Surrey Langley Skytrain - Expo Line Extension | Proposed

[Reecemartin]

Originally Posted by casper

Here is a photo of Flexity Outlook. Probably more appropriate for Surrey. This is the narrower tram that was in use for Olympics in Vancouver.


Source: Wikipedia

Pretty sure the Outlooks are the ones uniquely designed for Toronto Streetcar network but not 100% sure.

Whoever thinks Uber will replace buses forgets that cars seat at most 7 people and you will create tons of traffic if everyone Ubers.

Of course crashes are possible but not with the hyperbolic frequency being suggested, I'd guess we might see a collision once every few months at most which is pretty similar to other systems.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Pretty sure the Outlooks are the ones uniquely designed for Toronto Streetcar network but not 100% sure.

Whoever thinks Uber will replace buses forgets that cars seat at most 7 people and you will create tons of traffic if everyone Ubers.

Of course crashes are possible but not with the hyperbolic frequency being suggested, I'd guess we might see a collision once every few months at most which is pretty similar to other systems.

Nope, these trains were for Brussels in Belgium, hence the .be web address.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Pretty sure the Outlooks are the ones uniquely designed for Toronto Streetcar network but not 100% sure.

Whoever thinks Uber will replace buses forgets that cars seat at most 7 people and you will create tons of traffic if everyone Ubers.

Of course crashes are possible but not with the hyperbolic frequency being suggested, I'd guess we might see a collision once every few months at most which is pretty similar to other systems.

Try every day, go look at trimet's reports, they have thousands of accidents every month. The ones that get reported by media are the ones that derail the LRV. Even Calgary is not immune to the LRV driver who puts it in reverse and sends the LRV off the end of the yard.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Whoever thinks Uber will replace buses forgets that cars seat at most 7 people and you will create tons of traffic if everyone Ubers.

Pfffffffffffffffft.

Well, try taking late night transit. And dealing with the limited amounts of cabs, as well as those asshole drivers that don't wanna take you to your destination because it's "too far and they won't make enough money".

Then talk shit about Uber.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Pfffffffffffffffft.

Well, try taking late night transit. And dealing with the limited amounts of cabs, as well as those asshole drivers that don't wanna take you to your destination because it's "too far and they won't make enough money".

Then talk shit about Uber.

Geez, nobody's saying that Uber or autonomous vehicles aren't coming. Just that they can't replace transit. There's simply no way to take all the people off transit and plop them into autonomous vehicles and expect anything except total gridlock, and for a lot larger a proportion of the day than we have it now. Especially if you're talking about autonomous vehicles that are going to rejoin the traffic searching for their next customer instead of being parked off the road somewhere. It's simple geometry, you can only fit so many vehicles on the streets.

Every person taking the bus or Skytrain is leaving a bit of space on the road available for other people such as yourself. Even if you don't benefit from transit directly, you certainly benefit indirectly.

[logan5]

Surrey has a 10% transit mode share, so there isn't a huge number of people that would be on the roads.

Uber and all these taxi companies will have an option for sharing rides with other customers during peak times (Uber already does this) to cut costs. Certainly former bus riders would go for this option (reducing number of vehicles on the road), and a lot of people will just get rid of their car because of how cheap and convenient these services will be - more cars off the road.

Road congestion will actually decrease.

[Reecemartin]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Pfffffffffffffffft.

Well, try taking late night transit. And dealing with the limited amounts of cabs, as well as those asshole drivers that don't wanna take you to your destination because it's "too far and they won't make enough money".

Then talk shit about Uber.

I'm not "talking shit" about Uber. Obviously we should have had ridesharing years ago in Vancouver but theres no way its ever going to replace mass transit.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by logan5

Surrey has a 10% transit mode share, so there isn't a huge number of people that would be on the roads.

Uber and all these taxi companies will have an option for sharing rides with other customers during peak times (Uber already does this) to cut costs. Certainly former bus riders would go for this option (reducing number of vehicles on the road), and a lot of people will just get rid of their car because of how cheap and convenient these services will be - more cars off the road.

Road congestion will actually decrease.

And then as more and more people use Uber/Lyft/other rideshares, the amount of rideshare vehicles will climb, and then congestion increases again.

Remember:

[logan5]

Drawing from information that is currently available, it is likely that a driverless taxi or an Uber like service will be cost competitive with public transit, albeit in a car pooling service (similar to Lyft Shuttle). Translink may even deploy a fleet of its own vehicles. If people can commute to work in a car, even if the ride is shared, they will. So back to my original point, those LRT tracks will be torn up in 15 years to make way for autonomous vehicles of some type.

I don't think road capacity will be an issue. Driverless vehicles will be more efficient drivers than humans, and overall transit share in Metro Vancouver is 13%, so, to me, that's easy to overcome.

Hepner's Surrey LRT is already obsolete.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by logan5

Drawing from information that is currently available, it is likely that a driverless taxi or an Uber like service will be cost competitive with public transit, albeit in a car pooling service (similar to Lyft Shuttle). Translink may even deploy a fleet of its own vehicles. If people can commute to work in a car, even if the ride is shared, they will. So back to my original point, those LRT tracks will be torn up in 15 years to make way for autonomous vehicles of some type.

I don't think road capacity will be an issue. Driverless vehicles will be more efficient drivers than humans, and overall transit share in Metro Vancouver is 13%, so, to me, that's easy to overcome.

Hepner's Surrey LRT is already obsolete.

A) The numbers I'm getting are that minimum Uber fare is $5-ish CAD, yet Uber is still losing money - if TransLink could charge $5/trip, we'd have SkyTrain to White Rock by now!

B) Rideshare pools will at best replace HandyDARTs and some of the lesser-used bus routes, freeing up resources for more important routes. Widespread PRT has been proven to be both less economical and less useful than regular transit.

C) Self-driving cars optimize traffic; unless they can make themselves or the people inside them smaller, or get their own tunnel/guideway, they can't reduce traffic like transit does.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

A) The numbers I'm getting are that minimum Uber fare is $5-ish CAD, yet Uber is still losing money - if TransLink could charge $5/trip, we'd have SkyTrain to White Rock by now!

B) Rideshare pools will at best replace HandyDARTs and some of the lesser-used bus routes, freeing up resources for more important routes. Widespread PRT has been proven to be both less economical and less useful than regular transit.

C) Self-driving cars optimize traffic; unless they can make themselves or the people inside them smaller, or get their own tunnel/guideway, they can't reduce traffic like transit does.

The reason Uber is not making a profit is they have to pay people to drive cars. With driverless cars that cost disappears.

Getting a rental car at corporate rates your probably paying about $40 per day (24 hours). That is not a lot of money. Maybe add another $10 for gas.
Do 12 trips a day your under $5 per trip.

[flipper316]

https://www.thestar.com/amp/news/gta...nel.html:koko:

[casper]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

Nope, these trains were for Brussels in Belgium, hence the .be web address.

Yes. And the city of Vancouver has longterm plans for street cars.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by logan5

Drawing from information that is currently available, it is likely that a driverless taxi or an Uber like service will be cost competitive with public transit, albeit in a car pooling service (similar to Lyft Shuttle). Translink may even deploy a fleet of its own vehicles.

People always seem to miss this, but the same autonomous technology can be applied to transit vehicles. In fact, it's easier because the routes are fixed and can be extensively mapped, making it easier on the self-driving logic. What that means is that drivers can be eliminated from buses too, and since the labour is the biggest cost factor it means that transit will also be cheaper. So it's a bit short-sighted to say that Uber will be cost-competitive with transit, especially since the capital and operating costs of 40 to 100 vehicles are never going to be able to match those of a single large bus.

Originally Posted by logan5

If people can commute to work in a car, even if the ride is shared, they will.

Carpooling has never made any significant inroads to mode share, and I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that autonomous vehicles are going to change that. The majority of people who disdain transit seem to want direct point-to-point transportation that they don't have to share with the common folk.

Originally Posted by logan5

So back to my original point, those LRT tracks will be torn up in 15 years to make way for autonomous vehicles of some type.

With the tracks are in place it's far, far more likely that the manually-driven trainsets will be replaced with autonomous ones.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by casper

Yes. And the city of Vancouver has longterm plans for street cars.

Thanks for the hot tip.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by logan5

Surrey has a 10% transit mode share, so there isn't a huge number of people that would be on the roads.

Uber and all these taxi companies will have an option for sharing rides with other customers during peak times (Uber already does this) to cut costs. Certainly former bus riders would go for this option (reducing number of vehicles on the road), and a lot of people will just get rid of their car because of how cheap and convenient these services will be - more cars off the road.

Road congestion will actually decrease.

This is wrong. This is false. This is incredibly incorrect.

Numerous studies have been done that show that the introduction of ride-sharing services such as Uber and Lyft have increased congestion. Here's one for New York City. Here's one that looked at Boston, Chicago, LA, NYC, San Fran, Seattle, and Washington, DC. That last one found that ride-hailing services shift people away from buses and light rail by 6% and 3%, respectively, and that between 49 and 61% of trips made with ride-hailing services either wouldn't have been made at all, or would have been done via transit, bike, or foot, which means that all of these trips are adding vehicle miles travelled in cities.

It's a proven fact that ride-sharing makes congestion worse. They add vehicles to the road, those vehicles travel more miles, and they take passengers away from transit systems. Saying that they're going to do the opposite is completely wrong.

[Reecemartin]

While autonomous tech will obviously make everything more efficient whoever mentioned that Uber etc is most likely to replace suburban routes is spot on.

[Reecemartin]

So walking to class today I noticed that they were using streetcar replacement buses because Toronto's old streetcars are unreliable in extreme cold and as we all know Bombardier has been doing terrible at delivering on time. It really highlights the capacity difference of bus vs streetcar and that's noting that streetcars Toronto is using on this route are much smaller than the new streetcars/light rail vehicles. Eaxh streetcar requires 3 buses to substitute for the decreased capacity. This amount of buses actually creates significant traffic and with them weaving in and out to stop they themselves
seem like a significant hazard.

https://imgur.com/gallery/rqQy4

[flipper316]

https://globalnews.ca/news/3953517/i...t-rail-subway/

Maybe Corrigan being the head isn't such a bad thing. Let the bloodbath between Hepner and Corrigan begin!!

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

So walking to class today I noticed that they were using streetcar replacement buses because Toronto's old streetcars are unreliable in extreme cold and as we all know Bombardier has been doing terrible at delivering on time. It really highlights the capacity difference of bus vs streetcar and that's noting that streetcars Toronto is using on this route are much smaller than the new streetcars/light rail vehicles. Eaxh streetcar requires 3 buses to substitute for the decreased capacity. This amount of buses actually creates significant traffic and with them weaving in and out to stop they themselves seem like a significant hazard.

Note that those buses are mostly empty. I know I wasn't there, but the problem seems more to do with the buses bunching up due to traffic (common problem here too).

Originally Posted by flipper316

https://globalnews.ca/news/3953517/i...t-rail-subway/

Maybe Corrigan being the head isn't such a bad thing. Let the bloodbath between Hepner and Corrigan begin!!

Holy crap, it's like Aliens vs Predator. Which one's which, I wonder?