How the Suburbs Gave Birth to America's Most Diverse Neighborhoods

[MostlyHarmless]

Originally Posted by mhays

You said "the city is quickly becoming home to only the well-to-do." Obviously wrong given the huge areas of poverty.

The neighborhoods with relatively decent schools, clean streets, lower crime, amenities people want, etc are quickly becoming out of reach for many people (especially those with families).

Just look at this heat map of median home prices. Even in places like Jeff Park (which is historically blue collar and affordable) the median price is $213k! Sauganash @ $431k!?!?

Sure, Austin is at a low 124, feel free to move there. I'm viewing pricing in Chicago as someone starting a family. Not just renting there for a few years and then moving back to the suburbs with children. Believe me, it's prohibitively expensive for many many people.

[mhays]

So you used hyperbole and omitted much of the city. $213k is doable on an average income. Even $431k doesn't take a lot more than average income in theory, and obviously a $431k median suggests a lot of places in the 300s.

Or maybe you think anyone who makes an average income, or median, is "well to do"?

[MostlyHarmless]

Originally Posted by mhays

So you used hyperbole and omitted much of the city. $213k is doable on an average income. Even $431k doesn't take a lot more than average income in theory, and obviously a $431k median suggests a lot of places in the 300s.

Or maybe you think anyone who makes an average income, or median, is "well to do"?

If you want to nitpick my choice of words, just send me a PM...unless you have something more substantial to debate about. Sorry, but nobody's looking to live in the poor neighborhoods, and I've stated that even the traditionally affordable neighborhoods are anything but.

Even $431k doesn't take a lot more than average income in theory

lol. Sure. Whatever.

[mhays]

Maybe by post #30 noob, you'll learn that you can either be more clear or get called on things. If you mean "in certain neighborhoods" than say so.

As for $431k, it's not debatable aside from what "not a lot" means. I said "average," not "median." Average income is probably higher than you think, and I'm betting you haven't bought a place before. Factor in a normal down payment and a household earning "not a lot more than average" (say $90,000 compared to Cook County's 70,000-something) can be below a traditional 4x multiplier.

[Omaharocks]

Originally Posted by mhays

Maybe by post #30 noob, you'll learn that you can either be more clear or get called on things. If you mean "in certain neighborhoods" than say so.

As for $431k, it's not debatable aside from what "not a lot" means. I said "average," not "median." Average income is probably higher than you think, and I'm betting you haven't bought a place before. Factor in a normal down payment and a household earning "not a lot more than average" (say $90,000 compared to Cook County's 70,000-something) can be below a traditional 4x multiplier.

As you are talking average, perhaps you are correct. However, my family brings in higher than a median income (but not by much), and there's no way I can afford a $200K+ house, let alone a $430K, house. If I could, which may technically be feasible, it would be a very unwise choice for a number of reasons. I believe it is prohibitively expensive for most people. I love Chicago, but unfortunately within the city it feels like neighborhoods are either very wealthy or very poor, there's not much of a palpable middle-class in the attractive urban neighborhoods.

I think MostlyHarmless's point is a valid one, even accounting for the fact that we really don't need as much space living in a city as most folks think that we need.

[mhays]

Definitely $431k is more than the average US household can or should buy. But if you make $90k/year it's doable at 4x income assuming you have a decent down payment. If you have kids and a car(s) then it gets harder. But without either, in 2008, I mortaged 5x income, which is easy to pay with the 4.6% interest rate I later got.

[MostlyHarmless]

Originally Posted by mhays

Maybe by post #30 noob, you'll learn that you can either be more clear or get called on things. If you mean "in certain neighborhoods" than say so.

(go to SSP they say. It's much better than SSC they say. lol )

I guess mhays is SSP's stereotypical "tough guy". Noted. There's an easy solution for that. Thank you ignore list.

Called on what, exactly? Is it my fault you extrapolated what I said to mean every single neighborhood in the city? (which is pretty moronic if you ask me) I thought I didn't have to spell every single thing out, I guess so. I guess I should have specified that Englewood isn't exactly a happening neighborhood. My apologies.

As for $431k, it's not debatable aside from what "not a lot" means. I said "average," not "median." Average income is probably higher than you think, and I'm betting you haven't bought a place before. Factor in a normal down payment and a household earning "not a lot more than average" (say $90,000 compared to Cook County's 70,000-something) can be below a traditional 4x multiplier.

Uhh, and I've bought a place before. My wife and I make a combined 65k, and we BARELY can afford a small condo in a decent neighbood, just the two of us (and our interest rate is an absurd 3.5%). Not to mention we don't even have kids or a car or tuition to worry about yet.

I'm betting you love your air of superiority. Sorry my views don't match yours, but no need to patronize me.

[mhays]

In other words you didn't say what you meant. And now we learn that you CAN afford a condo, in a decent neighborhood even, even with a below-average household income for Cook County. I guess you were projecting a ways out when you said pretty soon only the well to do would be able to buy in Chicago, however you said it.

So do what you do and quite a few of us will keep calling you on it. Welcome to the intranets.