Another Andrew Cohen article slamming Ottawa

[J.OT13]

I think Cohen was referring to the Nature Museums lawn turned parking lot.

As for the NAC, the Feds need to hand over a few million for a new glass entrance on Elgin, giving the building a much needed modern touch, opening it up to our to our grand boulevard. Also, I think a pedestrian tunnel to the Convention Centre would allow for new promotional opportunities as a centre of tourism as well as an indoor connection to the subway. If they don't want to spend a billion on an awesome Science and Tech museum, 50-100 million to the NAC would be an satisfactory sesquicentennial gift.

[kevinbottawa]

Russell Mills didn't do a great job of refuting Andrew Cohen's points probably because he can't.

Here's an interesting comment though:

We also want to build a national capital on both sides of the Ottawa River that all Canadians will want to visit.

I guess to the NCC the nation's capital is Ottawa-Gatineau and not just Ottawa.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Kingston was able to resist anti-urban plans better than many other Ontario cities of the period. Examples:
-Efforts to demolish large blocks of urban neighbourhood in the core to build a suburban-style shopping mall were stopped dead in their tracks.
-Road widening projects that would have benefited the suburbs never went forward.
-The old city was hostile to power centre-type development, refusing to allow the Kingston Centre mall to turn itself into a power centre despite its repeated attempts to do so (this did happen after amalgamation, though).

One of the main end results of this is that Kingston's old pre-war working class neighbourhoods were retained almost intact, as opposed to most other places where they were demolished and redeveloped. This has allowed Kingston to flourish in the 21st century as a tourism destination ("come see our old brick houses & shops!").

Not sure that I entirely agree with this rationale. I would think that one of the biggest reasons that Kingston neighbourhoods are more intact and new development was limited is because Kingston didn't experience nearly the rate of growth (both economic and population) that other cities in Ontario, and particularly those in central and southwestern Ontario, did from the 70s to present.

[S-Man]

Not sure that I entirely agree with this rationale. I would think that one of the biggest reasons that Kingston neighbourhoods are more intact and new development was limited is because Kingston didn't experience nearly the rate of growth (both economic and population) that other cities in Ontario, and particularly those in central and southwestern Ontario, did from the 70s to present.

I've made this point before. It isn't too hard to keep things the same when the population and economy is stagnant.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by phil235

Not sure that I entirely agree with this rationale. I would think that one of the biggest reasons that Kingston neighbourhoods are more intact and new development was limited is because Kingston didn't experience nearly the rate of growth (both economic and population) that other cities in Ontario, and particularly those in central and southwestern Ontario, did from the 70s to present.

That is definitely true, but I think the municipal governance is a factor. The Sydenham Town Centre project that would have razed two blocks of downtown Princess St, which was blocked by the city, would have definitely proceeded had the city not had total control over its zoning. Even without interfering suburbanites, Kingston barely won the OMB appeal launched by the would-be mall builders. The proposed Frontenac Parkway, a project that would have demolished over one hundred old houses along King St in the core, would also have likely succeeded if Kingston had been governed by a region--it too came very close to happening.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

That is definitely true, but I think the municipal governance is a factor. The Sydenham Town Centre project that would have razed two blocks of downtown Princess St, which was blocked by the city, would have definitely proceeded had the city not had total control over its zoning. Even without interfering suburbanites, Kingston barely won the OMB appeal launched by the would-be mall builders. The proposed Frontenac Parkway, a project that would have demolished over one hundred old houses along King St in the core, would also have likely succeeded if Kingston had been governed by a region--it too came very close to happening.

No doubt that the political dynamics are very different when the hinterland is included. Kingston at least has a substantial downtown population to counterbalance the outlying regions.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

I guess to the NCC the nation's capital is Ottawa-Gatineau and not just Ottawa.

I am pretty sure that is what the law says.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I am pretty sure that is what the law says.

No the Capital of Canada is Ottawa. The National Capital Region, as defined in the National Capital Act, includes the surrounding areas including Gatineau. For example a foreign country can not locate its embassy in Gatineau.

[1overcosc]

Queen Victoria issued a royal proclamation declaring Ottawa to be capital of Canada. No piece of federal legislation ever amended that proclamation. Therefore, legally, Ottawa and solely Ottawa is the capital of Canada.

Gatineau and the rural surrounds on both sides of the Ottawa River are part of the National Capital Region, but Gatineau does not form part of the National Capital proper--only the City of Ottawa does.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Queen Victoria issued a royal proclamation declaring Ottawa to be capital of Canada. No piece of federal legislation ever amended that proclamation. Therefore, legally, Ottawa and solely Ottawa is the capital of Canada.

Gatineau and the rural surrounds on both sides of the Ottawa River are part of the National Capital Region, but Gatineau does not form part of the National Capital proper--only the City of Ottawa does.

The strange thing out of this, though, is that the amalgamation of the 11 municipalities into one city of Ottawa — a piece of provincial legislation — made the official federal capital much much bigger!

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

The strange thing out of this, though, is that the amalgamation of the 11 municipalities into one city of Ottawa — a piece of provincial legislation — made the official federal capital much much bigger!

Interesting point there. I'd never thought about it, but ya, the provincial government has the right to decide the borders of the federal capital.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

The strange thing out of this, though, is that the amalgamation of the 11 municipalities into one city of Ottawa — a piece of provincial legislation — made the official federal capital much much bigger!

Apples and oranges. Municipal boundaries change all the time. I thought everyone knew that the City of Ottawa was the nation's capital. The Gatineau stuff responds .... to other issues.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

No the Capital of Canada is Ottawa. The National Capital Region, as defined in the National Capital Act, includes the surrounding areas including Gatineau. For example a foreign country can not locate its embassy in Gatineau.

That's what I was referring to, and probably what Mr. Mills was referring to as well. People get mixed up with the semantics of this but yeah, Ottawa is the capital for sure.

There are quite a few ambassadorial residences in Aylmer but probably no actual embassies you are right.

[khabibulin]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Pearson, Trudeau and Chrétien did a lot for Ottawa in terms of capital building and culture.

I know that Chretien did a lot for his friends building that stupid little musuum on Sussex drive by the Rideau falls. It quickly closed down after about 2 years.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by khabibulin

I know that Chretien did a lot for his friends building that stupid little musuum on Sussex drive by the Rideau falls. It quickly closed down after about 2 years.

Chrétien might have done some sketchy shit, but he was able to rake in a massive ah... what's it called..? it's been so long since we've had these...ha yes! surplus!!!

Yes, that's right, he was able to rack in a massive surplus while still investing in big projects for Ottawa and in new, important programs for the country. That, even with lining the pockets of a few of his close buddies.

I know he layed off a large amount of federal workers in his first term in office to do it, but he quickly balanced the books.

Harper on the other hand hired a shit load of public servants in his first term just to lay off even more people in recent years. He's cutting programs left and right, cutting funding for cultural institutions and environmental initiatives. All that and he is still running the biggest deficit in Canadian history.

That's partly because of him renaming stuff that shouldn't be renamed (museum of Civilisation, Royal Canadian Navy, Army, Air force), filling the senate with a bunch of crooks, new scandals that come up on a weekly, if not daily basis and he is also lining his buddies pockets.

Nothing is getting done to actually make the country go forward. He has a majority government and with the election 2 years away, he is still proroguing Parliament.



I agree, that little museum building is a piece of shit and a money drain. Tear it down, please.