Oakridge Park | 13 Towers | 154m | 52fl | 5M sqft | U/C

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by whatnext

IMHO the 1,300 parking spots for 2,800 units is extremely naive. Yes, yes, I know it's beloved of planners, but its not reflective of reality. Given what the units' price points will be, its very likely owners will want to keep at least one car. The faulty assumption is that 50% of the buyers/renters are going to work downtown or maybe at the airport.

First of all developers will obviously like this, they can charge less for their product and earn higher profit margins so long as their sales and marketing team convinces buyers that they don't need a parking space.

The problem is that cities with significantly more units then parking spots generally end up viewing this as a significant problem. People generally are poor at planing for the future, people's view of short term gain versus long term costs is skewed. They will happily save a few dollars today not thinking about how much their life circumstances may change 10 or 20 years down the road. Having less parking may seem like a good idea until you end up with less parking then demand, and at that point fixing this becomes a major problem that many cities have experienced and continue to experience today.

Personally I think there should be one stall for every unit in all developments, its as much a city amenity as it is a asset for the owners.

*Keep in mind when I say this I am not saying a parking stall MUST be used as a parking stall, its still a usable space that can be used for any number of other uses. Based on demand you can convert parking stalls to other uses, or back from other uses to parking stalls.

Lets list the uses we can convert them to:
1) mini storage, (residential or public)
2) work shops
3) hydroponic farming
4) some forms of light industrial
5) recreational / bowling / etc.
6) transformer station / utility hub
7) gallery
8) educational or other institutional uses
9) with modern technology even residential (ie windows will not always be needed with the use of modern up and coming display screen technology...cheap livable units, maybe not even cheap actually...future solution for affordability issues?)
10) any other number of uses.

The point is parking stalls can be converted to other uses, but you cant necessarily convert other uses to parking stalls. We should be a little more creative and allow for some flexibility instead of basically handicapping our selves.

my two cents.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

Uh, they surely do care because they need to sell the units before walking away. It's a free market out there and one assumes that purchasers will be expecting a price break based on what they are not getting.

Stop making sense.

Surely you know the city of Vancouver is doomed by its car-hating ways?

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

Uh, they surely do care because they need to sell the units before walking away. It's a free market out there and one assumes that purchasers will be expecting a price break based on what they are not getting.

Well no one said purchasers are smart. They will look at their current situation and say hey this is 30 grand cheaper and I don't use a car today. 10 years later their circumstances change and they need a car but there are no spots because out of every 10 buyers in the development 5 of them ended up going down the exact same path.

To top this off developers have marketing teams whos whole job is to try to push the buyers to make these bad decisions so long as they can drop the price and increase their profit margin. (i.e. they save 30 grand per unit and drop the price by 20 grand, the buyer obviously does not know the true cost and like most market's competition between developers is elastic).

Compare this to say a building that is age restricted, what do you think the developer will tell the buyer? They will tell them how great it is, they may even give a superficial discount. But they wont tell them that the value of this unit is several 10%'s of percentage points lower then a identical unit in a non age restricted building. They will find buyers to buy in to it, and then a few years later these buyers may end up with a family and a unit that A) no longer meets their needs B) is difficult to sell C) is devalued...once the brand new charm wares off no Realtor will be able to do what the developer did when selling the unit. Large numbers of units without parking stalls is a similar concept.

We will end up with a large number of units for which there is very little demand and a low number of units for which there is very high demand...And it will be the city who will pay as residents demand solutions and clog up city streets.

[West22]

I don't think it is such a bad idea to give buyers a choice to buy a unit without a parking space. The choice not to own a car is slowly getting more common and with higher density, better transit, and new options such as car sharing programs the choice is becoming more viable to more people (though not me!).

The warning that these units may be hard to sell in 10 years assumes that there will be less demand for units without parking stalls. I assume the opposite - not having a car will become a more common choice as it is today in many larger, denser cities. If that is true, then these units should hold their value.

Keep in mind that this represents a tiny proportion of the housing stock in Vancouver, most of which has more than enough parking. Increasing the diversity of housing choices is necessary (imo) to keep Vancouver vibrant and offer some affordable choices.

[SpongeG]

renders from vancity buzz

[jlousa]

The renders aren't from Vancity Buzz, they are from the open house boards that I linked to above. Vancity Buzz just doesn't know how to link or credit their sources.

My two cents on the parking issue. The units will require more parking to sell (could even be on a prepaid lease), at the end of the day the market still demands parking and we've seen that with the other developments, the units w/o parking are not the first to go they are the last and at times the developer ends up taking a hit on offloading them. The mall and office space do have spare capacity to assist on this and their is obviously some synergy available, we'll have to wait and see how things develop.

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by cornholio

Well no one said purchasers are smart. They will look at their current situation and say hey this is 30 grand cheaper and I don't use a car today. 10 years later their circumstances change and they need a car but there are no spots because out of every 10 buyers in the development 5 of them ended up going down the exact same path.

So they'll do what every other normal person does and move when their circumstances and needs change (the property ladder, right?). There will always be a pool of people who can survive on transit alone and are budget-conscious.

[TwoFace]

I own a rental condo in Victoria without a parking spot.
The reality is that the marketplace penalizes you for this. Over the years I have found that you eliminate about 65% of all potential renters, and when it comes time to sell, it will also eliminate a large portion of prospective buyers.
Now Vancouver may be a bit more forgiving than Victoria when it comes to parking spots, because of it's extensive transit system and car share programs, but I would always advice on getting one, if not for your personal car than as a rental to another, unless you can get a discount large enough to compensate for it's future market worth (whatever that may be).

[Metro-One]

I love the canopy aspect n Cambie. Would love to see more of this downtown...

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by TwoFace

I own a rental condo in Victoria without a parking spot.
The reality is that the marketplace penalizes you for this. Over the years I have found that you eliminate about 65% of all potential renters, and when it comes time to sell, it will also eliminate a large portion of prospective buyers.
Now Vancouver may be a bit more forgiving than Victoria when it comes to parking spots, because of it's extensive transit system and car share programs, but I would always advice on getting one, if not for your personal car than as a rental to another, unless you can get a discount large enough to compensate for it's future market worth (whatever that may be).

Very well said.

Jebby's idea has some merit, but won't be that helpful when retail is open until 9 pm. Residents arriving home from work, guests coming over for dinner will be able to make us of it. Keep in mind that two of the adjacent streets, 41st and Cambie don't allow parking at all. Add in the fact that there is already more density behind Oakridge than most people realize and you have a recipe for conflict. 50% of units with no parking is unreasonably high.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I love the canopy aspect n Cambie. Would love to see more of this downtown...

I agree, it looks amazing. Sadly, it will be axed from the final product, though.

I'd love to see some type of canopy downtown over Robson, similar to the Calatrava one in Toronto.

[city-dweller]

The other part I discovered and forgot to mention is the fact there are no conversations with Langara College. The college just had its expansion approved. Why is student housing not being considered? It should be given that would be a 2 block walk.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by city-dweller

The other part I discovered and forgot to mention is the fact there are no conversations with Langara College. The college just had its expansion approved. Why is student housing not being considered? It should be given that would be a 2 block walk.

Student housing isn't very profitable.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by city-dweller

The other part I discovered and forgot to mention is the fact there are no conversations with Langara College. The college just had its expansion approved. Why is student housing not being considered? It should be given that would be a 2 block walk.

Langara College's site is quite small, so they must use space wisely...student housing isn't a good use of space for an already small campus.

[SpongeG]

i think he meant student housing at the oakridge development

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

So they'll do what every other normal person does and move when their circumstances and needs change (the property ladder, right?). There will always be a pool of people who can survive on transit alone and are budget-conscious.

I was not talking about individuals, although it might have seemed that way. I was talking about the city as a whole, that means all people in it.

Two different things.

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by West22

I don't think it is such a bad idea to give buyers a choice to buy a unit without a parking space. The choice not to own a car is slowly getting more common and with higher density, better transit, and new options such as car sharing programs the choice is becoming more viable to more people (though not me!).

The warning that these units may be hard to sell in 10 years assumes that there will be less demand for units without parking stalls. I assume the opposite - not having a car will become a more common choice as it is today in many larger, denser cities. If that is true, then these units should hold their value.

Keep in mind that this represents a tiny proportion of the housing stock in Vancouver, most of which has more than enough parking. Increasing the diversity of housing choices is necessary (imo) to keep Vancouver vibrant and offer some affordable choices.

In the long term these demands change in both directions more then a individual can imagine or a city can forecast. I think having a space attached to each unit that measures 4x5x4 meters, is separate from the living spaces and is directly accessible from the outside is not a bad thing to have. Regardless of what the future hold's...maybe we will get those flying cars finally that we should have had a few decades ago...(joke about the cars, just giving a example of...)

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Keep in mind that two of the adjacent streets, 41st and Cambie don't allow parking at all.

There are actually a few dozen parking places along Cambie on the northbound lanes both sides of 41st. But I think they are all customer parking.

I also really like the canopy and hope it will be built as shown. I am also pretty sure that there aren't quite that many trees in the area as shown in the rendering. The whole thing looks like a forest plantation area!

[dleung]

These renders make me a bit more optimistic than the original model, though not quite there yet.

[Built Form]

All pix by Built Form