Urban Design in Edmonton - Page 3

noodlenoodle · #41 Posted **Oct 14, 2016, 2:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcc16

Agree with Kevin, and furthermore, I'd like to once again ask the mods if non construction related posts should be removed. This is just ridiculous. I think noodle underestimates the amount of colds in our city, and cold underestimates the number of noodles happy being noodles.

You realize I'm every bit as much the no-kids-having, centrally-living, walking-when-possible, internationally-travelling, late-30s guy that Ian is? We're extremely similar across the board. The difference is that I'm cognizant I'm not the norm. I do what I can to live the life I want to live & accepting of the fact that other people's perfectly valid choices, lifestyles, opinions et al may preclude me from getting everything that I want (just like it cuts the other way).

The difference is I'm mindful of context. Also, I don't expect people to have the same priorities & to sacrifice their own quality of life to push my agenda. And I reserve my disrespect & intolerance for those that don't reserve theirs.

Xelebes · #42 Posted **Oct 14, 2016, 3:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by noodlenoodle

You start off with "I find it odd that my perceived condescension is in fact simple ways to enjoy an urban lifestyle" and then immediately start pushing the urban lifestyle over the suburban one & imply its inherent superiority. It's not perceived condescension. It's directly implied in everything you say & do.

Fair point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by noodlenoodle

You're literally the least empathic, least self-aware & most arrogant person I've ever come across on local forums. The fact you're completely blind to how you portray yourself is hilarious & the sole reason I don't just throw you on ignore. You're completely immune to criticism in your own mind & I envy your strength of convictions about just how right you must always be, even if I think you're completely wrong on many, many issues.

Not a fair point. You ask him to stop, you have to stop doing it yourself.

ue · #43 Posted **Oct 20, 2016, 2:25 AM**

I was randomly perusing downtown and Oliver on Google Maps this evening for the first time in a long time and looking at this area from a birds eye view, it really brings home just how much utterly wasted space there is in our core. And to think, it was so much worse before the Ice District, and yet, that really although being a huge plot of wasted space gone, is only a sliver of the overall picture.

It's not even just in places like the BP Lands or Commonwealth Lands or Oliver Square, places that are easy to namedrop as being underutilized. Even relatively built up areas like the area around McKay Ave on 99 Ave or Capital Blvd from the Dennys down to the foot of the Federal Building or small and large plots within Grandin, it's quite ridiculous how empty a lot of our central land still is. It just kinda goes to show that despite all the new construction and progress, there is still so far to go. Really only the immediate Financial core and pockets of Oliver are built out.

I hope that we can begin to strike a balance between huge scaled projects like the Ice District and filling in smaller gaps like this.

Hardhatdan · #44 Posted **Oct 20, 2016, 2:29 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ue

I was randomly perusing downtown and Oliver on Google Maps this evening for the first time in a long time and looking at this area from a birds eye view, it really brings home just how much utterly wasted space there is in our core. And to think, it was so much worse before the Ice District, and yet, that really although being a huge plot of wasted space gone, is only a sliver of the overall picture.

It's not even just in places like the BP Lands or Commonwealth Lands or Oliver Square, places that are easy to namedrop as being underutilized. Even relatively built up areas like the area around McKay Ave on 99 Ave or Capital Blvd from the Dennys down to the foot of the Federal Building or small and large plots within Grandin, it's quite ridiculous how empty a lot of our central land still is. It just kinda goes to show that despite all the new construction and progress, there is still so far to go. Really only the immediate Financial core and pockets of Oliver are built out.

Go look at west jasper ave right between about 113st and 116st...empty lots, vacancies, car dealership. Lots of 1 story disposable buildings filled with very random businesses. It's almost bombed out feeling.
Such a strange little strip and a little further west there is a bit more on the north side, but no vacant lots.
West Jasper is stuck right now in this weird transition and the "urban fabric" has a lot of pock marks despite overall having quite a few good things to go to.

ue · #45 Posted **Oct 20, 2016, 2:34 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardhatdan

Go look at west jasper ave right between about 113st and 116st...empty lots, vacancies, car dealership. Lots of 1 story disposable buildings filled with very random businesses. It's almost bombed out feeling.
Such a strange little strip and a little further west there is a bit more on the north side, but no vacant lots.
West Jasper is stuck right now in this weird transition and the "urban fabric" has a lot of pock marks despite overall having quite a few good things to go to.

Yes, I agree. I thought of West Jasper too and almost mentioned it, but it also seemed like an easy to name place a la the Commonwealth Lands. West Jasper Ave is a total embarrassment for our densest neighbourhood. It's actually more shocking that a neighbourhood that is so dense, so walkable both north and south of the avenue has such a shitty main drag. I don't know how this is possible in this day and age, really. We have 104 Ave for thoroughfare traffic. It's just baffling, really. There are a few good stretches, but it's all broken up, piecemeal fashion, and only exists for a block at best, on one side of the avenue.

feepa · #46 Posted **Oct 20, 2016, 2:06 PM**

those <many> empty lots will fill up over time, when the land owner feels the time is right for them, not us. We can try to create incentives to build, or raise taxes for unimproved properties, but still the onus is on the owner, and has little to do with the wishes of people on a forum, or the city as a whole.

In terms of fixing Jasper Ave West, the best thing to happen will be when Edmonton Motors moves out which should happen in the short to medium term.

The city should fight owners who choose to tear down existing buildings and turn them into empty lots or parking lots. I'm looking at you, NE corner of 116/Jasper ave, for example.

Coldrsx · #47 Posted **Oct 20, 2016, 2:09 PM**

We need another decade of solid growth for central Edmonton to get to become a respectable and continuous urban core.

10000 more people downtown and another 5 in Oliver.

kcantor · #48 Posted **Oct 20, 2016, 4:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by feepa

those <many> empty lots will fill up over time, when the land owner feels the time is right for them, not us. We can try to create incentives to build, or raise taxes for unimproved properties, but still the onus is on the owner, and has little to do with the wishes of people on a forum, or the city as a whole.

In terms of fixing Jasper Ave West, the best thing to happen will be when Edmonton Motors moves out which should happen in the short to medium term.

The city should fight owners who choose to tear down existing buildings and turn them into empty lots or parking lots. I'm looking at you, NE corner of 116/Jasper ave, for example.

emphasis added...

if there is no market for a finished product at a reasonable expectation of profit, raising the taxes won't shorten the development time frame.

at best it will have the unintended consequence of encouraging the development of more "crap" in order to get out from under as quickly and as cheaply as possible. and when that doesn't work, the city will end up owning those parcels as tax foreclosures and will lose the base taxes as well as never receiving the increased tax.

i.e. if you have lot worth 100k and it takes 300k to build a new home that you would only be able to sell for 275k in the current market, you're not going to build that home even if the taxes go from 2k to 3k or 5k or 10k. at some point you will look at and say the market isn't go recover for 10 years and you'll walk away because it will never recover enough quickly enough to reimburse you for the added carrying costs even if you could afford to pay them.

CMD UW · #49 Posted **Oct 20, 2016, 8:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHOFEAR

Guarantee you that a good chunk of people living in those cramped and dense year round patio cities would trade it all in for the kinds of back yards we enjoy here.

You sir are more than likely right.

McBoo · #50 Posted **Oct 20, 2016, 9:29 PM**

Experiencing a city, especially a big one as a tourist is nowhere near the same as experiencing it as a resident, especially if your income mandates that you live far from the core.

Coldrsx · #51 Posted **Oct 20, 2016, 9:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMD UW

You sir are more than likely right.

100% disagree. Some sure, many, not likely. A house with a backyard in Edmonton or a flat in central Paris... NO CONTEST.

feepa · #52 Posted **Oct 20, 2016, 10:29 PM**

I'll take a backyard in Edmonton. Central Paris is a nice place to visit, not sure I would want to live there.
I hope the urban design folks in this thread realize that not everyone wants to live in a flat in central Paris or central Edmonton for that matter. Some people like their private space. hence why suburbs have been the preferred choice for the majority of people in north america since World War II.
I'm not going to look down my nose at those who a choice of their preference though. I'll support what ever lifestyle people will make, and respect them for that.

feepa · #53 Posted **Oct 20, 2016, 10:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by McBoo

Experiencing a city, especially a big one as a tourist is nowhere near the same as experiencing it as a resident, especially if your income mandates that you live far from the core.

Something many tourists don't seem to get... Point in case above.

Coldrsx · #54 Posted **Oct 20, 2016, 10:32 PM**

Most people want some private space, yes, but many also want a vibrant neighbourhood with amenities, parks, services that you can walk to. This is not unique to central Edmonton, but city-wide.

Public spaces and urban hoods need to continue to work on making them inclusive, inviting and get that important critical mass.

Daveography · #55 Posted **Oct 21, 2016, 1:34 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by McBoo

Experiencing a city, especially a big one as a tourist is nowhere near the same as experiencing it as a resident, especially if your income mandates that you live far from the core.

Are those cities made up entirely of tourists then?

noodlenoodle · #56 Posted **Oct 21, 2016, 1:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by feepa

I
I hope the urban design folks in this thread realize that not everyone wants to live in a flat in central Paris or central Edmonton for that matter. Some people like their private space. hence why suburbs have been the preferred choice for the majority of people in north america since World War II.

Hell, even central, urban Paris has dropped in population over the last 60 years. But that's not something you'd notice drinking Kronenbourgs at a café in the 11th arrondissement.

The desire for private, personal space is not unique to North Americans, but it's far easier to accommodate the desire on our continent.

Coldrsx · #57 Posted **Oct 21, 2016, 3:13 PM**

It most certainly is, but the shame is that we do not put enough investment/interest/innovation into our public spaces generally speaking.

feepa · #58 Posted **Oct 21, 2016, 3:16 PM**

^ do you feel this way just because North American's aren't to up to being on a cold patio at +5 C?

Coldrsx · #59 Posted **Oct 21, 2016, 3:20 PM**

No, I feel this way because we tend to over-prioritize private space here and silo ourselves versus enriching our society and culture by being within it more often.

noodlenoodle · #60 Posted **Oct 21, 2016, 3:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

It most certainly is, but the shame is that we do not put enough investment/interest/innovation into our public spaces generally speaking.

We do a good-to-great job with public spaces, like parks, plazas, rec centres, libraries, trails, footbridges & public attractions like Fort Edmonton & TWOS.

Patios aren't public areas. They're private businesses subject to market forces, those same market forces you choose to ignore every time you go on a rant about how patios close too early for your tastes.

My wife adores Edmonton's balance between public & private spaces, far more than her native Sweden (except for the lack of Allemansrätten, but that's a major cultural difference.)