Mountain West Microbrew: Chit chat and irrelevancy

[Eeyore]

Originally Posted by Brainpathology

Is Cryo Egypt their ski area?

Fixed it......

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by Eeyore

The most outside of my comfort zone I have been was when I went to Machu Picchu and stayed in Cusco. I was funny when I landed in Cuzco cus I was trying to guess how big the town was and I was like not bad for 100,000 people. Then they told me how big it was, and i was like wow and remember thinking where is the downtown and tech park and medical center for a city that large. But they did have good restaurants. Trinidad and Tobago was about the same but I was in the main city for carnival so it was fun and festive and hot as hell. To be honest I have no desire to visit Libya but if things do settle down I would visit Cairo Egypt or Jerusalem but I am not holding my breath.

Cairo is perfectly fine to go to. Although, if that's your reaction to Cuzco, I'm not sure you're ready for Cairo. Let me know before you go and I'll give the Embassy a heads up that you're coming.

Jerusalem too. Nothing security-wise there that should really concern the average tourist. You're more likely to die in Pueblo.

I'll go with to Dubai too, just let me know when the uber-forum-meet is going to be. Old Dubai doesn't get the credit it's due.

[bunt_q]

By the way, Cairo probably ranks #2 on my "holy shit this is insane" cities list. (#1 is reserved for Indian cities, which merit a category all their own.)

I would highly highly recommend Istanbul. That's my recommended "Intro to the Middle East" course for anybody who hasn't been there. (Israel works too, but it's easy to get a sudden shock there if it's not done just right). And you absolutely must do Istanbul before Dubai. Dubai is an interesting small city, that happens to have a theme park row of supertalls (sort of like 'Epcot does the Middle East' I suppose.). The 'realest' part of Dubai will be your interactions with the Pakastani and Bangladeshi laborers and their hangouts. That's true for a lot of Gulf cities actually. Istanbul, on the other hand, is supremely interesting and also very real. And shockingly friendly (and I imagine, a good destination for gay men, although I haven't looked.)

[Eeyore]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Cairo is perfectly fine to go to. Although, if that's your reaction to Cuzco, I'm not sure you're ready for Cairo. Let me know before you go and I'll give the Embassy a heads up that you're coming.

Jerusalem too. Nothing security-wise there that should really concern the average tourist. You're more likely to die in Pueblo.

I'll go with to Dubai too, just let me know when the uber-forum-meet is going to be. Old Dubai doesn't get the credit it's due.

LOL I am sure.

A "urber-forum-meet" in Dubai would be a blast.

[Eeyore]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

By the way, Cairo probably ranks #2 on my "holy shit this is insane" cities list. (#1 is reserved for Indian cities, which merit a category all their own.)

I would highly highly recommend Istanbul. That's my recommended "Intro to the Middle East" course for anybody who hasn't been there. (Israel works too, but it's easy to get a sudden shock there if it's not done just right). And you absolutely must do Istanbul before Dubai. Dubai is an interesting small city, that happens to have a theme park row of supertalls (sort of like 'Epcot does the Middle East' I suppose.). The 'realest' part of Dubai will be your interactions with the Pakastani and Bangladeshi laborers and their hangouts. That's true for a lot of Gulf cities actually. Istanbul, on the other hand, is supremely interesting and also very real. And shockingly friendly (and I imagine, a good destination for gay men, although I haven't looked.)

I want to travel to India but I was thinking Bombay. Shanghai would be another place. The Philippians. I just want to travel as see as many places as I can but I usually only visit the large metro areas which is funny since I live in Pueblo and talk about how great this city is.

The biggest dream I have is to do go to space on Virgin Galactic.

• Video Link

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

By the way, Cairo probably ranks #2 on my "holy shit this is insane" cities list. (#1 is reserved for Indian cities, which merit a category all their own.)

I would highly highly recommend Istanbul. That's my recommended "Intro to the Middle East" course for anybody who hasn't been there. (Israel works too, but it's easy to get a sudden shock there if it's not done just right). And you absolutely must do Istanbul before Dubai. Dubai is an interesting small city, that happens to have a theme park row of supertalls (sort of like 'Epcot does the Middle East' I suppose.). The 'realest' part of Dubai will be your interactions with the Pakastani and Bangladeshi laborers and their hangouts. That's true for a lot of Gulf cities actually. Istanbul, on the other hand, is supremely interesting and also very real. And shockingly friendly (and I imagine, a good destination for gay men, although I haven't looked.)

Uhhh... Istanbul isn't in the Middle East.

[bunt_q]

I didn't say it was. But Istanbul, its markets, its history, and a lot of its culture (the parts imported from Anatolia especially) contain great similarities. Probably because most of the Middle East was ruled from Istanbul for, oh, 500+ years. Ottoman influences are everywhere. Like I said, it's a good intro to "the east."

And the Asian side of the city could easily be considered the Middle East. If not, then what region is it? "Central Asia"? Eastern Europe? I suppose Anatolia could have its own region. Where do migrants from eastern Anatolia fall, Turks or Kurds...? Caucasus? Where does the Middle East start? Eastern Turkey is arguably indistinguishable from Iraqi Kurdistan.

[Brainpathology]

Originally Posted by Stenar

Uhhh... Istanbul isn't in the Middle East.

Really? I thought Turkey was definitely part of the Middle East.

[bunt_q]

Both Departments of State and Defense include it in Europe, but that's a recognition of its political status, member of NATO, and commitment to western values since the Ataturk days. But the reality on the ground, especially outside of Istanbul, Aegean coast, and maybe Ankara, is quite middle eastern (if there is such a thing - The gulf states and north Africa aren't all that similar either.)

Where in North Africa does the "Middle East" stop, I wonder? Egypt probably yes. Libya?

[Brainpathology]

Ah ok.. it's not like I've taken geography recently. Wikipedia (my g_d have mercy on my soul for citing it) references the state and defense department definitions which exclude it and the "traditional" definition which includes the entire country of Turkey. Egypt is included there too with Lybia excluded like you said.

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I didn't say it was. But Istanbul, its markets, its history, and a lot of its culture (the parts imported from Anatolia especially) contain great similarities. Probably because most of the Middle East was ruled from Istanbul for, oh, 500+ years. Ottoman influences are everywhere. Like I said, it's a good intro to "the east."

And the Asian side of the city could easily be considered the Middle East. If not, then what region is it? "Central Asia"? Eastern Europe? I suppose Anatolia could have its own region. Where do migrants from eastern Anatolia fall, Turks or Kurds...? Caucasus? Where does the Middle East start? Eastern Turkey is arguably indistinguishable from Iraqi Kurdistan.

Again I don't think anyone is actually disagreeing on anything here. But I would like to point out that just because the Ottomans ruled from Istanbul over the entire Middle East does not mean the culture was unified. The Turks don't/ didn't even speak Arabic.

I would love to go to Istanbul (I might go this summer while I stay in Jerusalem). My friend Enes from Istanbul has told me a lot about his country and the unique dynmaic that exists there because of the meld of Constantinople Christianity and Islam (you can go there and see old Christian proto Roman Catholic / Orthodox baptismal fonts where a person was dipped fully under the water). It's totally different than anything in Arab culture. Enes was always emphatic that Turkey stands on its own. It is not to be included with Europe nor the Middle East (culturally).

[bunt_q]

I would agree with that. Although there isn't a whole lot of early Christian influence left, at least outside of Istanbul (and ruins in Capadoccia). There's probably more visible Christian influence in Cairo.

No, the Turks never spoke Arabic, although their holy book is and always was written in Arabic. "Modern Standard Arabic" (at least before Al Jazeera and widespread Egypt-base satellite TV) was Quran-based, so in that sense, Ottoman Turks spoke Arabic just as much as a Gulf Arab would think Moroccans speak Arabic (the dialects are virtually unintelligible.)

Ottoman influence in the Arab world is subtle I'd say. I've looked long and hard for books on the subject, ever since I was sent to coordinate an Iraqi "Qada" (translates roughly to 'district' ...from the Turkish word Kazaa. An Arab world 'public works' department is a Belediye, from the Turkish word Beledyesi, or municipality.) Best book I found was 'Osman's Dream' by Finkel.

There was not a lot of cultural convergence, that's true (probably why the Ottoman Empire lasted as log as it did.). But I'm not sure you need cultural similarities to define the "Middle East" region. Tribalism in Libya (not Middle Eastern) looks much more like Arabian tribalism, but it's virtually non-existent in Egypt.

Turkey is rightfully proud of its role as bridge between the Middle Eastern and European (Western) worlds... But you don't get there without having a lot in common with both. I assume your friend is from the liberal secular mold, like many western-minded folks in Istanbul are. For better or worse, their influence is shrinking...Turkey is growing more comfortable with its eastern traditions too. Look at the political shifts of the last decade or so. It's an interesting time, that's for sure.

[Strange Meat]

Originally Posted by Eeyore

I have never been in the military.

I'd love to see how you'd do in SERE school.

[Eeyore]

Originally Posted by Strange Meat

I'd love to see how you'd do in SERE school.

I had to look it up.

I will be honest I am sure I could not do it. I think staying in a hotel with out room service is roughing it.......

[Strange Meat]

Originally Posted by Brainpathology

Well shame on you for having fun at the expense of underpaid exploited gay Brazilian college students...

I don't get it.

[Strange Meat]

Originally Posted by Eeyore

I have been out of the country many times. In fact I have been to every continent on earth except the Antarctica. Given the lack of travel most Americans do I am most likely in the top 1% of people in the country who have traveled the most and this summer I am going to Barcelona again. Is Epcot perfect, no, but they do a great job of showing all the cultures in one area and as you posted they try to make it educational. I love the restaurants there and I have been to most of them but my favorite ones are the French and Italian one and I love the restaurant in the castle at the Magic Kingdom. To be honest when I go to Disney World I base my trip itinerary on what days I can get into the best restaurants there as a trip to Disney and not going to them would be not fun for me.

Interestingly, I've been to every continent except for South America and Antarctica (and I missed out on that because I got dropped from that mission due to fucking illness...), and I think that Florida, in general, is kind of a shithole.

Epcot showing cultures well? Are you kidding?

And Florida - so progressive that it's always German season there.

[Eeyore]

Originally Posted by Strange Meat

Interestingly, I've been to every continent except for South America and Antarctica (and I missed out on that because I got dropped from that mission due to fucking illness...), and I think that Florida, in general, is kind of a shithole.

Epcot showing cultures well? Are you kidding?

And Florida - so progressive that it's always German season there.

Epcot theme park, one of 4 Theme Parks at Walt Disney World Resort, sprawls across 300 acres—twice the size of Magic Kingdom theme park—and is divided into Future World and World Showcase.

Future World

Future World is full of sensational attractions—including one of the fastest attractions in all Disney Parks—as well as inspiring entertainment and shows, all of which focus on technological advancements, innovation and wonder. In Future World, ideas become reality.

The Epcot theme park icon, Spaceship Earth, looking like a giant golf ball rising high above the horizon, welcomes you as you walk through the Park's main entrance.

World Showcase

Beyond Future World, if entering from the main gate at Epcot theme park, is the World Showcase area. World Showcase is a collective of Pavilions that wrap around the World Showcase Lagoon. Inside the Pavilions, find shops, attractions and restaurants that represent the culture and cuisine of these 11 countries:

* Mexico
* Norway
* China
* Germany
* Italy
* United States
* Japan
* Morocco
* France
* United Kingdom
* Canada

While walking between Pavilions, be amused by live performers—some may even invite you to participate in the show! There's also plenty of kid-centric entertainment, too, like Disney Character meet and greet locations and Kidcot fun stops. At Kidcot stations, kids can create one-of-a-kind souvenirs.

In Epcot theme park, creativity is encouraged, imagination is celebrated and countries are united. Be amazed, inspired, enlightened and entertained!

The link: http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/parks/epcot/

As for Florida I would agree that most of the state is backwards but Orlando is the exception. I think even more then Miami.

[Strange Meat]

Really, I didn't realize that all those nations could have their culture summed up in one little stop.

[Eeyore]

Originally Posted by Strange Meat

Really, I didn't realize that all those nations could have their culture summed up in one little stop.

Its not perfect but its a nice preview of the culture. For the real thing its best to go.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by Eeyore

As for Florida I would agree that most of the state is backwards but Orlando is the exception. I think even more then Miami.

I don't get this. Miami is one of the most interesting cities in the country. It's not even in the same league as Orlando, and you've got to be the only person in the world (including Florida) who would say otherwise. What are your criteria again?