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  #21  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2017, 5:50 PM
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Originally Posted by llamaorama View Post
Texas has the same issue.

The conservative state government likes to preempt local ordinances and limit city's powers.

I think the truth is, the state doesn't want municipalities to be effective. It's bad for the conservative narrative if progressives were successful at doing something. Voters might start demanding those things elsewhere. Also its too empowering to non-conservative leaders for them to be able to do anything. You don't want the 'other side' to grow its talent. Today, mayor, tommorow senator. Better stop them. Power is reserved to our club, our channels of influence and our gatekeepers.

In a perfect world, local governments would do with their locally sourced tax money as they please and make ordinances as they please(to the extent that the constitution allows). Don't like taxes or rules? The solution is to move 500 yards over there, on the other side of the invisible line that represents the city's boundaries.
I don't understand Texas. The state leadership (most of them) and their representation in DC are from the major metro areas, educated there and if not there in other major cities around the country but legislate as if they were some toothless yokel from Clute. Greg Abbott spent most of his professional and political career and Houston and Austin. Dan Patrick is from Baltimore and was a radio/tv host here in Houston before becoming Lt. Gov. Ted Cruz lives in a highrise over looking downtown Houston and went to Harvard.
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  #22  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2017, 7:11 PM
dave8721 dave8721 is offline
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Originally Posted by llamaorama View Post
Texas has the same issue.

The conservative state government likes to preempt local ordinances and limit city's powers.

I think the truth is, the state doesn't want municipalities to be effective. It's bad for the conservative narrative if progressives were successful at doing something. Voters might start demanding those things elsewhere. Also its too empowering to non-conservative leaders for them to be able to do anything. You don't want the 'other side' to grow its talent. Today, mayor, tommorow senator. Better stop them. Power is reserved to our club, our channels of influence and our gatekeepers.

In a perfect world, local governments would do with their locally sourced tax money as they please and make ordinances as they please(to the extent that the constitution allows). Don't like taxes or rules? The solution is to move 500 yards over there, on the other side of the invisible line that represents the city's boundaries.
Ditto for Florida. Outlandish gerrymandering has led to a overwhelming R majority in the State Government which basically just spends its time overruling any progressive idea any city in the state has, South Florida especially.
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  #23  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2017, 7:35 PM
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Originally Posted by left of center View Post
Illinois falls into the NY state model, in that one giant metro area almost overwhelms the remainder of the state. Metro Chicago has 9.5 million residents, of which 8.6 million reside in Illinois. With the state's population at 12.8 million, that effectively puts 2/3 of the state's residents in the Chicago 6 county region.

Downstate is decidedly Republican, while Northeast Illinois is Democratic. Downstate politicians love to stick it to Chicago any chance they can get. They often complain that a disproportionate amount of state money goes to the city (obviously not true, as Chicagoland subsidizes the rest of the state) and always try to redistribute government funds to their local rural districts.

I honestly think it earns them points with their constituents when they can claim they successfully ended or disabled legislation that would have benefited the city.
The Metro East area of Downstate Illinois is decidedly Democratic, but it's been pretty much left to it's own devices. Looking at the amount of blight and decay on the Illinois side of the metro areas, it's not hard to come to the conclusion that the state cares very little about Metro East. East St. Louis is consistently one of the most dangerous areas in the country.
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  #24  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2017, 7:36 PM
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  #25  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2017, 7:56 PM
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Originally Posted by dave8721 View Post
Ditto for Florida. Outlandish gerrymandering has led to a overwhelming R majority in the State Government which basically just spends its time overruling any progressive idea any city in the state has, South Florida especially.
And ditto for North Carolina. Tell me, in Florida, does the state government like to get revenge on cities? North Carolina's government loves nothing more than to punish a city if it tries to implement some uppity idea or just for not voting Republican. That's why the state has stepped in to steal airports, water systems, rearrange voting districts, and more all across North Carolina. In my own city the state has tried, with varying success, to steal our water system, airport, and expo center and give them to regional authorities with considerably more conservative representation, and is forcing district elections on a city that has always had open, city-wide elections.
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  #26  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2017, 8:21 PM
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And ditto for North Carolina. Tell me, in Florida, does the state government like to get revenge on cities? North Carolina's government loves nothing more than to punish a city if it tries to implement some uppity idea or just for not voting Republican. That's why the state has stepped in to steal airports, water systems, rearrange voting districts, and more all across North Carolina. In my own city the state has tried, with varying success, to steal our water system, airport, and expo center and give them to regional authorities with considerably more conservative representation, and is forcing district elections on a city that has always had open, city-wide elections.
I don't think any of those things have ever been run at the City level in Florida. Airports are usually run by Counties as is much of the water and sewer. Elections are generally still set by cities but only for internal city matters, anything pertaining to a state of Florida election is controlled by the State as far as I know. At least for now Counties still have the authority to set early voting dates and such (though I'm sure the State sets a range of dates where they can have them).
Things like local development boundaries, minimum wages laws...etc are generally banned on the state level. Miami-Dade gets a little more leaway thanks to a home-rule charter in the State Constitution. It was granted back in the 1950's and allows Miami-Dade to operate a bit outside of restrictions that are set on every other County in the State.
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  #27  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2017, 8:51 PM
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Also ditto for Arizona, which just got the southeastern town of Bisbee to repeal a plastic bag ban because, IIRC, a state legislator from Gilbert (metro Phoenix) threatened to go to the AZ Attorney General in hopes that the AG would find Bisbee in violation of a state law, wherein the state can withhold state tax revenue/funding from Bisbee (or any Arizona city, for that matter) if it didn't comply with legislation passed last year that gave the state power to supersede cities in local matters. Flagstaff, Phoenix and Tempe (and also possibly Tucson, but I can't recall) also condidered imposing local plastic bag bans last year before the law was passed. Bisbee's ordinance was already in place before the law took effect. This, after the legislation has for years raided such things as HURF money meant to fix our abysmal rural roads in order to cut taxes for businesses.
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  #28  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2017, 10:44 PM
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Michigan is, by far, the biggest offender of this thread's topic.
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  #29  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001 View Post
Also ditto for Arizona, which just got the southeastern town of Bisbee to repeal a plastic bag ban because, IIRC, a state legislator from Gilbert (metro Phoenix) threatened to go to the AZ Attorney General in hopes that the AG would find Bisbee in violation of a state law, wherein the state can withhold state tax revenue/funding from Bisbee (or any Arizona city, for that matter) if it didn't comply with legislation passed last year that gave the state power to supersede cities in local matters. Flagstaff, Phoenix and Tempe (and also possibly Tucson, but I can't recall) also condidered imposing local plastic bag bans last year before the law was passed. Bisbee's ordinance was already in place before the law took effect. This, after the legislation has for years raided such things as HURF money meant to fix our abysmal rural roads in order to cut taxes for businesses.
I experience culture shock twice a year, migrating from a place that bans ANY free bags (retail places have to charge at least 10 cents for a bag and most people now bring their own as the law intended) and also has things like mandatory composting (you separate your trash into landfill/recycle/compostables) to one where life is old-style: Tucson. I keep wanting to throw all my garbage in the compost bag except there isn't one.
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  #30  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 1:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Kenmore View Post
black people and leftists live in cities

no need to over complicate things
Yeah, I don't know why we're beating around the bush.
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  #31  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 1:18 AM
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Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17 View Post
Michigan is, by far, the biggest offender of this thread's topic.
Ehh, not really, Lansing has been very supportive to Detroit
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  #32  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 2:00 AM
jtown,man jtown,man is offline
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Originally Posted by llamaorama View Post
Texas has the same issue.

The conservative state government likes to preempt local ordinances and limit city's powers.

I think the truth is, the state doesn't want municipalities to be effective. It's bad for the conservative narrative if progressives were successful at doing something. Voters might start demanding those things elsewhere. Also its too empowering to non-conservative leaders for them to be able to do anything. You don't want the 'other side' to grow its talent. Today, mayor, tommorow senator. Better stop them. Power is reserved to our club, our channels of influence and our gatekeepers.

In a perfect world, local governments would do with their locally sourced tax money as they please and make ordinances as they please(to the extent that the constitution allows). Don't like taxes or rules? The solution is to move 500 yards over there, on the other side of the invisible line that represents the city's boundaries.
That's funny, that's exactly what conservatives have been saying for 60 years, let the state governments do what they want and lets have the Federal government not get so involved. Its also a lot easier to move from Texas to New York than from the USA to the UK.

It seems not wanting a larger overpowering government to control you is universal, its just one side doesn't mind that huge power controlling a whole country, but a state, can't have it.
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  #33  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 2:02 AM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
I don't understand Texas. The state leadership (most of them) and their representation in DC are from the major metro areas, educated there and if not there in other major cities around the country but legislate as if they were some toothless yokel from Clute. Greg Abbott spent most of his professional and political career and Houston and Austin. Dan Patrick is from Baltimore and was a radio/tv host here in Houston before becoming Lt. Gov. Ted Cruz lives in a highrise over looking downtown Houston and went to Harvard.
Yes, not all conservatives are racist rednecks in a trailer park with a GED. Its funny that intellectual conservatives still surprise some people. Its a bubble, must be.
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  #34  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 2:08 AM
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Actually, all you guys are cracking me up. You literally don't mind the national government taking over huge parts of our lives but you complain when a state government doesn't help fund a cities transit system etc.

Keep government local when possible, most peoples issues are solved.
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  #35  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 2:08 AM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
I don't understand Texas. The state leadership (most of them) and their representation in DC are from the major metro areas, educated there and if not there in other major cities around the country but legislate as if they were some toothless yokel from Clute. Greg Abbott spent most of his professional and political career and Houston and Austin. Dan Patrick is from Baltimore and was a radio/tv host here in Houston before becoming Lt. Gov. Ted Cruz lives in a highrise over looking downtown Houston and went to Harvard.
And Abbott is well known for his recent comment about how much better things smell when he leaves Austin. Dan Patrick recently noted how much he loathes the large and "blue" Texas cities. Yet it's our cities that mainly drive the generally successful economy of the state. As I like to note as often as possible, if people in this state would just vote, we would be a blue state, and we wouldn't be dealing so much with these rabid bigots like Abbott and Patrick (and most of the state GOP).
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  #36  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 3:25 AM
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Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
Actually, all you guys are cracking me up. You literally don't mind the national government taking over huge parts of our lives but you complain when a state government doesn't help fund a cities transit system etc.

Keep government local when possible, most peoples issues are solved.
Or how about all levels of government work to smarter goals. Most people are probably consistent that governments should support policy they like. Public transit is a good example.
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  #37  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 4:14 AM
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Originally Posted by The North One View Post
Ehh, not really, Lansing has been very supportive to Detroit


Thanks for the laugh today.
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  #38  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 4:30 AM
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I don't understand Texas. The state leadership (most of them) and their representation in DC are from the major metro areas, educated there and if not there in other major cities around the country but legislate as if they were some toothless yokel from Clute. Greg Abbott spent most of his professional and political career and Houston and Austin. Dan Patrick is from Baltimore and was a radio/tv host here in Houston before becoming Lt. Gov. Ted Cruz lives in a highrise over looking downtown Houston and went to Harvard.
It doesn't really matter though. They are politicians and very, very smart people, they know who to please to get what they want.

Dan Patrick is northwest harris county suburban conservatism distilled into its purest form. My Voight-Kampff machine indicates Ted Cruz is a Randroid. I don't really know about Abbott, he's just kind of a prick.
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  #39  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 11:11 AM
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Because most large cities in this country are a bloodbath every year with high levels of social decay. Why would suburban and rural voters be eager to pour more resources into them? People who live in these cities are themselves are often demoralized about the situation with schools, taxes, and crime.

Cities are in the worst situation politically. They tend to be occupied by the poorest and most affluent classes. The middle isn’t attached to either group and have largely been alienated in major cities, in my opinion. Either priced out of the good neighborhoods by the affluent or because of bad schools/crime by the poor.
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  #40  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2017, 1:17 PM
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Because most large cities in this country are a bloodbath every year with high levels of social decay.
Wait...what year is this again? Is this still 1974?


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Originally Posted by llamaorama View Post
It doesn't really matter though. They are politicians and very, very smart people, they know who to please to get what they want.

Dan Patrick is northwest harris county suburban conservatism distilled into its purest form. My Voight-Kampff machine indicates Ted Cruz is a Randroid. I don't really know about Abbott, he's just kind of a prick.
Ted, know what a turtle is? Same thing...
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