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  #61  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2017, 7:02 PM
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^ Your dollar in Chicago:

$0.10 sales tax
$0.30 rent/mortgage
$0.20 property tax (add to rent if a renter)
$0.30 corruption tax/Govt shakedown/"betterment of society"
$0.10 whats left of that original dollar.
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  #62  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2017, 1:57 PM
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Seems like an obvious choice but Tokyo definitely. I went there for ten days just to explore the city and still feel like I didn't come close to seeing every area. It really feels like a collection of separate cities with each ward having it's own unique style. Take the five boroughs of NYC and expand that out to 23 to get a good idea.
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  #63  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2017, 9:53 PM
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I think I've gone into this before, but I view cities on a spectrum that ranges from attraction cities and experience cities. I guess it's really more of a quadrant since cities can have both or neither. But anyway, it's the experience cities that need to hacked at again and again. An attraction city can be sliced and diced, planned out and scheduled. An experience city needs to be found. You can spend many trips getting hints and feels of the experience, but you'll always want to go back to find it some more.

Just some comparisons

LA I went to with no judgements and no plans. And I was astounded by everything. The diversity and energy blew me away.

New Orleans on the other hand I went to and try to make it an attraction city. It's just not. I hated that trip. But in retrospect I get why. New Orleans is a place to eat, sit, listen, not rush from one cheap tourist trap to another.

I love Disney and will defend Orlando when it needs it, but honestly it's a pure attraction city. You go and spend your money and leave. There are charming parts, but they're not especially unique. For some reason the Brits love it though...
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  #64  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2017, 10:54 PM
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new orleans is a place to drink at (say) snake and jakes all night and meet a bunch of people from dallas or berlin or whatever that you go to breakfast with on the streetcar at sunrise. absolutely 100% an experience city.
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  #65  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2017, 11:05 PM
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i guess it masquerades as an "attraction city" with the bourbon street mess and alligator heads.
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  #66  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2017, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brickell View Post
I think I've gone into this before, but I view cities on a spectrum that ranges from attraction cities and experience cities. I guess it's really more of a quadrant since cities can have both or neither. But anyway, it's the experience cities that need to hacked at again and again. An attraction city can be sliced and diced, planned out and scheduled. An experience city needs to be found. You can spend many trips getting hints and feels of the experience, but you'll always want to go back to find it some more.

Just some comparisons

LA I went to with no judgements and no plans. And I was astounded by everything. The diversity and energy blew me away.

New Orleans on the other hand I went to and try to make it an attraction city. It's just not. I hated that trip. But in retrospect I get why. New Orleans is a place to eat, sit, listen, not rush from one cheap tourist trap to another.

I love Disney and will defend Orlando when it needs it, but honestly it's a pure attraction city. You go and spend your money and leave. There are charming parts, but they're not especially unique. For some reason the Brits love it though...
I can echo your sentiment. Outside of the theme parks Orlando as a city is rather blah.
No hate but it is uninspiring from everything related to urbanity.
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  #67  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2017, 12:46 AM
isaidso isaidso is offline
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I recall a recent thread asking "which cities were you unimpressed with?", and seeing London brought up a lot. Which is understandable - for what was a long time the largest and most important city in the world, it doesn't have the sense of grandeur that jumps out at you like it does in other European capitals. It's kind of understated and can even be downright ugly in the centre of town - but give it more time and the depth and scale of the place becomes a little more apparent.
What always shocks me the most about London is the standard of housing. Sure there are gorgeous residences but the type of housing regular Londoners live in is not what you expect in a city that was once the world's biggest city and centre of an empire.

When my mother moved to London from Finland in the 60s she was absolutely appalled at how people lived. Things have improved a ton since then but it's still a couple notches below what average income people in New World nations are accustomed to.

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Everyone's experience is different I guess, but this is one of the more bizarre assessments of Toronto I've read. The vast majority of retailers (even in the core, and even in newer, higher-rent buildings) are independents, and I can't think of a North American city besides New York and maybe Montreal that's less auto-oriented.

And midwestern burgers and beer? I don't even know where to start with that one... it's too bad if you stumbled upon a couple boring places, but the eating, drinking, and shopping options are one of the best parts of the city (and not particularly hard to find). I'll grant you that it's not the best looking place and I totally understand its charms aren't for everybody, but that's one thing you couldn't be more wrong about.
I found his viewpoint bizarre as well. There are cities that impress at first sight but start looking worse the longer one stays there. They have 200 year old palaces, cobble stone streets, and world famous sights. When you live in a place for 6 months or more you start noticing the rest.

Then there are cities that lack a Louvre or Big Ben so fail to dazzle right away. Toronto falls into this category. I admit to not liking Toronto the first 3 times I visited (1980, 1989 and 1991). I thought it was ugly and shabby (although this is changing) with no show stoppers other than the CN Tower which I also viewed as rather ugly.

The more time I spent in Toronto the more I liked it. You start appreciating things like the ravines/ravine houses, Centre Island, the waterfront, the row houses, old neighbourhoods that seem to go on forever, the knock your socks off diversity, the food, the vibrancy, the energy, a gelling Toronto culture that looks destined to explode on to the world stage, the entertainment options, and its giddy pace of growth.

Toronto is now my favourite city on earth and never ever find myself bored with the constant change and collision of cultures. Toronto might not have the best museum in the world, or the best park in the world, but it does so many things very very well. What strikes me about Toronto that isn't initially obivious is that anything and everything is on offer... even things you wouldn't expect to find like great beaches. It's a city for everyone and every income level. I even love the CN Tower now. It's fantastic and the best thing Toronto ever built.

I suppose Toronto doesn't have a mountain and if I want vineyards I have to drive an hour. No place is perfect I guess.
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Last edited by isaidso; Mar 25, 2017 at 1:15 AM.
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  #68  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2017, 4:13 AM
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Toronto does most things very well. It just lacks a distinctive identity in people's heads. Some of that is a lack of iconic geography, and some is getting less attention from the US media machine because it's in Canada.
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  #69  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2017, 4:51 AM
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Toronto does most things very well. It just lacks a distinctive identity in people's heads. Some of that is a lack of iconic geography, and some is getting less attention from the US media machine because it's in Canada.
I'd argue Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal, and Quebec City don't have this issue. Ottawa too, I guess.

Which is weird because Toronto is definitely distinctive as a city.... it's just hard to articulate exactly how. It isn't as simple as spiral staircases and bagels for Montreal or brownstones and skyscrapers for New York. It isn't a city easily defined by one line, unless I guess you go with the diversity angle. Not that that isn't a huge component of Toronto, but there's more to it than that.

And really, Canada just needs a better media machine. With the internet and the breaking down of barriers, it's getting better. But classically, Toronto has been given a lot of prominence in our media (some say too much).
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  #70  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2017, 5:15 AM
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I'd argue Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal, and Quebec City don't have this issue. Ottawa too, I guess.
Really? I'd say that Toronto currently gets much more U.S. media attention than any of those cities. Ottawa in particular is practically unknown to many Americans.
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  #71  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2017, 6:00 AM
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Really all Canadian cities get less attention in the US and in US media than they'd get if they were in the US.

I was shocked to find out how big Ottawa was, after many years of thinking I pay attention to such things. We really don't hear about it at all aside from the occasional reference to the national government.
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  #72  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2017, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by softee View Post
Really? I'd say that Toronto currently gets much more U.S. media attention than any of those cities. Ottawa in particular is practically unknown to many Americans.
Agreed..I found that statement a little strange myself.
It's safe to assume that Toronto is universally known everywhere.

Ottawa is probably heard of by a lot of people South of the border, but it isn't exactly a household name like Toronto.

Just a hunch, and maybe I'm downplaying Ottawa because it as a national capital, but as a comparison I'm guessing Americans heard of Ottawa about as much as Canadians heard of Richmond Virginia or Corpus Christi Texas.

Last edited by Razor; Mar 25, 2017 at 11:40 AM.
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  #73  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2017, 11:41 PM
isaidso isaidso is offline
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Well I imagine most foreigners think Toronto is the capital of Canada.
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  #74  
Old Posted Yesterday, 1:43 AM
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Typically, international visitors to Eastern Canada will bypass Ottawa when visiting Montreal and Toronto simply because it does not have much international recognition and because it is not on that direct line between Montreal and Toronto, even though it is only a slight diversion from that direct line.
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  #75  
Old Posted Today, 12:09 AM
ue ue is offline
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Originally Posted by softee View Post
Really? I'd say that Toronto currently gets much more U.S. media attention than any of those cities. Ottawa in particular is practically unknown to many Americans.
Sorry, I should've been clearer in my post. The bolded part was in responded to in the second paragraph. My initial line was a response to cities having a "distinctive identity", as you put it. I'd say all those cities have distinctive identities, but yeah, by the US media machine, Toronto comes out on top and only Montreal and Vancouver can really compare. Places like Nova Scotia and Niagara Falls (Ontario) figure a bit higher than you'd expect in their media.
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  #76  
Old Posted Today, 2:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ue View Post
Sorry, I should've been clearer in my post. The bolded part was in responded to in the second paragraph. My initial line was a response to cities having a "distinctive identity", as you put it. I'd say all those cities have distinctive identities, but yeah, by the US media machine, Toronto comes out on top and only Montreal and Vancouver can really compare. Places like Nova Scotia and Niagara Falls (Ontario) figure a bit higher than you'd expect in their media.
Toronto gets a lot of U.S. media oomph by virtue of being in the MLB and NBA, so its name is in the sports scores every day during those leagues' seasons.

TIFF (film festival) also contributes to its reknown stateside.
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