Should Canada Be Preparing for a Destabilized USA?

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

please show me some evidence that I am "an ardent Hillary supporter".

FWIW, the sum of all your posts in the US Election thread is pretty compelling evidence. People have been labeled Trump supporters for much less.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by flipv

Ha I love you ardent Hillary supporters.

You are intellectually dishonest, lazy and shallow. One doesn't have to even dig far to realize what a vile individual this creature is and I'm not talking about Trump. At least I'd know what I'm getting with him, not with that hellish being in pantsuits who is just itching to start the next big war, the next big thing.

No, you can't know what you're getting with Trump, because he changes his mind every five minutes. Trump is certainly incoherent and anti-intellectual to say the least.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by flipv

Ha I love you ardent Hillary supporters.

You are intellectually dishonest, lazy and shallow. One doesn't have to even dig far to realize what a vile individual this creature is and I'm not talking about Trump. At least I'd know what I'm getting with him, not with that hellish being in pantsuits who is just itching to start the next big war, the next big thing.

You are entitled to your opinion and I can appreciate where you are coming from (both literally and figuratively).

I'd say there are no easy choices in this one, and while Americans, like you and I, are of course free to have their opinions as well, I am not sure that voting for Any Guy just because he isn't The Witch is necessarily the best course of action.

Anyway, it will be interesting to watch tonight.

[niwell]

I find it interesting how certain people like to place personal responsibility on HRC for everything that happened in the Balkans as if she was some despotic dictator. That's not exactly how things work in American geopolitics.

I know the Clinton's have a legacy in Kosovo and people from the area have strong opinions, but it seems far from black and white.

[flipv]

I'd vote for Trump not because he's my kind of candidate, or he represents my views (some maybe such as NATO) but because that whole American establishment needs a swift kick in the ass. Note how none of the ex republican presidents support him. Not a single high ranking republican or tycoon. He is anti establishment. He will facilitate a mature change in americas internal and external policies. He is the impetus for change. Hillary is the embodiment of the problem. I'm as shocked as anyone that a bombastic real estate tycoon is the face of anti establishment but here we are.

I can't believe how many otherwise intelligent people got roped into this. Hillary is a guarantee that nothing will change. Trump is a guarantee plenty of things will change - and not by him but because of him (and his actions).

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Is there much immigration into Newfoundland and Labrador? Seems like the places that get the least tend to fret about it the most.

Eh what are you on?

immigration is a permanent subsidy for the GTA and Vancouver.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by flipv

I'd vote for Trump not because he's my kind of candidate, or he represents my views (some maybe such as NATO) but because that whole American establishment needs a swift kick in the ass. Note how none of the ex republican presidents support him. Not a single high ranking republican or tycoon. He is anti establishment. He will facilitate a mature change in americas internal and external policies. He is the impetus for change. Hillary is the embodiment of the problem.

I can't believe how many otherwise intelligent people got roped into this. Hillary is a guarantee that nothing will change. Trump is a guarantee plenty of things will change - and not by him but because of him (and his actions).

Nah seriously it seems like anyone that has a bullshit filter understands this.

This election to me is so much more about supporting the establishment versus tearing down the walls.

I think the biggest problem in american politics is that no matter how nobel or idealized a person may be they fall victim and trap to the machine of politics. Donald trump has been taking an axe to that crap.

He's gonna be turned into a legend over time, once people realize what is actually at stake.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Architype

No, you can't know what you're getting with Trump, because he changes his mind every five minutes.

Hillary does that as well, so in theory you can't know what you're actually getting with any of these two. They say anything they think is what the people want to hear.

(In practice, though, it's easier to guess what Hillary's true positions are, even if the contrary is being said (say, on the TPP), so she's still more predictable than Trump. The markets of course agree as well.)

[Architype]

Originally Posted by flipv

I'd vote for Trump not because he's my kind of candidate, or he represents my views (some maybe such as NATO) but because that whole American establishment needs a swift kick in the ass. Note how none of the ex republican presidents support him. Not a single high ranking republican or tycoon. He is anti establishment. He will facilitate a mature change in americas internal and external policies. He is the impetus for change. Hillary is the embodiment of the problem. I'm as shocked as anyone that a bombastic real estate tycoon is the face of anti establishment but here we are.

I can't believe how many otherwise intelligent people got roped into this. Hillary is a guarantee that nothing will change. Trump is a guarantee plenty of things will change - and not by him but because of him (and his actions).

For those who want change, and most people do; life will go on after. There is an awareness which will carry on after Trump (assuming he loses). The best alternative for change was Sanders, but that's history now. Trump just isn't capable of making rational decisions.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by lio45

Interesting to have the perspective of people like kool maudit and you on this election (who have seen firsthand HRC's fingerprints on the ex-Yugoslavia mess). It's... a stronger reaction than I'd have expected.

Well, there are pro-Clinton views there as well. They're a minority, of course - though that's by design in some areas.

https://theintercept.com/2016/08/16/...ally-belgrade/

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Stryker

Nah seriously it seems like anyone that has a bullshit filter understands this.

This election to me is so much more about supporting the establishment versus tearing down the walls.

I think the biggest problem in american politics is that no matter how nobel or idealized a person may be they fall victim and trap to the machine of politics. Donald trump has been taking an axe to that crap.

He's gonna be turned into a legend over time, once people realize what is actually at stake.

I admit to having given some thought to this, but is there even 0.0001% of Trump's supporters who are in it for this, who are even thinking about this? Even Trump himself?

I suppose that, ultimately, for the tiny group of people who want to upset the apple cart, the end justifies the means. And Trump supporters who want to "make America great again" are just pawns in a high-stakes poker game.

I don't think they'll win today, but if they pull off the upset, it'll be what they refer to in sports as a really ugly win.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by lio45

Hillary does that as well, so in theory you can't know what you're actually getting with any of these two. They say anything they think is what the people want to hear.

(In practice, though, it's easier to guess what Hillary's true positions are, even if the contrary is being said (say, on the TPP), so she's still more predictable than Trump. The markets of course agree as well.)

Any rational person can change their mind based on logical and informed processes. Trump changes his mind because he hasn't actually thought anything through, he thinks on the fly.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Architype

The best alternative for change was Sanders, but that's history now.

Actually, in the US system you can't really hope to have change unless you have Congress on board as well, regardless of who's President.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Architype

Any rational person can change their mind based on logical and informed processes. Trump changes his mind because he hasn't actually thought anything through, he thinks on the fly.

Isn't that what is usually known as a "flip-flop" in the case of politicians?

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I admit to having given some thought to this, but is there even 0.0001% of Trump's supporters who are in it for this, who are even thinking about this? Even Trump himself?

I suppose that, ultimately, for the tiny group of people who want to upset the apple cart, the end justifies the means. And Trump supporters who want to "make America great again" are just pawns in a high-stakes poker game.

I don't think they'll win today, but if they pull off the upset, it'll be what they refer to in sports as a really ugly win.

It's just not worth it. The sexism, racism, and instability are the primary concerns for me. Tearing down the system and building something new, potentially even better, in its place is all well and good - but that end isn't justified by these particularly offensive means.

What world order would Trump's supporters possibly erect in its place? Feudal city states? Humvees for everyone?

That last poll of Canadians showed lots would support some of Trump's policies - ending NAFTA, for example - all of these things can be done by someone without the need for such overt sexism, racism, and instability. It is possible.

The reason it's not happening is because that's not what this is about. It's a dying gasp from angry, old, white men who are struggling to come to terms with the fact they're no longer solely in charge. "Running against the new America is not the way to win elections in the new America."

And as a gay man - Pence? Come on. You'd have to go to Africa to find a more dangerously homophobic politician near such a high position.

I'll take my chances with Clinton. I think she's a fantastic candidate and I love most of her positions. My only real concern with her is that she's a bit of a hawk and is likely to support American military intervention anywhere possible, but that worries me less than Trump.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by lio45

Actually, in the US system you can't really hope to have change unless you have Congress on board as well, regardless of who's President.

Which is why Sanders would have been a completely ineffectual President, imho.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Architype

Any rational person can change their mind based on logical and informed processes. Trump changes his mind because he hasn't actually thought anything through, he thinks on the fly.

Yeah, but HRC says she has "public positions", meant for suckers to swallow at election time, and "private positions", meant to be actual policy orientation.

It's not just changing one's mind once, from older position A to newer position B, permanently.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

...

The reason it's not happening is because that's not what this is about. It's a dying gasp from angry, old, white men who are struggling to come to terms with the fact they're no longer solely in charge. ....

Very good post, but I have to point out the irony of who better to tell them this than Bernie Sanders.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by lio45

Yeah, but HRC says she has "public positions", meant for suckers to swallow at election time, and "private positions", meant to be actual policy orientation.

I hate to break it to you, but you are describing virtually every politician, anywhere. The only difference is we got to see more of the internal workings of Hillary's campaign than any previous in history. And the results were completely underwhelming in terms of actual scandal.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by Architype

Very good post, but I have to point out the irony of who better to tell them this than Bernie Sanders.

Yeah. He's been on the right side of history for a long time.