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  #21  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2018, 10:44 PM
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Really cool thread - enjoyed it.




Any plans to turn this into a dedicated ROW? This setup was very similar to the St. Clair line in TO. It was a mixed route with stations set up as islands but converted around mid-late 2000s to a full ROW. Indeed politically controversial.

Nothing overly fancy - curbs separating traffic and the stations are nicer and more comfortable. Like this.
None. Not at all. It's almost miraculous that the trolley is there.

This line, Route 15, was one of the last three surface-only streetcar routes remaining in the city after all of the others had been dismantled and replaced by buses (one of the remaining three was the world's longest streetcar route at the time).

In 1992 our transit authority "temporarily" bustituted the three routes. They've remained buses to this day with the exception of Route 15 which returned in 2005 and only did so because neighborhoods along the east end of the line were gentrifying at the time and there was political will to make it happen. The resumption of streetcar service on The 15 was nearly killed by a local political committee member who was able to hold up the resumption of streetcar service over - and this was quite literally the case - eight parking spaces near the car barn for the streetcars that would have to have been removed to allow for turns.

Parking is sacrosanct in this city and any changes to streetscapes that limits or reduces parking is typically met with fervent resistance by the average longtime city resident.
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  #22  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2018, 2:20 AM
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I stopped in Wilmington briefly on this same trip, and am planning on posting a brief thread. There's not much transit related except the Amtrak station, though. I think I miiiight have taken one picture of the big bus stop on the square in front of city hall.
Transit in Delaware is more about interesting stories and speculation than actual transit. It's just buses here, although our Amtrak station is always 11th-busiest in the nation, occasionally in the top 10 (I think). But the buses can be interesting. We have trolley buses in the other sense: buses made to look like trolleys, after the city considered adding light rail again 10-15 years ago. There are also long-range buses that go from Wilmington/Newark to Rehoboth Beach, for shoppers and beach-goers. And, the Wilmington/Newark metro used to have a great private bus network, mainly because of MBNA, which was rolling in so much money in the 1990s that they would offer to pick up employees in small private buses for free.

Even the buses have interesting stories and discussion. Just today, my friend posted on Facebook about the argument about moving the bus hub from Rodney Square to a designated place a few blocks away. The people and users all want it to stay at Rodney Square. The companies around the square want it moved away from the park at a designated transit hub. The alterior motive, it appears, is that the companies want the homeless people who try to live at the bus hub to migrate a couple blocks away.
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  #23  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2018, 6:26 AM
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Originally Posted by volguus zildrohar View Post
None. Not at all. It's almost miraculous that the trolley is there.

This line, Route 15, was one of the last three surface-only streetcar routes remaining in the city after all of the others had been dismantled and replaced by buses (one of the remaining three was the world's longest streetcar route at the time).

In 1992 our transit authority "temporarily" bustituted the three routes. They've remained buses to this day with the exception of Route 15 which returned in 2005 and only did so because neighborhoods along the east end of the line were gentrifying at the time and there was political will to make it happen. The resumption of streetcar service on The 15 was nearly killed by a local political committee member who was able to hold up the resumption of streetcar service over - and this was quite literally the case - eight parking spaces near the car barn for the streetcars that would have to have been removed to allow for turns.

Parking is sacrosanct in this city and any changes to streetscapes that limits or reduces parking is typically met with fervent resistance by the average longtime city resident.
Interesting, thanks. So given route 15 was reinstated along gentrifying neighbourhoods, do you think it's possible the others would follow as gentrification continues? I guess this implies residents like it. Regarding parking, it's the same here (to a degree) - those opposing St. Clair went on about it too. Anyway, a nice "win" for Philadelphia.

As an aside, St. Clair was initially built as a dedicated ROW at the turn of the century then in the 1930s the grade was leveled with cobblestones to allow car use. And now back to a dedicated streetcar ROW...
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  #24  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2018, 11:39 PM
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Interesting, thanks. So given route 15 was reinstated along gentrifying neighbourhoods, do you think it's possible the others would follow as gentrification continues? I guess this implies residents like it. Regarding parking, it's the same here (to a degree) - those opposing St. Clair went on about it too. Anyway, a nice "win" for Philadelphia.

As an aside, St. Clair was initially built as a dedicated ROW at the turn of the century then in the 1930s the grade was leveled with cobblestones to allow car use. And now back to a dedicated streetcar ROW...
The other two streetcars will never return - ever.

Portions of the two routes do run through gentrified neighborhoods or areas on the cusp but I have a very hard time envisioning trolleys coming back to those neighborhoods. They lack certain factors that The 15 had going for it besides the changing neighborhoods that it operated in.

While they're cute and trendy I personally am not wild about brand-new streetcars if they aren't placed in their own ROWs which would be a serious issue in much of Philadelphia due to this city's typically narrow street gauge. Only a few arterial streets could reasonably support new streetcar service (one of the the two former routes actually did operate largely in a dedicated lane) but the neighborhood would have to support the necessary changes to the streetscape to make such a project successful and I don't see that happening.
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