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  #1461  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2015, 1:00 PM
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mattgrande mattgrande is offline
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Is it inconceivable that Hamilton could get another NHL team's AHL team? They seem to move around a bit. Although having Montreal as the affiliate was probably the best besides the Leafs.
I doubt it (at least, not in the next year or two). A bunch of the teams are moving to California to start a new pacific division. Maybe Buffalo's affiliate, but I don't know who or where they are?
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  #1462  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2015, 2:33 PM
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I doubt it (at least, not in the next year or two). A bunch of the teams are moving to California to start a new pacific division. Maybe Buffalo's affiliate, but I don't know who or where they are?
No chance at Buffalo's AHL team. Their farm team is just down the highway in Rochester and has been for over 30 years (save for 2 years in the late 2000's). Not to mention the owner of the sabres and bills and bandits, Terry Pegula also owns the Rochester Americans. (his wife is from Western New York and is the driving force behind his monopoly of sports teams there)
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  #1463  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2015, 3:12 PM
HillStreetBlues HillStreetBlues is offline
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I wonder if there's a way to go beyond just closing off the seating in the upper deck- some sort of convertible top that could shrink the airspace in that area too. ipeven if you pack the lower bowl, it feels too large.

Copps is classic civic folly. Built for the NHL team we'll never get, too large to destroy (plus it's paid for so it’s cheap), and in a prime location. Building a new 8-10k arena would be the most stupid thing the city could do, so I sort of expect they will. Unfortunately, I think the best course is keep doing what they're doing (concerts, events, etc), and find another AHL/OHL team. Or both. And hope and pray we get considered if/when the NHL looks at the GTA for expansion(a massive long shot).
I think you are spot-on with this. Obviously what Hamilton should have is something with closer to twelve thousand seats than twenty, but since Copps was built, we may as well keep it instead of wasting money on something new. I saw a sold-out concert there last year, and to a layman it’s a good-enough venue. What proportion of its revenues would have come from the Bulldogs as opposed to the concerts and other events?

I’ve been convinced by people who hold this opinion that an OHL team will not do well in an arena that is simply too large for it. I’m from London, and the John Labatt Centre (which I admit I didn’t expect to do as well as it has) is the perfect venue for the Knights. It is the perfect size for them, and they sell it out often, and it is a very good hockey experience for the spectators. Obviously it’s not the only factor, but when they were at the Ice House in the south end, they didn’t do nearly as well. I do think the ideal nature of the venue is part of their success. An OHL team in Hamilton won’t have that, and Copps will never be the right venue for an OHL team. But, hey, if one wants to come here for a while, so much the better.
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  #1464  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2015, 3:28 PM
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Ya I agree. Keep leasing it out to concerts and events. This year they've had a couple 17 000 sold out concerts. The private managers are doing a decent job of booking the place.

I guess they could use this curtain system like BC Place, but it may obstruct the views from the pressbox.



Also does anyone know if the upper bowl seats have been replaced to match the lower bowl? If not are there plans in place to have this done? I think once all the seats are replaced to dark blue it would be nice to paint the press box a different colour than that bright orange.
I haven't seen that BC Place setup before. I like it. A lot.

Move the press box for hockey games elsewhere. It's not as though AHL/OHL games have 100s of press attending. You'll get what, a Spec reporter, the visiting team press, and maybe a few others?

Imagine sheeting like that at Copps- it would absolutely make the space more intimate for hockey games, and I'm betting would be decent for making the place louder too.
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  #1465  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2015, 3:32 PM
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Originally Posted by HillStreetBlues View Post
I think you are spot-on with this. Obviously what Hamilton should have is something with closer to twelve thousand seats than twenty, but since Copps was built, we may as well keep it instead of wasting money on something new. I saw a sold-out concert there last year, and to a layman it’s a good-enough venue. What proportion of its revenues would have come from the Bulldogs as opposed to the concerts and other events?

I’ve been convinced by people who hold this opinion that an OHL team will not do well in an arena that is simply too large for it. I’m from London, and the John Labatt Centre (which I admit I didn’t expect to do as well as it has) is the perfect venue for the Knights. It is the perfect size for them, and they sell it out often, and it is a very good hockey experience for the spectators. Obviously it’s not the only factor, but when they were at the Ice House in the south end, they didn’t do nearly as well. I do think the ideal nature of the venue is part of their success. An OHL team in Hamilton won’t have that, and Copps will never be the right venue for an OHL team. But, hey, if one wants to come here for a while, so much the better.
It's absolutely too large for an OHL team at full capacity.

Same with AHL. Even a 10k seating arena would be too large for an OHL team in my opinion (5,000 is best IMO), and on the edge of too big for the AHL.

The lower bowl seating at Copps fits 8,819- which is perfect. They just need to figure out a way to make it 'convertible'- big when you need it for concerts, etc., and small when you need it for hockey. A bit of thinking outside of the box and Copps could actually be a pretty awesome venue for all types of events. And they should be aggressively going after AHL and OHL tenants- why not have both if they can swing the schedules to fit?
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  #1466  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2015, 3:37 PM
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I doubt it (at least, not in the next year or two). A bunch of the teams are moving to California to start a new pacific division. Maybe Buffalo's affiliate, but I don't know who or where they are?
I doubt the Rochester Americans are coming to Hamilton. That team has been in Rochester forever and is pretty well supported.

The trend is for teams to have their affiliates closer to them- perhaps a play for the Binghamton Senators.

It's unfortunate that the Marlies ended up in Toronto while we had the Bulldogs, because they're pretty much ignored here (in Toronto), and I think that would have been the ideal AHL team for Hamilton that would have guaranteed attendance and actual fandom. Hindsight is 20/20, but it may have been interesting in the past if a play for the Marlies had been made and Copps had been made available to MLSE for purchase.
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  #1467  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2015, 4:12 PM
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The lower bowl seating at Copps fits 8,819- which is perfect. They just need to figure out a way to make it 'convertible'- big when you need it for concerts, etc., and small when you need it for hockey.
I guess you guys don't go to Bulldog games? They already close in the upper bowl with a black curtain for Bulldog games giving the feel of a smaller arena. They have opened up the upper bowl during the playoffs and Marlie games. They do sometimes forget to close all or part of it.



The open section in the middle has overflow of hockey scouts and media people.
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  #1468  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2015, 4:43 PM
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I guess you guys don't go to Bulldog games? They already close in the upper bowl with a black curtain for Bulldog games giving the feel of a smaller arena. They have opened up the upper bowl during the playoffs and Marlie games. They do sometimes forget to close all or part of it.



The open section in the middle has overflow of hockey scouts and media people.
No, I've seen the curtains- I'm talking something that is a bit more enclosed to shrink the space.
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  #1469  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2015, 5:05 PM
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Any idea how many people the Dave Andreychuk can hold? Would that be OHL-appropriate, or is it too small?
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  #1470  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2015, 5:41 PM
Gurnett71 Gurnett71 is offline
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Any idea how many people the Dave Andreychuk can hold? Would that be OHL-appropriate, or is it too small?
Around 2500 according to wikipedia, and probably too small for OHL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_An...Skating_Centre

If my memory serves correctly, and often it doesn't, seats from the old CNE Stadium were installed at Mountain Arena awhile ago and I think this picture may reinforce that point: http://www.roamingtherinks.com/mountainarena.htm
Maybe someone on this board can confirm that.
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  #1471  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2015, 5:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mattgrande View Post
Any idea how many people the Dave Andreychuk can hold? Would that be OHL-appropriate, or is it too small?

Far too small and no high end suites. St kitts just replaced their 3500 seat arena with a $50 million 5000 seat arena with all the bells and whistles.
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  #1472  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2015, 5:53 PM
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I guess you guys don't go to Bulldog games? They already close in the upper bowl with a black curtain for Bulldog games giving the feel of a smaller arena. They have opened up the upper bowl during the playoffs and Marlie games. They do sometimes forget to close all or part of it.



The open section in the middle has overflow of hockey scouts and media people.

We know about the curtains. Theyve been doing that for 20 years. We're talking about artificially lowering the roof and scoreboard like at bc place.
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  #1473  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2015, 12:04 AM
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^I don't see that as an issue, really. Copps is surprisingly intimate for a 17000-seat arena. And when the lower bowl is full and the curtains are drawn, even more so.

Re Copps as civic folly.

I guess so. I mean, we mustn't forget that it was the envy of Canadian hockey for some time. It was new and shiny and sexy - there's a reason it hosted Canada Cups and World Junior tournaments. And in those days, several teams were in dire straits - the Blues and Penguins in particular. Add to that the almost-expansion team that the league stole from Hamilton/ Ron Joyce in the early 90s. It's almost inconceivable the city didn't land an NHL team in those early years.

Going forward, I'm certainly less hopeful than I was in the 80s and, actually, I couldn't care less at this point. Regardless of what happens with hockey in this city, there are distinct benefits to having a large arena rather than something miniscule meant only for junior hockey. This is a good 'problem' to have.
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  #1474  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2015, 1:34 AM
Mikey563 Mikey563 is offline
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Edmonton Oil Kings , Calgary Hitmen and Vancouver Giants of WHL play NHL arena and they draw fans well some goes as high as 10,000 - 15,000 during playoffs game.


I was at Edmonton Oil Kings and Portland of WHL Championship final in 2012 draw 16, 000 fans as Edmonton won the championship at home.
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  #1475  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2015, 2:49 AM
king10 king10 is offline
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Edmonton Oil Kings , Calgary Hitmen and Vancouver Giants of WHL play NHL arena and they draw fans well some goes as high as 10,000 - 15,000 during playoffs game.


I was at Edmonton Oil Kings and Portland of WHL Championship final in 2012 draw 16, 000 fans as Edmonton won the championship at home.
Those western teams arent hamilton though. The GTA has a different mindset than out west. Different mindset for sure. Theres a reason why st mikes and brampton failed in the GTA. Jr team here wouldnt draw those numbers, just like it didnt in the past. I mean theres already jr teams in niagara guelph kitchener missisauga. Hamilton wanted an nhl team because it wanted to be playing against cities like new york and LA. An ohl game against niagara or belleville or owen sound just wont draw well in hamilton.
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  #1476  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2015, 8:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce View Post
^I don't see that as an issue, really. Copps is surprisingly intimate for a 17000-seat arena. And when the lower bowl is full and the curtains are drawn, even more so.

Re Copps as civic folly.

I guess so. I mean, we mustn't forget that it was the envy of Canadian hockey for some time. It was new and shiny and sexy - there's a reason it hosted Canada Cups and World Junior tournaments. And in those days, several teams were in dire straits - the Blues and Penguins in particular. Add to that the almost-expansion team that the league stole from Hamilton/ Ron Joyce in the early 90s. It's almost inconceivable the city didn't land an NHL team in those early years.

Going forward, I'm certainly less hopeful than I was in the 80s and, actually, I couldn't care less at this point. Regardless of what happens with hockey in this city, there are distinct benefits to having a large arena rather than something miniscule meant only for junior hockey. This is a good 'problem' to have.
Meh. The arena was the 'envy' of Canadian hockey for about 5 years and then it became old news and almost a punchline once it became apparent the NHL never really wanted us.

The Canada Cup and WJuniors were in 87 and 90 respectively! Hindsight is 20/20, but Copps was built in sort of a no mans land right before arenas changed drastically in North America - becoming all about private boxes, 'premium' concessions, etc.

I suppose it's nice to have, but the 'folly' is more about jumping BEFORE the NHL even said jump, and ending up with a facility that is just too big for most things it is needed for.
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  #1477  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2015, 1:09 AM
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Meh. The arena was the 'envy' of Canadian hockey for about 5 years and then it became old news and almost a punchline once it became apparent the NHL never really wanted us.

The Canada Cup and WJuniors were in 87 and 90 respectively! Hindsight is 20/20, but Copps was built in sort of a no mans land right before arenas changed drastically in North America - becoming all about private boxes, 'premium' concessions, etc.

I suppose it's nice to have, but the 'folly' is more about jumping BEFORE the NHL even said jump, and ending up with a facility that is just too big for most things it is needed for.
The World Juniors were actually in 1986, while a second Canada Cup final was held at Copps in 1991.

Those events were a long time ago, but the arena has continued to host many big-ticket events and concerts that largely would not have been possible to hold in Hamilton without it. (Canada Cups, World Juniors, NHL regular season games, NBA regular season games, U2, Springsteen multiple times, Grateful Dead, various hot boy/girl bands, WWE, monster trucks, Disney on Ice, et cetera). The Shania Twain tour is making a stop in Hamilton, while Calgary did not get included because the Saddledome does not meet the technical specs to accommodate her gear.

Granted, some of these would have been possible in a smaller arena, and granted, it is far too big for the AHL or OHL, but I think it has become part of Hamilton's identity and I think the city is much better off for having constructed the place.
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  #1478  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2015, 2:41 AM
Mikey563 Mikey563 is offline
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Hamilton will never ever get NHL team because Buffalo will object this because some fans there were from Canada.
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  #1479  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2015, 5:26 AM
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The World Juniors were actually in 1986, while a second Canada Cup final was held at Copps in 1991.

Those events were a long time ago, but the arena has continued to host many big-ticket events and concerts that largely would not have been possible to hold in Hamilton without it. (Canada Cups, World Juniors, NHL regular season games, NBA regular season games, U2, Springsteen multiple times, Grateful Dead, various hot boy/girl bands, WWE, monster trucks, Disney on Ice, et cetera). The Shania Twain tour is making a stop in Hamilton, while Calgary did not get included because the Saddledome does not meet the technical specs to accommodate her gear.

Granted, some of these would have been possible in a smaller arena, and granted, it is far too big for the AHL or OHL, but I think it has become part of Hamilton's identity and I think the city is much better off for having constructed the place.
The Juno Awards: 6 times in Hamilton
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  #1480  
Old Posted Mar 12, 2015, 9:37 PM
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Andlauer says he has sold his interest in AHL franchise, purchased the @OHLBulls


https://twitter.com/TeriatTheSpec/st...102721/photo/1

Belleville Bulls will be renamed to Bulldogs.
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