Calgary Roads

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by mersar

Yep. Compared to the previous design that was on the city's site this looks like a "lets fix the current issue, make people happy that we kept our promise, but don't block the province from building the final fix" type of interchange. Based on the size I'm going to make a rough estimate of $40M for this temporary fix, but you never know it may be possible to incorporate it into the future full interchange there for the ring road which could mean that it wouldn't be a completely wasted $40M.

If that's anywhere near 40 million, they are wasting their money. I'm going to assume that they don't make an interchange designed to last as long as a regular bridge, also, it looks like it's only two lanes wide.

My guess is closer to 15 million.

[freeweed]

At the rate we're going, the SW Ring Road won't even be started until 2020, making this a moot point.

[Mazrim]

Real temporary structures are built of rock and wire ala Kicking Horse Canyon, sheesh. This is an awkward design but ensures that building the ring road interchange will be easy. Thank goodness, because the less years of construction we have to deal with on Glenmore Trail, the better.

[MalcolmTucker]

^ Add to that that it doesn't antagonize the reserve as well.

[Ferreth]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

^ Add to that that it doesn't antagonize the reserve as well.

I wouldn't count on that. Check out the circuitous route someone hitting the Casino from the east would have:

- Exit right from Glenmore
- First right out of traffic circle (now traveling backwards to your original direction). Road takes a right to the south.
- Cross bridge, road takes a right to the west again. Continue straight into traffic circle, exit first right again. Hopefully this part will be obvious or else you'll end up back on Glenmore if you hang a right again.

It wouldn't surprise me for a second if the Reserve complains about how hard it is going to be to get to the Casino, even if it might not be that bad.

[MalcolmTucker]

^ Better than cutting off their access road as a conventional overpass would do.

[drto]

I don't know if this has ever been discussed on this thread but what does everyone think about Calgary building toll freeways in the future? The plan is for Calgary to attract something like another 1.2 million people over the next 50 years which will inevitably put more pressure on already crowded roads like Deerfoot and Crowchild. The Ring Road I'm sure helped somewhat but won't be enough in the future if population growth estimates become a reality. Would elevated toll freeways be feasible in P3's or does Calgary's winter freeze/thaw climate negate their usefulness and longevity? What about tunnels? I'm sure there's some intellectual forumers on here that could share some of their knowledge on this.

[Mazrim]

Freeze thaw isn't a problem, but the frosty reception a toll road would get is. There simply won't be any traction for that idea to get going, in my opinion. You know the government will never make the ring road a toll road, and any roads that collect tolls would have to be a major time saver to justify the cost to drivers (like the airport tunnel could do, I suppose...)

Honestly at this point I can't even see where a good place to place a toll road would be. Elevated roads are unsightly and generally destructive to communities (see cities like Boston) so it would be a tough sell, and turning current toll-free roads into tolled roads seems unlikely.

[MalcolmTucker]

I could see HOT lanes being added on Deerfoot. Other than that unless consumption of gasoline falls enough that taxes don't pay for roads anymore I don't see it happening.

[fusili]

I think we actually need less roads. Building more roads is a wicked problem. You build more, so people drive more, so then you have to build more, which causes people to drive more. When your solution causes a positive feedback loop, it is time to look at different options.

Originally Posted by drto

I don't know if this has ever been discussed on this thread but what does everyone think about Calgary building toll freeways in the future? The plan is for Calgary to attract something like another 1.2 million people over the next 50 years which will inevitably put more pressure on already crowded roads like Deerfoot and Crowchild. The Ring Road I'm sure helped somewhat but won't be enough in the future if population growth estimates become a reality. Would elevated toll freeways be feasible in P3's or does Calgary's winter freeze/thaw climate negate their usefulness and longevity? What about tunnels? I'm sure there's some intellectual forumers on here that could share some of their knowledge on this.

[Knoots]

Originally Posted by freeweed

At the rate we're going, the SW Ring Road won't even be started until 2020, making this a moot point.

I'm not entirely sure what the advantage is of building this temporary overpass before the SW ring road is built (at least the highway 8 to highway 1 portion). The traffic backs up well past crowchild during rush hour on glenmore because of the lights at 37th, but until the interchange at highway 8 and sarcee/glenmore is built to free flow, you're still going to have this backup. And, until glenmore is connected to the ring road heading north, most of the traffic gets stopped at Sarcee and richmond. So I don't think this 'fix' really fixes anything. Priority should be on the glenmore to stoney north. Any thougths?

[MalcolmTucker]

It might not fix the westbound backups, but it for sure will solve the east bound ones! (or transfer it cascading all the way down Glenmore). The intersection at Highway 8 has a much shorter phase where there isn't traffic going west/north on Glenmore/Sarcee so 37th being gone might not overload the intersection.

[lubicon]

Originally Posted by Ferreth

I wouldn't count on that. Check out the circuitous route someone hitting the Casino from the east would have:

- Exit right from Glenmore
- First right out of traffic circle (now traveling backwards to your original direction). Road takes a right to the south.
- Cross bridge, road takes a right to the west again. Continue straight into traffic circle, exit first right again. Hopefully this part will be obvious or else you'll end up back on Glenmore if you hang a right again.

It wouldn't surprise me for a second if the Reserve complains about how hard it is going to be to get to the Casino, even if it might not be that bad.

I hope they do complain, and I hope they get a great big F.U. in response.

[drto]

Originally Posted by fusili

I think we actually need less roads. Building more roads is a wicked problem. You build more, so people drive more, so then you have to build more, which causes people to drive more. When your solution causes a positive feedback loop, it is time to look at different options.

I know it is a wicked problem but regardless of roads or not, they are expecting this city to continue to grow and new roads will need to be built as the city continues its outward expansion. Even if we limit sprawl and build upwards vs outwards, there's no way to build up for 1.2 million more people and all the private and commercial vehicles that inevitably get added to the mix. I really do hope the city continues to encourage developers to build more dense communities on the outskirts and look at the Beltline for condo towers. I built two businesses in the inner city (Bridgeland and Arriva) because I believed in helping curb the trend of outward expansion. I don't see how we can limit the growth so much so though as to not consider new ways to encourage car-pooling etc, which is what toll roads and carpool lanes can do when implemented properly. Imagine an elevated freeway suspended over the existing lanes of Deerfoot and what it would look like for drivers to cruise high above a parking lot of frustrated drivers down below...might be worth a few bucks per month!

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Knoots

I'm not entirely sure what the advantage is of building this temporary overpass before the SW ring road is built (at least the highway 8 to highway 1 portion).

Actually, moving the Westbound log jam over to Highway 8 is a great thing, because it clears up the stretch of Glenmore between 14th Street and Crowchild Trail which would be a wonderful change. Eastbound has already been mentioned, but yeah, it would be huge improvement.

Originally Posted by drto

Imagine an elevated freeway suspended over the existing lanes of Deerfoot and what it would look like for drivers to cruise high above a parking lot of frustrated drivers down below...might be worth a few bucks per month!

This is being done in Florida (two extra lanes coming on a raised platform centered in the median), but mind you it's in a huge metropolitan area. Neat idea, but expensive and Calgary isn't at the point where it's feasible.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by drto

Imagine an elevated freeway suspended over the existing lanes of Deerfoot and what it would look like for drivers to cruise high above a parking lot of frustrated drivers down below...might be worth a few bucks per month!

Or we can just recreate the Big Dig here in Calgary.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig

But honestly, an elevated freeway over Deerfoot is completely unachievable. Might as well plan for flying cars and vacuum tubes for transportation.

[MichaelS]

Originally Posted by fusili

Might as well plan for flying cars and vacuum tubes for transportation.

Or this:
http://www.martinjetpack.com/

[fusili]

Originally Posted by MichaelS

Or this:
http://www.martinjetpack.com/

Oh my God yes! Remember the movie, the Rocketeer. I want to be that guy.

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by fusili

Or we can just recreate the Big Dig here in Calgary.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig

But honestly, an elevated freeway over Deerfoot is completely unachievable. Might as well plan for flying cars and vacuum tubes for transportation.

Totally agree. Deerfoot has tons of room to add more lanes, i cant see any situation in Calgary that would resort to an elevated and/or tunneled route similar to the big dig. We dont have the density or the traffic to support anything close to that.

Land is cheap enough and there are few things that are difficult to tear down to build a road (excluding the new runway of course )

[mersar]

The new automated lane reversal system for both Memorial Drive and the 5th Ave Connector goes into use on Monday according to signs up over the last couple days.