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  #201  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2019, 10:19 PM
BrownTown BrownTown is offline
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
I didn't. You did. It is an obvious point that I didn't think needed to be articulated.
You brought up the fact that managers could lose their job because their underlings screwed up like it was something unique to management. I pointed out that it was not unique at all. The fact you apparently agree contradicts your own post.
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  #202  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2019, 10:44 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by BrownTown View Post
You brought up the fact that managers could lose their job because their underlings screwed up like it was something unique to management. I pointed out that it was not unique at all. The fact you apparently agree contradicts your own post.
Yes, it is unique to management. If you aren't a manager then you are not held accountable for the work product of others. As a subordinate, you are not accountable for your boss's work product. As a subordinate, you can suffer job loss for bad decisions that are made outside of your control, but that is not the same as being the responsible person.
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  #203  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2019, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Yes, it is unique to management. If you aren't a manager then you are not held accountable for the work product of others. As a subordinate, you are not accountable for your boss's work product. As a subordinate, you can suffer job loss for bad decisions that are made outside of your control, but that is not the same as being the responsible person.
No manager can reasonably control what their people are doing every second of the day. You can try and foster the right sort of culture, but that doesn't stop stupid people from doing stupid things.
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  #204  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2019, 11:16 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by BrownTown View Post
No manager can reasonably control what their people are doing every second of the day. You can try and foster the right sort of culture, but that doesn't stop stupid people from doing stupid things.
Do you understand the point or not?
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  #205  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2019, 1:13 AM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Do you understand the point or not?
I understand your point, I just disagree with you.
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  #206  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2019, 8:38 PM
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No manager can reasonably control what their people are doing every second of the day. You can try and foster the right sort of culture, but that doesn't stop stupid people from doing stupid things.
Its all CYA. Covering your ass. You almost have to think like a lawyer to be truly effective.

Any effective manager will set the parameters right and the time tables correctly for due dates and so on.

I think the key is to build your teams as to be self sufficient. Don't rely on bullying tactics, don't become that type-A who makes everyone stress, and be firm, but to the point. Lay out the expectations and always set the mentality that if you don't know something, ask.

The problem is, a lot of folks in management rely to much on micromanaging, which only results in stress, and deviation from your other tasks. Just like a CEO tries to foster culture change, and build teams, a mid-management employee must do the same. If a CEO or VP were to micro everyone, nothing would get done. There is a time to delegate, and how one delegates is a skill to be had.

I still think building a team is the key, which requires leadership.

But a lot of them fail at this.
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  #207  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2019, 8:48 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by BrownTown View Post
I understand your point, I just disagree with you.
I'm not sure what there is to disagree with; this is just how things work, whether you realize it or not. We have these hierarchies precisely so that it is easy to pinpoint accountability. That is the science behind how large organizations work.
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  #208  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2019, 8:50 PM
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New York mayor says Amazon headquarters debacle was 'an abuse of corporate power'

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New York Mayor Bill de Blasio is still upset that Amazon isn't coming to New York.

De Blasio attacked the company Sunday for canceling plans to build a second headquarters in Queens last week.

"This is an example of an abuse of corporate power," de Blasio told NBC's Chuck Todd on "Meet the Press." "Amazon just took their ball and went home. And what they did was confirm people's worst fears about corporate America." He made similar comments in a New York Times op-ed Saturday.


Amazon (AMZN) canceled the deal just months after announcing plans to split its new, second headquarters between New York and Virginia. The Seattle-based company, which is trying to grow its footprint at home and abroad, spent a year reviewing hundreds of "HQ2" proposals from all over North America before settling on the two regions.

Last November, de Blasio cheered the news and promised that it would benefit locals, including residents of a large public-housing development located nearby.

But critics — including many Democrats — lambasted the massive subsidies that New York offered to lure Amazon, including $1.525 billion in incentives that were contingent on the company creating 25,000 new jobs with an average salary of $150,000.

On Sunday, de Blasio, a Democrat, said New York offered Amazon a "fair deal," and blamed the company for making what he called an "arbitrary" decision to leave after some people objected.

"They said they wanted a partnership, but the minute there were criticisms, they walked away," he added. "What does that say to working people that a company would leave them high and dry simply because some people raised criticisms?"


Amazon did not immediately respond to a request for comment about de Blasio's latest remarks. But the company last week criticized "a number of state and local politicians" who it said "have made it clear that they oppose our presence and will not work with us to build the type of relationships that are required" to complete the project.
============
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/17/tech/...hq2/index.html
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  #209  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2019, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
New York mayor says Amazon headquarters debacle was 'an abuse of corporate power'


============
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/17/tech/...hq2/index.html
^ True, but it’s just as much of an abuse by increasingly leftist progressives.

Their onerous and anti-business policies treat job creators like they deserve to be punished. The rhetoric-laced policies they push often make zero practical sense but win them votes. Meanwhile the cost of doing business is so high that the only way to set up shop or thrive as a business is to seek tax breaks or credits. This requires schmoozing the right politicians who act as gatekeepers, hence promoting corruption.

It’s all a big, fucking lie.
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  #210  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2019, 5:26 PM
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True, but it’s just as much of an abuse by increasingly leftist progressives
Oh please. If Amazon wanted to stay, they would have.
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  #211  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2019, 8:27 PM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
^ True, but it’s just as much of an abuse by increasingly leftist progressives.

Their onerous and anti-business policies treat job creators like they deserve to be punished. The rhetoric-laced policies they push often make zero practical sense but win them votes. Meanwhile the cost of doing business is so high that the only way to set up shop or thrive as a business is to seek tax breaks or credits. This requires schmoozing the right politicians who act as gatekeepers, hence promoting corruption.

It’s all a big, fucking lie.

So not giving the wealthiest corporation on the planet billion of tax players money is not anti-business?
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  #212  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2019, 8:36 PM
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So not giving the wealthiest corporation on the planet billion of tax players money is not anti-business?
Can you fix this double negative, it's confusing me.
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  #213  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2019, 8:50 PM
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Originally Posted by BrownTown View Post
Can you fix this double negative, it's confusing me.
^ I think he's trying to say the tired ol' "corporations are greedy and evil and we need to stop giving them our money!" line without even understanding what I just stated before that, or bothering to understand what the fixed costs of doing business in highly corrupt, populist-pandering environments are.
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  #214  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2019, 9:11 PM
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Amazon's biggest bull says it may be bluffing about nixed NYC HQ2

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One analyst isn’t convinced that Amazon.com Inc. is scuttling plans to open a second headquarters in New York City.

"On first blush, we believe Amazon may be bluffing," wrote Tom Forte, an analyst at DA Davidson, who has a Street-high price target of $2,450. Rather, the announcement may serve "as a means to get the government back to the table."

Shares of Amazon rose 0.5% in pre-market trading. On Thursday, the stock dipped 1.1%, a decline that snapped a three-day rally. The stock is up 8% thus far this year.

Amazon is "incredibly shrewd when it comes to lobbying and working with governments," Forte wrote in a note to clients. “We have a difficult time believing the company would have invested so much time and energy in selecting a second city for a new headquarters... only to throw in the towel on the first significant blowback.”


Those opposed to Amazon’s New York City plan frequently cited the benefits package offered to the company, including close to $3 billion in tax breaks and subsidies.

Forte, who has suggested that buy-rated Amazon expand its portfolio of physical stores by opening gas stations, said a major New York City location still made "geographic sense" for the company, given it is "advancing its important efforts in advertising and media," just as another office in Northern Virginia offered strategic proximity to Washington D.C.

An office in Long Island City, Queens, he continued, could be used "as a testing ground for a number of Amazon’s initiatives and, most importantly, to advance its delivery (including its first-party ones) efforts," in addition to providing "significant" access to talent.

Such factors may be more important than the size of the incentive deal, Forte implied, noting that the title of Amazon’s blog post, where the announcement was declared, read "Update on plans for New York City headquarters.”

That “sounds, to us, that this is not a final decision,” Forte said.
==================
https://www.crainsnewyork.com/opinio...-nixed-nyc-hq2
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  #215  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2019, 9:28 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
Amazon's biggest bull says it may be bluffing about nixed NYC HQ2


==================
https://www.crainsnewyork.com/opinio...-nixed-nyc-hq2
I don't buy it. I do think they will more quietly expand in NYC, similar to what Google and Facebook have done, but not in the form that HQ2 was supposed to take.
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  #216  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2019, 9:38 PM
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That's my inclination as well. But I think that it serves as a lesson for future companies that any sort of expansion should be discrete, and not made into a reality show like HQ 2.
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  #217  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2019, 9:46 PM
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Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
That's my inclination as well. But I think that it serves as a lesson for future companies that any sort of expansion should be discrete, and not made into a reality show like HQ 2.
Absolutely. No matter where they chose to go, it was always a huge risk that HQ2 would get a lot of heat for taking tax incentives. It is not hard to imagine that some places were eliminated for offering too much (Newark, Detroit).
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  #218  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2019, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by BrownTown View Post
I understand your point, I just disagree with you.
It's not a point of contention so you have nothing to disagree with - it would be like saying you disagreed with the idea that dogs aren't legally liable for things even though they can still be punished. That's not in dispute, it's just the way things are, so there's nothing to disagree with.
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  #219  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2019, 1:49 AM
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Originally Posted by emathias View Post
It's not a point of contention so you have nothing to disagree with - it would be like saying you disagreed with the idea that dogs aren't legally liable for things even though they can still be punished. That's not in dispute, it's just the way things are, so there's nothing to disagree with.
The poster said that potentially losing your job due to the actions of others is a unique condition to management. I proved it was not. Therefore I disagree with what he stated (because it's factually wrong).
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  #220  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2019, 5:10 AM
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What's interesting is that Bezos' soon to be ex-wife may probably end up with more money than the promised billions over many years that both NYC and DC will ever get. Put that in your pipes and smoke it. It's all good.
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