exactly the proposal: to preserve all the steps.”
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  #168  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2007, 3:41 AM
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I think that's a very good solution. Well done governor.
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  #169  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2007, 5:15 AM
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Perfect.
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  #170  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2007, 9:15 PM
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Agreed. Bury the damned things.
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  #171  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2007, 11:50 PM
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To me, the staircase succeeds the best at being the only thing that currently allows those who were at the site before to mentally recreate the scale of the old WTC, as well as the dreary dark tunnel that Vesey Street was at the time. Also, walking down these stairs(or the escalator right next to them) during possibly my first visit to the WTC is one of my oldest New York sightseeing memories. I was already contemplating as to how they are going to dismantle the Twin Towers in 300 years or so, and I never had the faintest idea that that small staircase at the side will outlive the Twin Towers, as well as the rest of the complex, and will remain the only thing standing on the site for many years to come. I'd love to see it remain at its current site to be a better reminder of those days; however, if that is impossible, I'm all for disposing of this hunk of concrete. besides, I don't see too much survival significance in the staircase. Sure, it saved a lot of people, but so did the other exits and staircases around the complex; why don't they hang each of them up in the museum too?
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  #172  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2007, 12:16 AM
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Sure, it saved a lot of people, but so did the other exits and staircases around the complex; why don't they hang each of them up in the museum too?
Because they no loner exist. This one survived everything: destruction and cleanup. I for one am so happy that there're keeping it.

Does anyone have a picture of this stairway prior to the attacks? I' want to see what it looked like inside.
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  #173  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2007, 8:34 PM
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It's ok that they're keeping a part of it, but the little symbolism that was there really won't be. It's just a move to keep the objectors out of the way so construction can keep moving.
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  #174  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2007, 10:23 PM
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  #175  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2007, 8:55 PM
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http://www.downtownexpress.com/de_22...emslikely.html

School seems likely as stairway storage plan is not 2B

By Skye H. McFarlane


To be or not 2B — that question has finally been answered with regards to the Vesey St. staircase.

Although the details have yet to be decided, it appears that a slimmed-down version of the staircase will be preserved permanently and incorporated into the World Trade Center memorial. More importantly, at least to local education advocates, the stairs will not be spending any time on Site 2B, between First and Second Pl. in Battery Park City.

“The wishes of the community board and the residents seem to have been heard by the people with the power to make these decisions,” said Catherine McVay Hughes, the chair of C.B. 1’s World Trade Center Committee. “We’re very, very happy that the stairs will not be going to 2B and we look forward to the official declaration that there will be a school on 2B.”

For more than a year and a half, Downtowners have been pushing to have the Department of Education build a school on site 2B to alleviate the overcrowding in the local public schools. The plot of land, which sits in the southernmost part of Battery Park City, must house a community amenity. It was originally slated to hold a women’s history museum, but negotiations to have it designated as a school site appeared to be going well last spring — until the Vesey St. staircase threw a wrench into the plans.

Revived under Gov. Eliot Spitzer, the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation announced that it would be rethinking plans to dismantle the Vesey St. “survivors’” staircase. The 175-ton stairway led some workers to safety on 9/11. It survived the collapse of the Twin Towers, although it was badly damaged during the subsequent recovery effort. Preservationists and some 9/11 survivors have fought to keep the stairs intact as a symbol of hope, while community members eager for redevelopment have balked at the size of the staircase and the hefty cost (at least $1 million per trip) of moving it in one piece.

Although C.B. 1 was somewhat divided on what should be done with the staircase, the board was unanimous in its opposition to the L.M.D.C.’s suggestion that the staircase might be stored temporarily on 2B while the Development Corp. decided what to do with it. The L.M.D.C. said in early April that building a school should be the “top priority” for Site 2B and that the staircase, if stored there, would not interfere with that goal. Community members disagreed, saying that the “temporary” storage would likely last long enough to disrupt, or at least delay, the school plans.

Board chairperson Julie Menin and other board members cajoled the development corporation, suggesting alternate storage sites as wide ranging as Governors Island, empty plots in Greenwich South, Battery Park and the pedestrian promenade on Route 9a. The board members were joined in their push by Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver, who has been heavily involved in working for a school on the site.

“We have successfully protected Site 2B,” Silver said in a statement released to Downtown Express on Tuesday. “With such limited space Downtown, Site 2B provides a great opportunity to provide our children with much-needed classroom space. Building a new school here must be our top priority in order to meet the growing demand set by dramatic growth in our local residential population.”

Silver’s spokesperson, Jim Quent, said that while they have not yet gotten confirmation from the D.O.E. that Site 2B will become a school, they hope to be able to bring the community good news soon.

Errol Cockfield, a spokesperson for the L.M.D.C. and Spitzer’s Empire State Development Corp., told Downtown Express in April that “as far as Site 2B is concerned, the top priority ought to be the construction of a school.”

As for what will be become of the staircase, L.M.D.C. Chairperson Avi Schick told the New York Times last Thursday that he was proposing to preserve the seven-foot-wide stairwell, while dispensing with most of the hulking structure around it. The stairs would be kept together by a truss and later inserted into the staircase leading from the W.T.C. visitors’ center down to the memorial.

“We plan to incorporate the stairs into the memorial,” Cockfield confirmed Wednesday. “We believe that this will convey the importance of the stairs as remnant of 9/11.”

While Cockfield said that the substance of the Times’ report was accurate, he stressed that the details of the plan have yet to be finalized. Among those details is whether the slimmer stairs will be moved off the W.T.C. site, and if so, to where.


Quentin Brathwaite of the Port Authority told C.B. 1 on July 9 that the staircase would need to be moved from its current location by “August or September” in order to keep construction moving on schedule. The stairs currently sit in the footprint of what will become Tower 2. Cockfield said that the development corporation is working closely with the Port on the staircase issue and that “any storage option [the L.M.D.C. chooses] will not interfere with the overall rebuilding plans.”

Hughes, of C.B. 1, said she hoped that the L.M.D.C. would come to her committee’s September meeting to explain their staircase plans in more detail. At first listen, however, the new plan sounded like a workable compromise.

“It’s just great that they’re not putting it on 2B,” Hughes said.
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  #176  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2007, 2:13 PM
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sigh
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  #177  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2007, 2:50 PM
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Heh heh, Cockfield...
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  #178  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2007, 4:05 PM
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If those stairs hadn't been utterly destroyed during the cleanup effort, I'd be all in favor of keeping them. But once the cleanup effort converted the totally and untouched stairs into a hulking mess, to me, it makes little sense to keep them.

But since they do intend to keep the stairs, I hope they put a sign next to it that says: "These stairs were not damaged in the slightest during 9/11. They were intact and people were able to easily walk down them on 9/11. It was only during the cleanup effort afterwards that these stairs were made to look like a miserable hunk of concrete. If you wish to see actual items that were destroyed during 9/11, please proceed down to the Museum, which has ample samples of items salvaged from the original WTC."
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  #179  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2007, 8:47 PM
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Originally Posted by CitySkyline View Post
If those stairs hadn't been utterly destroyed during the cleanup effort, I'd be all in favor of keeping them. But once the cleanup effort converted the totally and untouched stairs into a hulking mess, to me, it makes little sense to keep them.
What meaning there was was lost.

Images from the Times...






The stairs, seen in a model, would lead to a memorial museum.
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  #180  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2007, 12:10 PM
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Port Authority



Port Authority


Slurry wall


Port Authority



Port Authority



Port Authority
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