ATLANTA | Development Thread VI

[Hokiehaven]

Originally Posted by scania

I'm not sure if you've visited New York, Chicago, San Fran, DTLA, but the foot traffic in Midtown Atlanta is almost non existent after 7ish in comparison to these other cities. Keep in mind, we're talking about at night. Some of these things you mentioned as far as nightlife options, you missed the point. NO ONE walks from Spire, Plaza Midtown, etc. to the Symphony (Symphony doesn't promote any foot traffic). IMHO, in 2008 - 2010, I saw more people walking around at night. Maybe there were more pan-handlers and prostitutes. But trust me, this is something that other residents have noticed who live in the area. Things that you mentioned are more destination places and or simply a daytime affair...i.e. the museums.

I think it's unfair to compare all of those well-developed cities to Midtown, all of them including LA have had nearly a century of growth compared to the 2 decades or so Midtown has truly had. What remains of Midtown before is few and far between.

I think foot traffic is up particularly at night. Is it bustling like those other cities, definitely not, but I think a lot of that has to do with the major gaps for parking lots, etc. that still exist and the lack of people who live in the city and Midtown directly.

With the increasing rise of apartments in the coming years, we'll see more people out more times of the day and hopefully more entertainment options.

I'm personally hopeful Colony Square will be a big push to get people out and about more.

I think there are other factors that aren't played well, Midtown specifically has a lot of venues, but doesn't have things showing at all times or even most days.

A perfect example is the Puppetry Arts Center which has two theatres, but usually only puts on one show a day, during the day for kids. I saw a great show at Halloween for adults, but that's about the only adult show they do all year.

Another is the theatre at Paris on Ponce, which is largely a rental event space or Center Stage, which has 3 theatres and is lucky to have one or two events going on.

Unlike some other cities that have a clearly vibrant, theatre scene, Midtown's is quite hidden and seemingly unused. At least part of getting people out, is giving them something to go to aside from bars and restaurants.

[DWNTWN]

Originally Posted by Hokiehaven

There's talk of that in Colony Square, I think a theatre would do very well.

With the influx of the film industry, I wonder if a Second City/UCB would do well. There are other sketch places in the city, but perhaps one in the Midtown area could do well.

Whole World Improv is in Midtown:

http://wholeworldtheatre.com/

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by joecool

After spending the entire day with your family, we gays are all at the bars drinking, trust!

Oh okay I like getting together with my family on holidays. I guess I'm just weird.

I don't see how anyone can argue that Midtown isn't busier than it was 5-10 years ago. It seems like people are discussing two different things...compared to the busiest pedestrian areas in certain cities it's not all that busy, but compared to the same area in the past it's much busier. You should seen it 20 years ago - it was a ghost town.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

Yeah, here's a video from 1986 of Midtown's lack of street life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POhRBsLDE0k

[testarossa50]

Originally Posted by scania

I'm not sure if you've visited New York, Chicago, San Fran, DTLA, but the foot traffic in Midtown Atlanta is almost non existent after 7ish in comparison to these other cities. Keep in mind, we're talking about at night. Some of these things you mentioned as far as nightlife options, you missed the point. NO ONE walks from Spire, Plaza Midtown, etc. to the Symphony (Symphony doesn't promote any foot traffic). IMHO, in 2008 - 2010, I saw more people walking around at night. Maybe there were more pan-handlers and prostitutes. But trust me, this is something that other residents have noticed who live in the area. Things that you mentioned are more destination places and or simply a daytime affair...i.e. the museums.

I moved here in 2008 and my impression is the exact opposite. Peachtree between 7th and 10th even used to be dead after 7PM. Now it's quite bustling. I used to run down Peachtree Street at night; it was a blank canvas back then and running was easy. Now it's annoyingly crowded.

[scania]

Originally Posted by Hokiehaven

I think it's unfair to compare all of those well-developed cities to Midtown, all of them including LA have had nearly a century of growth compared to the 2 decades or so Midtown has truly had. What remains of Midtown before is few and far between.

I think foot traffic is up particularly at night. Is it bustling like those other cities, definitely not, but I think a lot of that has to do with the major gaps for parking lots, etc. that still exist and the lack of people who live in the city and Midtown directly.

With the increasing rise of apartments in the coming years, we'll see more people out more times of the day and hopefully more entertainment options.

I'm personally hopeful Colony Square will be a big push to get people out and about more.

I think there are other factors that aren't played well, Midtown specifically has a lot of venues, but doesn't have things showing at all times or even most days.

A perfect example is the Puppetry Arts Center which has two theatres, but usually only puts on one show a day, during the day for kids. I saw a great show at Halloween for adults, but that's about the only adult show they do all year.

Another is the theatre at Paris on Ponce, which is largely a rental event space or Center Stage, which has 3 theatres and is lucky to have one or two events going on.

Unlike some other cities that have a clearly vibrant, theatre scene, Midtown's is quite hidden and seemingly unused. At least part of getting people out, is giving them something to go to aside from bars and restaurants.

I think you make a lot of GREAT points!!! Which lends itself to planning and development. Now, I've only lived in NY, Atlanta, and LA. Atlanta and LA are very similar in a few aspects. LA hasn't been around since the likes of NY, Chicago, San Fran, etc. I've said this before that if DTLA can do what its presently doing, Atlanta can do the same thing. Midtown wasn't a ghost town 20 years ago as some people think...a ghost town was LA. I really wasn't planning for this to be discussed on this level. But I do think your points are spot on.

[scania]

Originally Posted by shivtim

I have personally walked from Plaza Midtown to the Symphony at night. Just saying.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I've seen pedestrian activity in Midtown steadily increasing over the last decade, including at night.

Yeah we'll have to agree to disagree...Hey it's whatever makes people sleep better at night.

[RATBOYKEV]

Just to chime in - Ive been regularly walking the dog on Peachtree (14th to Ponce is a 2 mile roundtrip!) 2-3 days/week starting in 2008 and the foot traffic is way up over the past 8 years. 6th to 10th is the busiest stretch by far.

[1lifealex]

I will have to agree with the majority here Midtown definitely has more pedestrian traffic than in years past. Midtown was dead on Thanksgiving as the person who started this conversation said but I think that's to be expected it's Thanksgiving, had he seen Midtown on a more regular day maybe this conversation would have never started.

[sunking1056]

Scania back and doing his thing.

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by sunking1056

Scania back and doing his thing.

Well I mean the proof is in the pudding. The people who actually live here have experienced a steady increase in pedestrian activity over the last five years. Scania doesn't live here so he may have only gotten a snapshot on one night and made a comparison that way.

[Labtec]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

Well I mean the proof is in the pudding. The people who actually live here have experienced a steady increase in pedestrian activity over the last five years. Scania doesn't live here so he may have only gotten a snapshot on one night and made a comparison that way.

His opinion matters above all, it helps him sleep better at night.

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

The parking lot next to bulldogs has also been fenced off now. It looks like it may just be temporary though.

Also I live in midtown and I agree that there has been steadily more and more foot traffic especiallly spring street and Peachtree place and from metropolis to viewpoint, but I stick around 10th to 5th so I don't know about other parts of midtown

[briantech]

Originally Posted by scania

I'm not sure if you've visited New York, Chicago, San Fran, DTLA, but the foot traffic in Midtown Atlanta is almost non existent after 7ish in comparison to these other cities. Keep in mind, we're talking about at night. Some of these things you mentioned as far as nightlife options, you missed the point. NO ONE walks from Spire, Plaza Midtown, etc. to the Symphony (Symphony doesn't promote any foot traffic). IMHO, in 2008 - 2010, I saw more people walking around at night. Maybe there were more pan-handlers and prostitutes. But trust me, this is something that other residents have noticed who live in the area. Things that you mentioned are more destination places and or simply a daytime affair...i.e. the museums.

I live in plaza midtown.

Wife and I walked to the High just last Friday to listen to jazz.

:p

[scania]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

Well I mean the proof is in the pudding. The people who actually live here have experienced a steady increase in pedestrian activity over the last five years. Scania doesn't live here so he may have only gotten a snapshot on one night and made a comparison that way.

No I was there for 35 days straight this time around.

[scania]

Originally Posted by briantech

I live in plaza midtown.

Wife and I walked to the High just last Friday to listen to jazz.

:p

Same here...let's not be synical. People walking up there is not by any means a normal occurrence. I don't understand people not living in reality. I recall a couple of years ago, people on here tried to tell me that people ride their bikes to Happy Hour, Two Urban Licks, and South City Kitchen. Smh.

[RocketSurgeon]

Originally Posted by scania

IMHO, in 2008 - 2010, I saw more people walking around at night. Maybe there were more pan-handlers and prostitutes. But trust me, this is something that other residents have noticed who live in the area.

Resident here. You're mistaken. Recent development has increased pedestrian activity a lot; it's inevitable when the population is growing by the thousands. With all the projects underway it will really pick up in another year or two. It's 11:00 PM and I just saw a few dozen walk by my window as I typed this--it would have been a ghost town a few years ago. Of course it varies from block to block and season to season. You'd probably have a different impression if you lived here rather than visiting now and again.

[sbrptree]

Originally Posted by scania

I think you make a lot of GREAT points!!! Which lends itself to planning and development. Now, I've only lived in NY, Atlanta, and LA. Atlanta and LA are very similar in a few aspects. LA hasn't been around since the likes of NY, Chicago, San Fran, etc. I've said this before that if DTLA can do what its presently doing, Atlanta can do the same thing. Midtown wasn't a ghost town 20 years ago as some people think...a ghost town was LA. I really wasn't planning for this to be discussed on this level. But I do think your points are spot on.

Yes all good points. I have to disagree about midtown 20+ years ago and even worse 30 years ago. Think of the Biltmore abandoned with half the windows broken out. Besides the residential east of Juniper, there was a few large residential developments. Large stretches of Peachtree Street south of 14th and north of Ponce, including all of Cyprus and a good bit of Juniper were home to more hookers and drug dealers than anything. Slowly developments like Mayfair came on line, then the development of Peachtree lofts post Olympics and ultimately metropolis really started the ball rolling.

Bottom line things are so much better today from a residential standpoint in Midtown you can't even compare. Retail is also better but obviously not perfect. Keep in mind that not every sub area of every city has a perfect mix of uses. I have friends in the Upper Westside of Manhattan who gripe they don't have enough grocery stores close by ( within a few blocks). The market (demand) ultimately determines the mix of sustainable retail. Don't also lose sight that we are living in a time of increasing e-commerce where many people (like me) do very little shopping in person. I disagree with whoever stated that Ponce city market is pulling retail from Midtown. Ponce city market is more of an attraction with boutique shops versus a true shopping center in my IMHO.

[Vaden]

Originally Posted by scania

I think you make a lot of GREAT points!!! Which lends itself to planning and development. Now, I've only lived in NY, Atlanta, and LA. Atlanta and LA are very similar in a few aspects. LA hasn't been around since the likes of NY, Chicago, San Fran, etc. I've said this before that if DTLA can do what its presently doing, Atlanta can do the same thing. Midtown wasn't a ghost town 20 years ago as some people think...a ghost town was LA. I really wasn't planning for this to be discussed on this level. But I do think your points are spot on.

Not accurate. Los Angeles is only 6 years younger than SF. SF founded in 1776, and LA founded in 1781. Both were incorporated in 1850. Chicago was settled around the 1780's but wasn't big enough to be incorporated until 1833. NY is the only one significantly older-being founded in the 1600's.

Atlanta is way younger than any of those. Atlanta is young even by American standards-1837 as a railroad stake, 1843 as Marthasville, and 1847 as city of Atlanta.

[atlwarrior]

Originally Posted by 1lifealex

I will have to agree with the majority here Midtown definitely has more pedestrian traffic than in years past. Midtown was dead on Thanksgiving as the person who started this conversation said but I think that's to be expected it's Thanksgiving, had he seen Midtown on a more regular day maybe this conversation would have never started.

Thanksgiving was not dead as a Uber driver it was surging all over place. Yes mainly shoppers but Thanksgiving is no longer the stay at home day like in the past. I would just like more entertainment diversity in Midtown and not just more people out.