What North American cities still have "white ethnic" neighborhoods?

[montréaliste]

Originally Posted by Shawn

South Boston was for many years the poorest concentration of urban white poverty in America. This was still true as late as the 70s. My dad read me the first printing of this book when I was a kid and it still sticks with me today. The destitute conditions these people existed in are shocking:


All Souls: A Story from Southie

Southie wasn't like most other Irish neighborhoods in the US: it still receives a steady stream of FBIs looking for work to this day. This probably doesn't make the news outside of Mass, but those ICE roundups you see on national TV with all the scary brown people getting kicked out? We have those in Boston, but it's pasty white Irish being rounded up along with the brown people.

I'm not sure if they're still there, but in the early 2000s you could still find multiple "26+6 = 1" wall murals on buildings in Southie. It wasn't wise to wear orange in these areas.

Montreal has a similar thing going with ethnic Irish gangsters in "The Pointe"; Pointe St-Charles.and adjacent Griffintown. The poverty and obtuseness of the environment were shameful. The Irish were suburb bound and on the up and up generally, but those old imdustrial neighborhoods were cut off by canals and the river and of course rail corridors. The infamous West End gang or Irish gang 《le clan Matticks》are still active and are as vicious as their Boston counterparts; i.e.; Whitey Bulger, et al.

[Docere]

Re: Philadelphia

Initially, many of the immigrants lived in the inner core of the city but by the early twentieth century many German, Irish, and other European immigrants moved along with native-born citizens to the suburbs. It is possible to trace the mass movements of ethnic groups to the near and, later, far suburbs of the city. For example, Germans and Jews from North Philadelphia moved to Elkins Park and Melrose Park north of the city; Italian, Polish, and Jewish residents of the river wards crossed the river into South Jersey; and Irish residents of West Philadelphia took a foothold in Delaware County suburbs.

http://philadelphiaencyclopedia.org/...ion-1870-1930/

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Docere

The Irish are iffy.

If your native language is the language of the local elite, if your religion is the religion of the local majority, if you're physically (racially) indistinguishable from the locals, and if your symbol is prominently featured on the city's flag and coat of arms, I think it's pretty obvious you're not "ethnic".

[JManc]

South Philly still really Italian? Perhaps when Rocky was still in the theaters but Italian-Americans have largely assimilated into general American culture so there's no there little need for these communities to endure. Little Italy's are a novelty for tourists. What's left are Knights of Columbus, Italian cultural centers, Italian restaurants, pizza joints, cemeteries with a bunch of vowels surrounded by a bunch of non Italians typically Hispanics or blacks.

One of my favorite Italian districts, Federal Hill in Providence, is overrun with out of towners. Little Italy is overrun with tourists.

[Docere]

Looking at Philly:

"Old" South Philadelphia is 37% Italian ancestry

Girard Estate is 39% Italian

Marconi Plaza-Packer Park is 65% Italian.

What's interesting is that is a contiguous area going from "Brooklyn" to "Staten Island."

[Docere]

Cleveland has a more Italian and Jewish east, and Eastern European west. Mayfield Heights is a largely Italian American suburb while Parma is known for its Slavic/Hungarian presence.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Docere

Looking at Philly:

"Old" South Philadelphia is 37% Italian ancestry

Wow! That's a lot more Italian than apparent at street level. Very interesting.

The streets east of Broad, south of the Italian Market, appear to be very Mexican. Maybe there are still lots of Italian grannies in those rowhomes.

[Docere]

OK...a bit mistaken. What was labelled South Philadelphia wasn't the old Italian Market part. That area is still a respectable 24% but it's much more multicultural (18% Asian).

https://statisticalatlas.com/place/P...lphia/Ancestry

Note that the newish Marconi Plaza-Packer Park area has a small population of around 6,500. Girard Estates also has some majority Italian tracts.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

'ethnic white' has a specific meaning in the US--italians, ukrainians, poles, maybe Irish.

eg white people whose ancestors came here after the civil war. Also, likely catholic.

Is "ethnic white" used in countries other than the US?

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by lio45

If your native language is the language of the local elite, if your religion is the religion of the local majority, if you're physically (racially) indistinguishable from the locals, and if your symbol is prominently featured on the city's flag and coat of arms, I think it's pretty obvious you're not "ethnic".

In many US cities (and Canadian cities, and Latin American ones), there's no one way to look racially that would lead you to distinguish local from non-local.

If you were a European, African, or Asian tourist visiting NYC, or LA, or Toronto, or Sao Paulo, you could easily pass as a local as long as you familiarize yourself with the locales and don't give away any cultural cues of foreignness.

[Kenneth]

Detroit is still working on this

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Kenneth

Detroit is still working on this

Detroit kinda, sorta, has a "white ethnic" area. Far SW Detroit has a pretty sizable contingent of Appalachian whites. Mexicans now outnumber them, but most of deep SW Detroit has a significant white population, almost all derived from (probably rural, Baptist) folks from Appalachia.

[emathias]

I think most of Chicago's "Ethnic white" neighborhoods are very diluted these days.

Bridgeport used to be quite Irish and some Eastern European like Lithuanian, but between Latino and Chinese arrivals it's nothing like in the days of the senior Daley. Beverly might still be fairly Irish.

Pilsen, obviously, hasn't been Czech in generations.

The Ukrainian Village has Ukrainian churches, at least two Ukrainian museums, and a few Ukrainian businesses, but the end of mass Ukrainian migration meant Latinos moving in and gentrification has brought hipsters and other generic whites.

Despite a couple remaining businesses, nobody would call Germans dominant in Lincoln Square anymore.

Despite a museum dedicated to Swedish-Americans, a water-tower with a Swedish flag painted on it, and 2-3 Swedish food related places, Andersonville hasn't been dominantly Swedish (or even northern European) in quite a while.

I'm not sure West Rogers Park was ever dominantly Russian, but it certainly isn't now.

The Poles who kept pushing NW along Milwaukee still carry a presence in sort of the Cragin, Belmont-Cragin, Old Irving, and Portage Park areas, but I would be surprised if they even comprise 20% of the actual population there. It is probably one of the most strongly represented "ethnic white" area of the city by number of visible businesses, though. Lots of Latino people, too, though, and a smattering of Filipinos. I like that at Tony's Fresh market on Belmont near Central you can buy Polish and Latino foods in the same place (I once saw canned "Mexican mixed vegetables" in a jar written in Polish with "Made in Poland" on it - now that's diversity ...)

Little Italy has a few restaurants, but it really doesn't have Italians like old Little Italies used to.

Humboldt Park hasn't been ethnically German/Danish/Norwegian in a long, long time.

Greektown is only Greek by virtue of restaurants.

There is a "Little Latvia" filled with Latvian Chicagoans, but apparently it's in Three Rivers, Michigan ...

[Jonesy55]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

Is "ethnic white" used in countries other than the US?

The UK census has categories for people to self-define as:

White British
White Irish
White Other

Which is quite useful if you are into that kinda thing for seeing for example which areas have concentrations of migrants from other parts of the EU. You could also look by country of birth of course but the ethnicity question will also capture some 2nd generation and beyond people, though I guess there comes a point when they will also just tick 'White British' if they feel sufficiently distant from the origins of their parents/grandparents.

[cjreisen]

Clearly NYC has a ton, I can mention since I live here.

But large Polish neighborhood in Greenpoint, Brooklyn.
HUGEEEE, and seemingly still growing Russian/Ukrainian/former USSR neighborhood in Brighton Beach.
Persistent Irish neighborhood in Woodlawn, in the Bronx.
Slowsly dispersing Greek/Egyptian neighborhood in Astoria, Queens. Seems youth in search of affordable housing, and hipsters are ruining this.
There are definitely less defined, smaller pockets of eastern europeans and other white foreigners throughout Queens and Brooklyn. For instance an Argentinian neighborhood in Queens, I forget where though.

[Capsicum]

Even though "white ethnic" as a term was used to exclude WASPs or those from the British Isles often more broadly, but include many continental Europeans with more distinctive cultures, I wonder how far people are willing to stretch the definition.

Would a 1st generation Scottish, Irish or Welsh immigrant (who had no previous links to family members in the US) arriving today be considered "white ethnic"?

Would the answer change if this individual could actually speak Scottish Gaelic, Irish or Welsh fluently, and was culturally very different from the average American?

Would white South Africans of British ancestry be considered "ethnic white"? What about Afrikaners?

How about white Australians of Anglo-Celtic ancestry, if they moved to the US, complete with an Australian accent?

What about Welsh Argentines? Would white Latin Americans of British ancestry be considered white ethnic? Curiously, under the American definition/common usage of the term, could they be considered Hispanic white, but not white ethnics?