Retail Scene in Downtown Halifax

[ILoveHalifax]

About a week ago, I indicated that there are a lot of empty retail spaces in Downtown Halifax.
Here is my list from a short walk today. There are 2 empty spaces opposite Super store on Barrington, also 1235, 1259, office at 1625, retail at 1591?, 1672, office at 1678, retail at 1684, 1727.
There is a whole building next to Split Crow on Granville, also 1885, 1889, 1891. There are 8 empty spaces in Barrington Place on the main level, some of these are 3 bays each, also a couple on the lower level.
In Historic Properties the Red Store Building seems to have 2 vacant spaces and the Market Mall has 5 empty spaces. London Loft seems to be closed every time I go by.
In the Spring Garden area there is a space at 5431 Doyle and I see leasing signs on the back of the old TD location. On SGR 5507 is closed for the last few months even though there is still stuff in there, also 5517 and 5523. Park Lane has 3 on the main level and at least 1 on the lower level.

[someone123]

Seems like a pretty small list. Spring Garden Road has 200+ stores in total.

How many of these empty retail spots aren't related to renovations and redevelopment projects where the landlords chose not to renew tenants' leases? This is what happened in the Roy Building, for example. That sort of stuff is actually more of a positive than a negative sign.

A harder to answer but still relevant question has to do with "frictional" vacancies from tenants moving around, relocating, or going out of business for reasons that have nothing to do with their particular location (one clear example is HMV, and a lot of mom and pop places close down because people just want to retire or whatever). If you go to the busiest, most expensive retail areas in North America you will see some of these vacancies.

My impression of the downtown retail scene is that Spring Garden Road is pretty successful, Barrington is OK (and will probably get better as some of the current projects wrap up), and the north end of downtown has a bunch of structural problems related to how it's set up. Hopefully those will be fixed over the next couple of years.

[Drybrain]

SGR seems like normal turnover (no retail strip stays at 100 per cent occupancy for long). The Barrington list doesn't seem bad at all--10 empty spaces over about 12 blocks, a big chunk of which are due to the Roy.

Trouble spot seems to be Granville and Barrington Place mall--like Someone123, I that has a lot to do with the how the north part of downtown has been negatively affected by bad infrastructure ( i.e., pedestrian access from only one side, due to the Cogswell, which swallows up the north access points in a hostile no-go zone).

People go to SGR to shop, and to the extent they wander north it's up Barrington. Granville is too far for the SGR crowd. There's nothing wrong with Granville itself--it's what surrounds it.

I wonder what would happen if it were de-pedestrian mall-ed. Such experiments have rarely seemed to work, and more effective might be the woonerf approach. Cars are not banned, but they don't dominate the traffic; instead they're just one user among many. Also see: a naked street, like London's recently re-engineered Exhibition Road.

[essaysmith]

I think that to include the Barrington Place shops is a bit misleading as the owner is basically forcing out the retail shops to turn it into offices. Maritime Travel is one of the few that will be remaining. Just my 10 cents.

[Nifta]

Disappointing to hear Barrington Place will be closing. But not a surprise, considering you needed a map and a guided tour to find the entrance to that mall. I've no surprise at all that customers never found the place. Completely anonymous at street level. There was no indication at all that there was actually a parade of shops inside the building!

[someone123]

Similarly it's no surprise that it's a struggle to find tenants for the northern end of Granville Mall. The Duke Street side meanwhile has more foot traffic, better accessibility, and better visibility, and has 2 successful long-term tenants (BP and Split Crow).

The Exhibition Road design looks quite nice. I think something like that would work well for Argyle Street. Unfortunately, Granville Mall's biggest problem is that it is a dead end, and that can only be solved by redeveloping the land to the north.

[ILoveHalifax]

Originally Posted by someone123

Seems like a pretty small list. Spring Garden Road has 200+ stores in total.

How many of these empty retail spots aren't related to renovations and redevelopment projects where the landlords chose not to renew tenants' leases? This is what happened in the Roy Building, for example. That sort of stuff is actually more of a positive than a negative sign.

A harder to answer but still relevant question has to do with "frictional" vacancies from tenants moving around, relocating, or going out of business for reasons that have nothing to do with their particular location (one clear example is HMV, and a lot of mom and pop places close down because people just want to retire or whatever). If you go to the busiest, most expensive retail areas in North America you will see some of these vacancies.

My impression of the downtown retail scene is that Spring Garden Road is pretty successful, Barrington is OK (and will probably get better as some of the current projects wrap up), and the north end of downtown has a bunch of structural problems related to how it's set up. Hopefully those will be fixed over the next couple of years.

My list did not include any places that are under construction or intended for construction, eg Roy Building. Most have been empty for several months with no signs of new tenants. If I were in retail, I would not consider any of the space because the street especially Barrington is looking rather dingy. There is not much on the street of great interest, no attractive windows. At no time was there anything across the street that I would bother to cross to take a look. So you can paint it however you like but this is my report from here on the ground.

[ILoveHalifax]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

SGR seems like normal turnover (no retail strip stays at 100 per cent occupancy for long). The Barrington list doesn't seem bad at all--10 empty spaces over about 12 blocks, a big chunk of which are due to the Roy.[/URL].

I did not in.clude The Roy Building in my list

[Waye Mason]

The former Delta meeting spaces and restaurant are being put where Barrington Place shops used to be and Goodlife is moving into Peddler's and the whole back of the building the Delta used to use. This will create foot traffic/destination at the north end of the mall.

Retail is challenging right now, the big thing the big and small, downtown and mall landlords are saying is people try stuff out in a store then go home and order it online, it is a new problem that will cause more change in the retail mix.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax

My list did not include any places that are under construction or intended for construction, eg Roy Building. Most have been empty for several months with no signs of new tenants.

Well, then that's worse, but it's still not too horrendous given the street's bad reputation.

Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax

If I were in retail, I would not consider any of the space because the street especially Barrington is looking rather dingy.

It's a good thing there are people actually in retail who disagree with that assessment, since new shops have opened up on Barrington, recently.

It's good to know where the trouble spots are, but is there a particular point to this exercise? Or were you just trying to disprove the notion suggested earlier that downtown is on the upswing?

[sdm]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

The former Delta meeting spaces and restaurant are being put where Barrington Place shops used to be and Goodlife is moving into Peddler's and the whole back of the building the Delta used to use. This will create foot traffic/destination at the north end of the mall.

Retail is challenging right now, the big thing the big and small, downtown and mall landlords are saying is people try stuff out in a store then go home and order it online, it is a new problem that will cause more change in the retail mix.

That isn't a new problem Wayne, been going on for years and has been building over time.

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by sdm

That isn't a new problem Wayne, been going on for years and has been building over time.

It's Waye, no N, no D, and it isn't new but it is now at the point that it is seriously impacting even Christmas sales, as we just saw.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by sdm

That isn't a new problem Wayne, been going on for years and has been building over time.

It's a bit misleading to think of this as a "problem" when it is a new reality of the economy that is not going to go away. On balance it's actually positive for society -- we get lower prices, less prime space is used for stores, and people can avoid physically shopping if they want to.

What I find strange is that a lot of retailers have responded by claiming that it's somehow morally wrong for shoppers to do this kind of thing. Whether or not it is wrong is irrelevant, and laying guilt trips on your customers will just drive them away. Seriously, how well do you expect your business to do if the only thing you offer is a storefront with stuff that is available online at a lower price?

Instead of complaining, business owners should be looking at selling stuff online themselves and focusing on goods and services that are either unique or don't really work online. Actually that's another amazing aspect of online shopping; it's much easier now to design and distribute products without middle-man retailers.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

It's Waye, no N, no D, and it isn't new but it is now at the point that it is seriously impacting even Christmas sales, as we just saw.

Sorry Waye without an N, or D.......

[sdm]

Originally Posted by someone123

It's a bit misleading to think of this as a "problem" when it is a new reality of the economy that is not going to go away. Seriously, how well do you expect your business to do if the only thing you offer is a storefront with stuff that is available online at a lower price?

Instead of complaining, business owners should be looking at selling stuff online themselves and focusing on goods and services that are either unique or don't really work online. Actually that's another amazing aspect of online shopping; it's much easier now to design and distribute products without middle-man retailers.

Bingo

I predict that within 5 years your big box stores like future shop will become reduced in size and will be more showroom, sampling and testing of products all in the order to boast online sales.

In order to make the downtown a success it will need to employ uniqueness. It simply a lot easier to go to the big box parks and malls then it is downtown. So if you can get it out in those areas then there is less incentive to come downtown.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by sdm

Bingo

I predict that within 5 years your big box stores like future shop will become reduced in size and will be more showroom, sampling and testing of products all in the order to boast online sales.

In order to make the downtown a success it will need to employ uniqueness. It simply a lot easier to go to the big box parks and malls then it is downtown. So if you can get it out in those areas then there is less incentive to come downtown.

Personally I think it's mostly simpler and easier because of car culture and suburbanization. When so many people live a long way out and so many people drive, both of those things will always skew the desirability of anything downtown. If we can create more in town density and more public transit and active transit usage, then the convenience factor will be firmly in downtown's favour.

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

It's Waye, no N, no D, and it isn't new but it is now at the point that it is seriously impacting even Christmas sales, as we just saw.

Wow, out of all the countless times I've seen your name both on here and on facebook such as in the transit chat group, this is the first time I've ever noticed it wasn't Wayne. That's astonishing to me!

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Personally I think it's mostly simpler and easier because of car culture and suburbanization. When so many people live a long way out and so many people drive, both of those things will always skew the desirability of anything downtown. If we can create more in town density and more public transit and active transit usage, then the convenience factor will be firmly in downtown's favour.

I think what you're talking about is building the downtown as its own community. Creating a market through population will make business owners see an opportunity to open a successful business in the area. If the market is big enough, then perhaps you will see some duplicate businesses from the suburbs make roots downtown.

However, if your goal is to attract others downtown, then you have to have businesses that offer goods or an experience different or better than is offered elsewhere. It's simple economics really. Businesses can't really exists just to provide a service to potential customers, they have to make money while doing it or they won't exist (for long).

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I think what you're talking about is building the downtown as its own community. Creating a market through population will make business owners see an opportunity to open a successful business in the area. If the market is big enough, then perhaps you will see some duplicate businesses from the suburbs make roots downtown.

However, if your goal is to attract others downtown, then you have to have businesses that offer goods or an experience different or better than is offered elsewhere. It's simple economics really. Businesses can't really exists just to provide a service to potential customers, they have to make money while doing it or they won't exist (for long).

Well it comes without saying that businesses need to be profitable. But if the goal is attracting businesses (and their patrons) downtown, I don't think holding the businesses to a higher standard and requiring them to be in some way exceptional is the best approach. That would be more of a disincentive for a business to locate there if they were required to exert a lot more effort for the same amount of profit as could be had elsewhere.

The way I see it, downtown is naturally going to be more attractive (if properly maintained) due to the architecture, history, etc. But I think downtown's real advantage is in being (or having the potential of being) "the common ground" as in the place where a huge variety of people meet for various reasons making it the most convenient. If someone wants to spend an evening going to a show, dining at a restaurant, shopping at several places, then going for a nightcap, having all of those in close proximity to one another, and a variety of options for each, could make it more appealing than say, Dartmouth Crossing which may not have every store they'd like to visit, or may only have a couple restaurants and not the exact one they wanted. If the alternative was going to Micmac mall, then DC, then perhaps another strip mall or plaza, downtown as a single destination can be more convenient. Especially since there are so many other things like employment, and the downtown centric bus routes.

Of course, the same could be said if any of those places were to gain the critical mass necessary to attract all of those things. I just happen to prefer downtown be the one to gain that momentum because I find it more interesting and it's a greener model. Ultimately what I want to see is if a business or service were to come to HRM and we're only large enough to have one location, for downtown to be the ideal choice, and having it locate in DC or Bayers Lake or HSC simply not be feasible. These places would only get the run off and the seconds once businesses expand outside downtown.

But of course in this sense downtown would have something special that the other places wouldn't. Not that each individual store would necessarily be better than locations elsewhere, but that there would be stores you couldn't find elsewhere or store combinations that you couldn't find in a single destination elsewhere.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

But of course in this sense downtown would have something special that the other places wouldn't. Not that each individual store would necessarily be better than locations elsewhere, but that there would be stores you couldn't find elsewhere or store combinations that you couldn't find in a single destination elsewhere.

Exactly.

I wasn't actually meaning that the downtown businesses would be held to a "higher standard", but actually that to attract people to the downtown from elsewhere, the restaurants would have to be better (they are) and in nicer, more interesting surroundings (they are). Bars would have to be nicer and more plentiful (which they are) and offer higher quality libations (think Stubborn Goat, Stillwell's, The Noble, for example). Shops would probably have to be higher end or unique brands or smaller local ownership (of which there are already several examples of each). This model has already been proven out, I think.

However, if you live in say, Dartmouth, I guarantee you are not going to go to downtown Halifax to shop in Home Depot or Best Buy as long as there is one close to your home with lots of (yikes!) parking. Therefore, in order to support businesses which have several locations, you need to build a community first to support it, which was the intent of my post.

[ILoveHalifax]

Canada is enjoying a big influx of new retailers across the country, Nordstrom, Saks, La Maison Simon, as well as other smaller but significant retailers. With any luck, and although these retailers are opening in larger cities first, just maybe by the time they are ready to look at Halifax, the downtown will have a population large enough to support these stores and they might actually locate downtown.