How can we help give the displaced Mac students a better intro to downtown?

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

to start with, let's hook them up with HMag, RTH, Arts Hamilton, Pearl Company etc.... not some writer from the Spec... Geez, this article is so bush league. As if they are all huddled in the front lobby peering through the windows, scared to go out. It's a quote from an individual that the Spec LOVES. What else is new?

Guess they used up all of their rah-rah on last week's Celebrate Hamilton supplements. Hopefully the students didn't catch wind of those.

[geoff's two cents]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

Students would love Pepperjacks, London Tap House, Augustra/John area, Hess, Locke South, Staircase Cafe-Theatre (reopening tomorrow as Tapestry Bistro), James North galleries, JS theatres, farmers market, library etc......

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

Heck, if they want to drink, they can step into the Honest Lawyer instead of the hotel lobby. Geez, this article is so bush league. As if they are all huddled in the front lobby peeering through the windows, scared to go out. It's a quote from an individual that the Spec LOVES. What else is new?

Thankfully, during my time in the city I wasn't the only student out there enjoying what the city had to offer. In particular, there seemed to be a number of students out and about in the Augusta/Corktown neighborhood, which was nice to see.

Of course, there isn't nearly enough student activity downtown, which is a tad surprising given the variety of cultural and culinary amenities on offer, and the relative lack thereof on the other side of the freeway.

During my stay in Hamilton, I did my best to propagandize on behalf of my favorite things about downtown, and formed with some other post-grads quite a committed cadre of city centre enthusiasts. Yet, the feeling that downtown is scary, dirty, etc. has proven incredibly persistent. While there are certainly differences between Toronto and Hamilton, I've found the greater part of this fear mongering to be based predominantly (though not exclusively) in myth and misinformation. It's a shame to see the city's newspaper playing a role in this.

If I were still a Hamiltonian though, I would be thrilled to be part of any organization promoting the downtown to Mac students. Sure, there's the art crawl - I wonder what else we could come up with?

[sofasurfer]

I went to uni in Manchester, England and lived in the heart of Salford (right next to Mcr but an even rougher city), had no problems personally but really didn't act like an archetypal student (but that's another story).

But aren't (most of?) these kids first year students? Regardless of which country we're talking about, we're talking kids here. First time away from home and able to drink legally... without wanting to over-generalize, it's not too unrealistic to say many are pretty immature and lack life experience. So it's not hard to see why they might not venture out much of their comfort zone (not saying it's 'right' - merely saying it's not surprising).

Geoff - sounds like you were a postgrad? In my experience (admittedly UK/Europe), PGs tend to just get out and get on with life a lot more in the community they're in.

Regardless, I completely agree that the BIA and local eateries are missing a golden opportunity. They may not have had much time to act, but surely doing the math re. the allowances the uni's giving these kids can show there's a significant potential immediate return to be had, let alone long-term gains by nurturing the student market (and potentially increasing student $$)

Opening up the pre-pay meal card thing can only be a good idea. Encourages students to spend more but carry less cash. Not sure what the business model is with the card readers, though? Or who runs it? That might be a barrier.

I have no idea what happens in Canada re. student unions, gig/club promoters, etc. but if I was still involved with putting on club nights I'd be viewing this as a golden opportunity. I suspect things are different here, though...

[adam]

Its true. I know that there are a lot of students living in the Durand neighbourhood - close to downtown but not gritty at all - in apartments and basements but they are mostly upper year or grad students.

[emge]

I was talking with one student on the bus today who lives east of downtown and has commuted through it since the beginning of the semester.

She related stories of driving around with her family for half an hour downtown, not knowing where a good place to eat would be, not knowing where to start.

What struck me was her desire to know the downtown, wanting to find great places and having an open mind, but not knowing where to begin at all. We both agreed there were a lot of great places in Hamilton, but they were hidden, and hard to find off the bat. That's what has to change.

She had never been to Locke Street (didn't know about it at all!) or Hess Village (had gone by, never had the time to visit. We talked about a few cafes, restaurants, and more, giving some possibilities.

She had even walked around downtown many times and felt intimidated because it was so different than her hometown (which I had been in several times, and personally I feel less safe in!) We talked about some of the statistics for both cities, and all the cities I'd lived in... and she was surprised to hear a lot of the numbers.

It just reinforces for me that usually people just need is an introduction - a pointer in the right direction. Recognizable chains may not be the most exciting thing nor give true character to a downtown, but the aspect of familiarity can prove helpful. If things aren't made easy, very few will have the time or knowhow to figure it out for themselves, but if there's a push given and information made available, it's a lot easier for people to start somewhere.

[highwater]

The Sil usually does a pretty good job of listing restos, retail, and entertainment as an intro to Hamilton at the beginning of every school year. I didn't see this year's edition, so I'm not sure how thorough it was this time. There's also View, and I'm pretty sure you can pick up Hmag on campus, and certainly at several locations around Westdale. It's really not that hard to find what you're looking for if you have a little bit of curiosity and initiative, so I guess the question is how do you get them interested?

[raisethehammer]

not to mention, most students have access to this neat little thing called the internet.

[flar]

I think a lot of suburban people (which includes a lot of kids at mac) are overwhelmed by cities. Many of them are probalby familiar with Toronto from going to specific places there, but any other (strange) city overwhelms them. I once brought someone to Ottawa St. for some material, but she ended up getting it at a big box Fabricland in London even though there is a Fabricland on Ottawa St. The big box was more familiar to her, Ottawa St. had too many choices.

[emge]

Its easy to say "anyone who really wants to can find out all about what's going on in the downtown" Sure, they can.... but only to a point.

And that's all good and fine if one only wants those who have a ton of initiative and already love cities to enjoy downtown. And that kind of person will do it without rapid transit coming to Hamilton, they'll do it without parking, they'll do it no matter if they find Gore Park unfamiliar, they'll do it without promotion. I'd put myself in that category, to be honest - except I lack a lot of the spending money most do. And there really aren't very many comprehensive Hamilton sites that tell you what's available in the city or what good places to ___________ are. (Remember I posted a thread when I moved here, asking about jazz? The rest of the Internet... didn't give me much at all about jazz music in Hamilton, especially not reviews or personal opinion. That shouldn't be friggin' complicated to figure out).

But if one wants the vast majority of people (specifically speaking, these Mac students who have a ton of disposable income and are in close proximity to downtown) to get out there and enjoy it, they'll need a lil' bit o' spoonfeedin' and for things to be brought to them before they're ready to face the big ol' city.

I'd rather find practical ways to do that instead of talking about how people should be acting if they really cared about finding out about downtown... because most of them don't, but they could and would check out places if they had an introduction.

So what could be done, and who could do it? And who is already in a good spot to do it that could be contacted about it? Too bad the View's places to eat issue already came out a while ago - that would have been a great one for the students downtown. I love the pub crawl/walking tour idea too -- what place would take that initiative and would be a good one to start with?

[BrianE]

This attitude is common even outside of the Student population. Take my wife (Please!) for example, she's very afraid of going to new and different restaurants because there's a chance she might have a bad experience. Poor food, bad service, whatever. This inevitably leads us to chose one of the default restaurant locations when we go out for dinner because it's safe, we know what we're going to get.

I don't know what the solution to this problem is, how do you get people to leave their comfort zones of Boston Pizza and East Side Marios and take a chance on Lo Presti's or Zum Linzer.

[highwater]

Originally Posted by emge

Its easy to say "anyone who really wants to can find out all about what's going on in the downtown" Sure, they can.... but only to a point.

And that's all good and fine if one only wants those who have a ton of initiative and already love cities to enjoy downtown.

But that was my point. You don't need a ton of initiative, only a little. Andy, the Sil's entertainment section, does a pretty good job of highlighting local entertainment and encouraging exploration, so they don't even have to set foot off campus, or surf the net for that matter, to find a 'guide' to the city, if they want one.

Originally Posted by emge

But if one wants the vast majority of people (specifically speaking, these Mac students who have a ton of disposable income and are in close proximity to downtown) to get out there and enjoy it, they'll need a lil' bit o' spoonfeedin' and for things to be brought to them before they're ready to face the big ol' city.

I'd rather find practical ways to do that instead of talking about how people should be acting if they really cared about finding out about downtown... because most of them don't, but they could and would check out places if they had an introduction.

That's a rather damning assessment of the maturity level of this group of educated young adults. All the spoonfeeding on the part of their parents is what made them passive and fearful in the first place, I don't think more spoonfeeding is likely to turn incurious people into curious ones.

Originally Posted by emge

So what could be done, and who could do it?

I'm not hopeful, in case you hadn't noticed, but if my brief foray into the world of marketing taught me anything, casting too wide a net is a waste of time and resources. You need to target those students who are more likely to be willing to step outside their comfort zones, such as Humanities students, those involved in student organizations and extra-curricular activites, etc. I've had the pleasure of meeting a number of active, engaged, curious students. They are out there. Best to be scattering your seeds on fertile ground.

[sofasurfer]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

not to mention, most students have access to this neat little thing called the internet.

Oh, come on... I'm sorry, but from the other posts I've read of yours in the time I've been on SSP, this is pretty lame. Ever heard of Information overload, btw? It's why portals/social networking/interweb meme du jour work (ok, gratuitous editorializing there, but I hope you get my point)

This isn't the 1990s any more. And if I had a buck for every time I'd wanted to chib someone for saying 'oh, but it's on the internet/intranet/etc, you can find it there' I'd own half of Ancaster by now

Stress-induced rantette aside, let me try and be a bit more constructive

There's a real lack of 'easy ins' for newcomers to discover more about the joys of Hamilton quickly and easily - downtown in particular. I was lucky, I married a local You can call it spoonfeeding if you like (I don't, so wouldn't ) but I think it's more a case of making it easier for people to find starting points to explore on their own.

While we're at it, ad listings and advertorial copy in the student press isn't the same as an unbiased guide for newcomers (to be fair, this may happen in a freshers' edition that I've not seen - but I've seen most copies of the Sil since late September and I wouldn't call that a good starting point for students new to Hamilton.

[ryan_mcgreal]

Originally Posted by sofasurfer

Ever heard of Information overload

tl;dr.

[emge]

highwater, i didn't mean to imply that these young adults were lacking simply because of their age or maturity level. sure, they're not the dimmest icons on the taskbar. but the same problems that keep adults out of the downtown hamper them: lack of knowledge and lack of initiative. Sure, some have initiative. Most don't. And that's where the need for "easy ins" (as was mentioned) comes in. Plus these kids live here for the next two months, so there's an opportunity we don't have with other citizens who live further away.

While some certainly do, reading print papers is a bit of a thing of the past, especially daily/weekly editions. I think things like the View are a bit more applicable. I think I picked up one student paper during my time at Mac last year (grad school), and I didn't read the newspaper then either.. I do now, but didn't then.

Anyways, let's assume these things are working. Let's assume there are a bunch of engaged students and ones who already read the available resources. The original point of the thread was more along the lines of "what more can be done to engage those who aren't already engaged?"

They have spending money, they're bright, they're going for the jobs of the future.... why not try to captivate them while they're here instead of just sending them on shopping trips to Oakville and to Kelsey's for wings?

[highwater]

Originally Posted by sofasurfer

While we're at it, ad listings and advertorial copy in the student press isn't the same as an unbiased guide for newcomers

This doesn't describe what I've seen in the Sil. I've seen articles on the local music scene for instance, written by students for students, listing bands and venues, describing them and rating them in a way that makes the scene very accessible. I've also seen similar articles on retail and restaurants covering the whole city. I've found their guides so handy sometimes, that I keep them around myself, in spite of the fact that I've been living here 10 years.

The Westdale neighbourhood association has been working hard over the years to build bridges between the students and the local community. Perhaps the downtown BIA needs to do similar outreach. It takes a long time to change ingrained attitudes and preferences. There are no quick fixes.

[highwater]

Hi emge,

I didn't see your post before I posted. I guess I'm dating myself with print references. But if print is out because undergrads don't look at it, and the internet is out because of information overload, what are we left with? Human interaction? Oh brave new world!

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by flar

I think a lot of suburban people (which includes a lot of kids at mac) are overwhelmed by cities. Many of them are probalby familiar with Toronto from going to specific places there, but any other (strange) city overwhelms them. I once brought someone to Ottawa St. for some material, but she ended up getting it at a big box Fabricland in London even though there is a Fabricland on Ottawa St. The big box was more familiar to her, Ottawa St. had too many choices.

too many choices, too many trees, too many pedestrians and not enough huge empty parking lots.

[sofasurfer]

Originally Posted by highwater

This doesn't describe what I've seen in the Sil.

Fair enough - and I'm working from a distinctly smaller sample size than you (although surely the freshers are, too?)

Wearing a hat from a former life, I suspect any kind of strategy that's actually gonna have some hope at a good impact needs to embrace print, online, and physical presence (be it flyers distributed at key points - info packs in the hotel rooms of newly-displaced students, anyone? huge missed opportunity there -or perhaps walking tours of some sort... these could align with special interest groups/societies at the uni and around the city itself).

BTW, RTH - apologies if my earlier post sounded on the sharp side. Posting while stressed at work isn't always the best thing to do (still stressed, but coping with it better now )