HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Midwest


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2012, 12:20 AM
Arch City's Avatar
Arch City Arch City is offline
Proud Homer!
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,316
St. Louis Blues Museum

First Memphis was angry. Now Chicago.
__________________________________

Chicago loses Blues museum momentum to St. Louis
By DAVE HOEKSTRA Staff Reporter
Chicago Sun-Times
December 18, 2012 12:00AM


The National Blues Museum, scheduled to open in 2014 in downtown St. Louis — the home of rock ’n’ rollers Chuck Berry and Ike and Tina Turner ­— just got a major financial boost.

Chicago, arguably the home of the blues, is left out in the cold.

The National Blues Museum will receive a $6 million contribution from Pinnacle Entertainment and Lumiere Place Casino. The 23,000-square-foot museum, with a 2,000-square-foot theater, will showcase the blues as the foundation for modern American music.

Chicago has a lengthy history of blues, jazz and gospel museum efforts. None has come to fruition.

Over the summer, the idea of “The Blues Experience,” a blues museum-nightclub with classroom space, was introduced for the former Block 37 shopping center on State Street. It was reported that William Selonick, executive managing director in the Chicago office of the New York-based brokerage Newmark Grubb Knight Frank, was spearheading the project. This week, Selonick had a stern “no comment” regarding “The Blues Experience.”

Michelle Boone, commissioner of the Department of Cultural Affairs and Special Events, said the city remains committed to the blues.

“From the city’s perspective, 2013 is going to be the 30th anniversary for the blues festival,” Boone said. “We want to use that as a platform to do outreach to the world about Chicago blues in a way we haven’t done before.”

The St. Louis location is similar to what Chicago is planning for a Motor Row (Music Row) area centering around the historic Chess Records site, a block away from McCormick Place. National Blues Museum advisors include Patrick Gallagher of Gallagher & Associates, which has provided museum exhibition and design and master planning for the B.B. King Museum in Mississippi and the National World War II Museum in New Orleans, and Bob Santelli, a blues author and historian who is executive director of the Grammy Museum at L.A. Live.
__________________
Debating some people on the Internet is like debating dead people - it makes you look crazy so why bother? #BYE

Last edited by Arch City; Apr 14, 2016 at 7:04 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2012, 12:37 AM
BnaBreaker's Avatar
BnaBreaker BnaBreaker is offline
Future God
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Chicago/Nashville
Posts: 19,492
I think Memphis and Chicago definitely deserve it a little more, but St. Louis is definitely an appropriate place for a Blues Museum. At least it's not in like, Atlanta or Phoenix or something.
__________________
"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery. None but ourselves can free our minds."

-Bob Marley
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2012, 12:48 AM
Evergrey's Avatar
Evergrey Evergrey is offline
Eurosceptic
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 24,339
Go St. Louis!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2012, 1:06 AM
arkitekte's Avatar
arkitekte arkitekte is offline
Preds/Titans/Grizz
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 2,569
Yeah, it should be in Memphis.
__________________
I built it ground up. You bought it renovated.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2012, 2:07 AM
HowardL's Avatar
HowardL HowardL is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: East Lakeview, Chicago
Posts: 1,180
I hate the Blues so much. Please keep that crap out of Chicago. If another city wants it, then bless your heart, please take it. All of it. Forever.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2012, 2:46 AM
unusualfire unusualfire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Cincinnati,OH San Diego,CA Alamosa, CO
Posts: 2,029
Blues is not crap. Maybe to you and the FEW, but not most of us.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2012, 3:10 AM
The ATX's Avatar
The ATX The ATX is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Where the lights are much brighter
Posts: 12,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by howardl View Post
i hate the blues so much. Please keep that crap out of chicago. If another city wants it, then bless your heart, please take it. All of it. Forever.
lol
__________________
Follow The ATX on X:
https://twitter.com/TheATX1

Things will be great when you're downtown.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2012, 3:13 AM
Chicago_Forever's Avatar
Chicago_Forever Chicago_Forever is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chi-River North
Posts: 421
I don't care much for the Blues either but I wouldn't say it's crap. A lot of people seem to like it. The genre seem to have a large following within the city and people from all over the world come here for blues fest.

Also, I don't know why people are acting like only one city is allowed to have a blues museum.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2012, 3:33 AM
KevinFromTexas's Avatar
KevinFromTexas KevinFromTexas is offline
Meh
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: there and back again
Posts: 57,324
Blues is probably the one true American genre of music that has stayed honest. Country music isn't country anymore. It's all a bunch of people pretending to be country while acting and living like Hollywood stars. And it doesn't sound anything like Country anymore. It reminds me more of Pop, similar to that watered down "safe" Rock. Jazz gets me reaching for screw drivers, and well, there isn't really another genre of music that is uniquely American that hasn't been replicated somewhere else in a really successful way. Of course there's Rock and Roll, but it owes a lot of its inspiration from Blues.

Chicago's "unique" touch to Blues was adding more instruments and switching to electric instead of acoustic. Other than that the style is pretty much the same, and the electric element was eventually adopted elsewhere.
__________________
Donate to Donald Trump's campaign today!

Thou shall not indict
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2012, 6:36 AM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
TL;DR
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 16,356
Dear Chicago,
we know what it's like to squander your musical heritage with so many missed opportunities. There's always tomorrow, right?

Best regards,
New Orleans
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #11  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2012, 8:55 AM
LMich's Avatar
LMich LMich is offline
Midwest Moderator - Editor
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Big Mitten
Posts: 31,745
Wait, "Blues museum momentum" is a thing? Who knew that there was an arms race when it came to, no, not the actual music that is the Blues, but museums dedicated to the Blues? lol

Chicago, you can't take this offense sitting down. Well, actually, since this is the Blues we're talking about, so you could be excuse for sitting down while try to formulate an answer to this travesty. I propose a duel. Blues guitars at dawn, 20 paces, two stools, no picks. The winner wins "Blues museum momentum." The loser has nothing left but to sing the Blues for his or her loss.
__________________
Where the trees are the right height

Last edited by LMich; Dec 21, 2012 at 3:04 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2012, 4:49 PM
rgolch's Avatar
rgolch rgolch is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 887
Meh.... can't say I really care about this one. Not having a blues museum hardy squanders Chicago's image as a major contributor to blues music; and I too can't stand blues music. Moreover, after seeing the total clusterphuck that happened to the Museum of Broadcasting history, I'm not sure I'd trust Chicago to pull it off right. I think St Louis would put more love into it. The only thing I'd say is that, if it were in Chicago, it'd have the opportunity to see far more traffic, as there are way more visitors and tourist who come to Chicago.

In my dream of dreams, I'd love to see a massive expansion of the Museum of Contemporary Art (MCA) in Chicago. I have to admit, I was a little sad to see the Art Institute create a modern wing, as I think it breaks up the city's modern art into two distinct museums (although much of the Modern wing was just moving famous pre-existing modern works at the Art Institute into the wing). The MCA is pretty good as is, but I'd love to see even more, and those types of museums are way more important to a city like Chicago.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2012, 7:01 PM
Rizzo Rizzo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 7,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgolch View Post
Meh.... can't say I really care about this one. Not having a blues museum hardy squanders Chicago's image as a major contributor to blues music; and I too can't stand blues music. Moreover, after seeing the total clusterphuck that happened to the Museum of Broadcasting history, I'm not sure I'd trust Chicago to pull it off right. I think St Louis would put more love into it. The only thing I'd say is that, if it were in Chicago, it'd have the opportunity to see far more traffic, as there are way more visitors and tourist who come to Chicago.

In my dream of dreams, I'd love to see a massive expansion of the Museum of Contemporary Art (MCA) in Chicago. I have to admit, I was a little sad to see the Art Institute create a modern wing, as I think it breaks up the city's modern art into two distinct museums (although much of the Modern wing was just moving famous pre-existing modern works at the Art Institute into the wing). The MCA is pretty good as is, but I'd love to see even more, and those types of museums are way more important to a city like Chicago.
I think the important thing is having establishments where you can go watch and listen to the blues. It's the most authentic thing...not a pre-packaged corporate experience of recorded audio and computerized visuals and static artifacts.

Still, it's a place people would visit and Chicago already has plenty of cultural attractions that would be too big of competitors to out of state and international tourists that may be short on time.

If this is what will boost tourism further in STL and give it more attractions, they deserve it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2012, 2:20 AM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
The City
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago region
Posts: 21,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Dear Chicago,
we know what it's like to squander your musical heritage with so many missed opportunities. There's always tomorrow, right?

Best regards,
New Orleans
^ Musical heritage a museum does not make.

In the same way that the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame does not mean that Cleveland is the global epicenter of "rock" music.

Festivals, venues, artists are far more important, IMO.
__________________
Supercar Adventures is my YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4W...lUKB1w8ED5bV2Q
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2012, 3:37 PM
rgolch's Avatar
rgolch rgolch is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayward View Post
I think the important thing is having establishments where you can go watch and listen to the blues. It's the most authentic thing...not a pre-packaged corporate experience of recorded audio and computerized visuals and static artifacts.

Still, it's a place people would visit and Chicago already has plenty of cultural attractions that would be too big of competitors to out of state and international tourists that may be short on time.

If this is what will boost tourism further in STL and give it more attractions, they deserve it.
Authentic or not, most people just don't really dig blues. It's more of a novelty of the ghost of music past (little holiday pun ). Most younger people have never heard of a guy like Muddy Waters.

As far as watching and listening, we already have places like Kingston Mines and House of Blues (?? do they even play Blues music there?). So you don't need a museum for that. The museum sounds like it'd be a watered down version of Cleveland's Rock and Roll Hall of fame, sans inducting new artists into the museum. Again, for me personally (and most people under the age of 50), it just doesn't sound that interesting.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2012, 8:23 AM
KevinFromTexas's Avatar
KevinFromTexas KevinFromTexas is offline
Meh
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: there and back again
Posts: 57,324
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgolch View Post
Authentic or not, most people just don't really dig blues. It's more of a novelty of the ghost of music past (little holiday pun ). Most younger people have never heard of a guy like Muddy Waters.

As far as watching and listening, we already have places like Kingston Mines and House of Blues (?? do they even play Blues music there?). So you don't need a museum for that. The museum sounds like it'd be a watered down version of Cleveland's Rock and Roll Hall of fame, sans inducting new artists into the museum. Again, for me personally (and most people under the age of 50), it just doesn't sound that interesting.
I dig the blues. I really dig it. I haven't seen many of the greats, since so many of them died before my time, but I have at least seen B.B. King and Buddy Guy. We missed out on getting to see John Lee Hooker when he came to town. Pinetop Perkins lived here, too, and somehow I never got to see him. And then there's Stevie Ray Vaughan, who died before I got into blues. I have at least gotten to see Jimmie Vaughan about a half dozen times.
__________________
Donate to Donald Trump's campaign today!

Thou shall not indict
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2012, 1:09 AM
Arch City's Avatar
Arch City Arch City is offline
Proud Homer!
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,316
Quite frankly, I could see each city with their own versions of a Blues museum.

Not to start a war, neither city is more deserving than the other - in my opinion. Neither city is really the "home" of the Blues. The Deltas are. Granted the largest city near the Mississippi/Arkansas Deltas is Memphis, St. Louis and Chicago were definitely major stops along The Blues Highway.

Many of the most notable Delta Blues musicians traveled back-and-forth between and lived in each city. Muddy Waters, Albert King, Little Milton, Pinetop Perkins - even W.C. Handy, the Father of The Blues, all lived in St. Louis at some point in their lives. Some of them lived in St. Louis before going to Chicago or Memphis.

With that said, Chicago and Memphis definitely had more noted recording assets (ie. Chess, Sun, Stax) than St. Louis. Although St. Louis had Bobbin Records and Delmark Records, which later moved to Chicago, St. Louis' blues recording history simply isn't on par with Memphis or Chicago. However, that doesn't mean St. Louis Blues "history" is less important or less relevant.

I just hope St. Louis' museum is good, educational and not a simple tourist trap. Contrary to popular knowledge, St. Louis' Blues history is extensive and impressive.

Speaking of Pinetop Perkins.......He lived in St. Louis for a period of time - TWICE.

Pinetop Perkins passes at 97
St. Louis American
Posted: Thursday, March 31, 2011 12:00 am
By Terry Perkins | 0 comments


Blues legend will be buried Saturday April 2 in Clarksddale, Mississippi.

The blues lost another legend on Monday, March 21, 2011 with the passing of Joe Willie “Pinetop” Perkins at the age of 97 in Austin, Texas. Born near Belzoni, Mississippi on July 7, 1913, Perkins didn’t achieve widespread recognition as a musician until his mid-50s, when he replaced the great Otis Spann as the pianist in the band of blues great Muddy Waters.

During his twenties, Perkins spent several years living and playing in St. Louis, before returning South to eventually work with famed bluesmen Robert Nighthawk and Sonny Boy Williamson in Helena, Arkansas in the 1940s – appearing with Nighthawk on regular broadcasts on radio station KFFA, then playing with Williamson on the “King Biscuit Time” broadcasts.

Perkins returned to the St. Louis area once again in the 1950s, spending several years based in East St. Louis and also Cairo, Illinois, before moving to Chicago in 1958 and eventually working with slide guitarist Earl Hooker for several years, then joining Waters’ band from 1960 to 1980.
__________________
Debating some people on the Internet is like debating dead people - it makes you look crazy so why bother? #BYE
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #18  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2012, 1:20 AM
KevinFromTexas's Avatar
KevinFromTexas KevinFromTexas is offline
Meh
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: there and back again
Posts: 57,324
Oh yeah, and Robert Cray. I never turn down a chance to see him.
__________________
Donate to Donald Trump's campaign today!

Thou shall not indict
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #19  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2012, 4:48 AM
goat314's Avatar
goat314 goat314 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: St. Louis - Tampa
Posts: 705
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch City View Post
Quite frankly, I could see each city with their own versions of a Blues museum.

Not to start a war, neither city is more deserving than the other - in my opinion. Neither city is really the "home" of the Blues. The Deltas are. Granted the largest city near the Mississippi/Arkansas Deltas is Memphis, St. Louis and Chicago were definitely major stops along The Blues Highway.

Many of the most notable Delta Blues musicians traveled back-and-forth between and lived in each city. Muddy Waters, Albert King, Little Milton, Pinetop Perkins - even W.C. Handy, the Father of The Blues, all lived in St. Louis at some point in their lives. Some of them lived in St. Louis before going to Chicago or Memphis.

With that said, Chicago and Memphis definitely had more noted recording assets (ie. Chess, Sun, Stax) than St. Louis. Although St. Louis had Bobbin Records and Delmark Records, which later moved to Chicago, St. Louis' blues recording history simply isn't on par with Memphis or Chicago. However, that doesn't mean St. Louis Blues "history" is less important or less relevant.

I just hope St. Louis' museum is good, educational and not a simple tourist trap. Contrary to popular knowledge, St. Louis' Blues history is extensive and impressive.

Speaking of Pinetop Perkins.......He lived in St. Louis for a period of time - TWICE.

Pinetop Perkins passes at 97
St. Louis American
Posted: Thursday, March 31, 2011 12:00 am
By Terry Perkins | 0 comments


Blues legend will be buried Saturday April 2 in Clarksddale, Mississippi.

The blues lost another legend on Monday, March 21, 2011 with the passing of Joe Willie “Pinetop” Perkins at the age of 97 in Austin, Texas. Born near Belzoni, Mississippi on July 7, 1913, Perkins didn’t achieve widespread recognition as a musician until his mid-50s, when he replaced the great Otis Spann as the pianist in the band of blues great Muddy Waters.

During his twenties, Perkins spent several years living and playing in St. Louis, before returning South to eventually work with famed bluesmen Robert Nighthawk and Sonny Boy Williamson in Helena, Arkansas in the 1940s – appearing with Nighthawk on regular broadcasts on radio station KFFA, then playing with Williamson on the “King Biscuit Time” broadcasts.

Perkins returned to the St. Louis area once again in the 1950s, spending several years based in East St. Louis and also Cairo, Illinois, before moving to Chicago in 1958 and eventually working with slide guitarist Earl Hooker for several years, then joining Waters’ band from 1960 to 1980.
St. Louis is often overlooked for its contributions to music and American culture in general. It is really mind-boggling how little people either know about the city or how totally off-base their preconceived notions are.

Why wouldn't St. Louis be a good place for the Blues museum? Right between Memphis and Chicago and the only city with a professional sports team called "The Blues".
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #20  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2012, 5:38 AM
Rizzo Rizzo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 7,280
Ok.. Well while the museum may falter that doesn't mean music establishments will fall away into obscurity because they aren't in with a younger crowd. That's a silly observation. Different types of music retain a niche crowd and reemerge in popularity in certain cycles...and of course influence other music.

Not a fan of the blues personally, but it was oddly coincidental I met individuals in LA and NYC in bands that were planning to open establishments in those places. Said there was definite growing interest in young audiences filling the halls. I'll take the performers' word since their livelihoods depend on the music.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rgolch View Post
Authentic or not, most people just don't really dig blues. It's more of a novelty of the ghost of music past (little holiday pun ). Most younger people have never heard of a guy like Muddy Waters.

As far as watching and listening, we already have places like Kingston Mines and House of Blues (?? do they even play Blues music there?). So you don't need a museum for that. The museum sounds like it'd be a watered down version of Cleveland's Rock and Roll Hall of fame, sans inducting new artists into the museum. Again, for me personally (and most people under the age of 50), it just doesn't sound that interesting.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Midwest
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 7:59 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.