HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #4881  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2018, 10:40 PM
bzcat bzcat is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
L.A needs some kind of rapid transit suburban rail. The area is very large for light rail. Why don't they do something like London has, with Overground or RER in Paris or Sydney. Aren't there any old tracks to use in the area?
Lots of tracks in the LA metro suburban area but they are all active freight lines with diesel locomotives. Which is why our mainline passenger suburban service (Metrolink) can only operate peak hour commuter service because they have to share the tracks with freight trains. It would be nice for Metrolink to electrify and run all day RER/Overland/JL East type suburban schedule but that's not going to happen as long as train tracks are private property.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4882  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2018, 6:15 AM
caligrad's Avatar
caligrad caligrad is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 1,325
Quote:
Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
Not as sexy as rail, but a novelty in the US, for sure.

Electric Double-Decker Buses to Service Downtown Los Angeles in 2019

July 12, 2018 by Susan Carpenter

Double-decker transit buses are an icon in London and a mainstay in other European cities, but stateside? Not so much.

But this week a transit agency serving commuters in the San Gabriel Valley just outside Los Angeles announced that it would add a pair of double-decker buses to its fleet. The fact that they’re electric makes them a double novelty.

“We believe that electric vehicles are there,” said Doran Barnes, executive director of Foothill Transit — the first transit agency in North America to use all-electric double-decker buses. Already, about a third of its 370-bus fleet is electric, and it plans to go entirely electric by 2030.

“There’s still things to be learned,” Barnes said, “but we’re leaning in and leading the industry in advancing the technology.”

The double-deck buses can carry 80 passengers in the same footprint as a 38-passenger single-deck bus, Barnes said. In an increasingly congested part of the country where every inch of road space counts, stacking passengers holds the potential to reduce traffic.

And doing so on an electric platform also helps one of the region’s other entrenched issues: air pollution. The National Renewable Energy Laboratory found that electric buses were eight times more energy efficient than those that ran on natural gas.

“We wanted to help Foothill, but it didn’t make a whole lot of sense for us to develop a double-decker bus,” said Ryan Popple, chief executive of Proterra, one of two major electric bus companies based in California.



[...]

Link: https://www.trucks.com/2018/07/12/el...s-los-angeles/
I swear Metro throws anything it can against the wall and hope that it sticks to fool all of us. WHY does downtown need double decker busses??? so this means they will be redoing a lot of street/traffic lights to accommodate these taller buses? I'd rather they use these along looong corridors to determine if LRT/HRT will be needed soon. Like busy corridors Vermont, Slauson, Venice Blvd, pico, Santa Monica blvd, etc. instead of what I will assume will be endless loops circling downtown. And why these busses, what happened to the streetcar???
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4883  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2018, 7:27 AM
numble numble is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by caligrad View Post
I swear Metro throws anything it can against the wall and hope that it sticks to fool all of us. WHY does downtown need double decker busses??? so this means they will be redoing a lot of street/traffic lights to accommodate these taller buses? I'd rather they use these along looong corridors to determine if LRT/HRT will be needed soon. Like busy corridors Vermont, Slauson, Venice Blvd, pico, Santa Monica blvd, etc. instead of what I will assume will be endless loops circling downtown. And why these busses, what happened to the streetcar???
These buses were bought by Foothill Transit, a separate transit agency in the San Gabriel Valley.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4884  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2018, 7:50 AM
saybanana saybanana is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Southern California
Posts: 111
The name on the bus is Foothill Transit NOT Metro. So not sure why you want to blame Metro. They are not the same company. There are over 20 different transit companies in LA county. For someone in Long Beach should know that cuz they have their own transit company separate from Metro.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4885  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2018, 10:45 PM
bzcat bzcat is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by caligrad View Post
I swear Metro throws anything it can against the wall and hope that it sticks to fool all of us. WHY does downtown need double decker busses??? so this means they will be redoing a lot of street/traffic lights to accommodate these taller buses? I'd rather they use these along looong corridors to determine if LRT/HRT will be needed soon. Like busy corridors Vermont, Slauson, Venice Blvd, pico, Santa Monica blvd, etc. instead of what I will assume will be endless loops circling downtown. And why these busses, what happened to the streetcar???
Are you serious?

1. Foothill Transit is not Metro

2. Street lights are all standard height to accommodate all vehicles allowed under vehicle code. There is no need to replace any of them.

3. LA already has double decker buses.





4. And this is also not the first time double deck buses will be used for public transit in LA. We had them in the 1970-2000s.




Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4886  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2018, 11:05 PM
bzcat bzcat is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 307


Photo from last year when the Enviro500 demonstrator was here. It ran on the Silverstreak route from Monteclair to Downtown LA for 2 weeks with free rides.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4887  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2018, 11:13 PM
Muji's Avatar
Muji Muji is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 1,160
Neat! I'm a fan of double decker and electric buses so I for one am excited for Foothill Transit riders.
__________________
My blog of then and now photos of LA: http://urbandiachrony.wordpress.com
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4888  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2018, 1:22 AM
Busy Bee's Avatar
Busy Bee Busy Bee is offline
Leftist Correctist
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Spaceship Earth
Posts: 5,151
And that's a good looking double decker to boot. Win win.
__________________
You slip me the cash and I'll slip you the wiener. <><><><><><>IMPEACHMENT NOW!

For me it can be reduced to this: For every personal freedom we gained from the automobile, we lost in social cohesion.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4889  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2018, 9:30 AM
caligrad's Avatar
caligrad caligrad is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 1,325
Wink

I'm always amused when people take it from 0 to 100 in a second with sarcasm. Tough times we live in .

Yes there are dozens of transit agencies in the region and yes they are all different and yes.....yes I'm from Long Beach?.....ok...cool....at the end of the day, these agencies all work together to avoid stepping on each others toes with construction and schedules, metro may not have came up with the idea but its aware. I mean.... Its full name is literally the Los Angeles COUNTY Transportation Authority.

To be clear. I'm not blaming metro for double decker buses or anything. I blame metro for not having a solid view of the future for this cities/counties transit needs. That way, neighboring agencies will have some form of guidance with future projects. The current foothill fleet apparently is already pretty packed AND is already sitting in traffic. So replacing the long articulated buses with Double Decker buses does what exactly ? same capacity and sitting in the same traffic

At this point in LAs life, buses are Band-Aids. Why continue to put Band-Aids on bullet holes? "Well bus lanes work wonderful" yeah when they aren't blocked by parked cars our tourists and locals who are confused on why its a bus lane only part time.

As someone who drives a around a loooooooot in this city....Not all traffic lights are created equal. Some will need to be altered. There have been a plenty a times where I've watched a semi graze the blue hanging street sign or watch the tourist traps have to make a detour off their normal route just to have everyone on the top level immediately drop for cover to avoid getting injured. True story just last week.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4890  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2018, 7:09 PM
Prahaboheme Prahaboheme is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,543
The benefit of double decker buses was addressed in the article:

"The double-deck buses can carry 80 passengers in the same footprint as a 38-passenger single-deck bus, Barnes said."

They are also electric.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4891  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2018, 8:11 PM
llamaorama llamaorama is offline
Unicorn Wizard!
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,168
A double decker bus running in a completely segregated and traffic free HOV lane for long distances could, IMO, serve a similar purpose as commuter rail in corridors where ridership is not sufficient to justify the latter.

Plus they look fun to ride. You get a view.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4892  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2018, 1:09 AM
bzcat bzcat is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by caligrad View Post
I'm always amused when people take it from 0 to 100 in a second with sarcasm. Tough times we live in .
LOL sarcasm defense. It's obvious that you didn't bother reading what was posted.

Quote:
Yes there are dozens of transit agencies in the region and yes they are all different and yes.....yes I'm from Long Beach?.....ok...cool....at the end of the day, these agencies all work together to avoid stepping on each others toes with construction and schedules, metro may not have came up with the idea but its aware. I mean.... Its full name is literally the Los Angeles COUNTY Transportation Authority.
Not sure what that has to do with Foothill Transit buying some double decker buses.

Quote:
To be clear. I'm not blaming metro for double decker buses or anything. I blame metro for not having a solid view of the future for this cities/counties transit needs. That way, neighboring agencies will have some form of guidance with future projects. The current foothill fleet apparently is already pretty packed AND is already sitting in traffic. So replacing the long articulated buses with Double Decker buses does what exactly ? same capacity and sitting in the same traffic

At this point in LAs life, buses are Band-Aids. Why continue to put Band-Aids on bullet holes? "Well bus lanes work wonderful" yeah when they aren't blocked by parked cars our tourists and locals who are confused on why its a bus lane only part time.
Silvestreak is suburban commuter service from deep SGV to Downtown LA via (mostly) bus way. This is literally a textbook example of how to use high capacity buses to serve low density far flung suburbs.

Double decker bus also works better when road space is limited because they have smaller footprint. Plus Foothill Transit has a stated goal to go all electric. Articulated 60ft bus has to deal with weight of batteries that can cause uneven weight balance and none of the current available model has great field performance. Given similar passenger capacity, double decker EV bus form factor is probably better than articulated EV bus for how Foothill Transit wants to use the bus.


Quote:
As someone who drives a around a loooooooot in this city....Not all traffic lights are created equal. Some will need to be altered. There have been a plenty a times where I've watched a semi graze the blue hanging street sign or watch the tourist traps have to make a detour off their normal route just to have everyone on the top level immediately drop for cover to avoid getting injured. True story just last week.
WE ALREADY HAVE DOUBLE DECKER BUSES THAT RUN ALL OVER LA. You don't need to make up stories to justify your nonsensical post on the subject. Traffic signal lights are all subject to very strict standards and they can accommodate all vehicles that conform to the vehicle code. Enviro500 meets the vehicle code so it will have no problem operating on LA streets or freeways.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4893  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2018, 1:16 AM
Trae's Avatar
Trae Trae is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Los Angeles and Houston
Posts: 4,288
City of Inglewood considering a people mover from the Downtown Inglewood station (La Brea at Florence) to the new stadium:

Quote:
The project, as detailed in a study first spotted by the Daily Breeze, is proposed as an approximately 1.8-mile automated people mover system - similar to that which will link the Crenshaw Line with Los Angeles International Airport. A map of the preferred alternative shows a meandering route starting at the upcoming Downtown Inglewood rail station, proceeding south down Market Street before turning east onto Manchester, then turning south onto Prairie Avenue. Current plans call for five total stations, which would be located at or near:
  • Market Street and Florence Avenue
  • Market Street and Manchester Avenue
  • The Forum
  • The Los Angeles Stadium and Entertainment District
  • The proposed Inglewood Basketball and Entertainment Center
Alternative technologies such as rubber-tired trains, monorail, and steel-wheeled trains were also studied.
Quote:
The study estimates that average weekday ridership for the Market-Manchester alignment would be nearly 5,000 passengers, amounting to approximately 2.6 million annual trips. An estimated 1.02 million annual trips would also be taken by attendees of events at the NFL Stadium and other venues, which is not accounted for in the previous figure.

A proposed fleet of 32 vehicles would operate at maximum speeds of 50 miles per hour, with an estimated round trip time of just under 13 minutes. Trains would operate in maximum four-car sets, with normal frequencies of approximately six minutes. Special event days would see frequencies between 1.5 and 3.5 minutes.




Quote:
Construction costs - based on 2018 conditions - are estimated at $614.4 million for the Market-Manchester alignment, making it the least expensive of the four routes studied. Cost estimates for the other three alignments range between $625 million and $769 million.

Funding could be provided through an enhanced infrastructure finance district and a variety of local, state, and federal sources, according to the study.
More: https://urbanize.la/post/inglewood-c...ne-nfl-stadium
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4894  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2018, 6:33 AM
SFBruin SFBruin is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Daly City, CA
Posts: 49
Inglewood is really making the most of the Crenshaw Line.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4895  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2018, 1:08 PM
Busy Bee's Avatar
Busy Bee Busy Bee is offline
Leftist Correctist
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Spaceship Earth
Posts: 5,151
^That seems like an absurdly overkill solution that could be accomplished by a tram in dedicated ROW. For 5,000 daily riders?
__________________
You slip me the cash and I'll slip you the wiener. <><><><><><>IMPEACHMENT NOW!

For me it can be reduced to this: For every personal freedom we gained from the automobile, we lost in social cohesion.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4896  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2018, 11:12 PM
bzcat bzcat is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 307
Not a bad idea and I understand the choice for fully automated operation for a relatively short line... but I have to say it is not the most logical use of grade separation. This kind of corridor is better served by a streetcar running at grade. Here is all the reasons why:

1. Downtown Inglewood station is an at grade station at Florence/La Brea. It will not be an easy transition to an elevated APM station across the street. A more user friendly design will be to have a parallel at grade street car station next to the Metro station.

2. Market Street between Regent and Manchester (Downtown Inglewood) is a narrow 1 lane street with wide sidewalks and traditional "downtown" setting. It is perfect for conversion to a car-free pedestrian plaza with at grade street car running in the middle. Putting an elevated train over this street is a huge planning mistake and will ruin the pedestrian oriented setting.

3. Manchester and Prairie are both super wide streets that can easily accommodate a center-running street car line. This is an opportunity to redesign these streets to be community oriented rather than a thoroughfare for commuters. Putting an elevated train on these streets is again, a missed opportunity.

I think the best design here is to use a center running streetcar with a select few grade separation at major intersection. This is one of the free times that a fully grade separated line doesn't make any sense.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4897  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2018, 5:25 AM
SoCalKid SoCalKid is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 307
So apparently Metro ended up with $200 million in excess funds in the expo line construction account, and recently transferred most of it to purple line construction. My question is, why wouldn't they use that money for grade separation to improve the reliability and speed of the line?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4898  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2018, 5:59 AM
SFBruin SFBruin is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Daly City, CA
Posts: 49
Unpopular opinion here (most likely), but I actually feel like the construction of the Expo Line, particularly between La Brea and Sepulveda, is really cheap and needs to be re-done.

I feel like the constant elevation and de-elevation between these two points is a little bit nauseating and should have been smoothed out.

I can't help but think that it was value-engineered a bit.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4899  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2018, 2:40 PM
electricron's Avatar
electricron electricron is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Granbury, Texas
Posts: 2,934
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by SFBruin View Post
Unpopular opinion here (most likely), but I actually feel like the construction of the Expo Line, particularly between La Brea and Sepulveda, is really cheap and needs to be re-done.

I feel like the constant elevation and de-elevation between these two points is a little bit nauseating and should have been smoothed out.

I can't help but think that it was value-engineered a bit.
Actually, it was more expensive to elevate and de-elevate the Expo Line than keeping it at grade the entire way. Yet I’ll admit it was cheaper to return to grade as often as possible between the locales they wanted it elevated vs keeping it elevated the entire way. Never-the-less, building a tunnel under I-10 was probably more expensive than building an even higher viaduct over it, I would think the nearby neighborhoods would have preferred the tunnel over a higher viaduct. One could argue they could have built the entire Expo Line elevated the entire way all the way into downtown east of La Brea as well.

But, like almost everybody else, transit agencies must provide all their services within a finite budget. An additional expense here means less money is available there. It’s a balancing act, trying to get the most value for each and every penny. And that’s what we should be celebrating instead of questioning every attempt to save here so more can be spent there.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4900  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2018, 3:17 PM
Trae's Avatar
Trae Trae is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Los Angeles and Houston
Posts: 4,288
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalKid View Post
So apparently Metro ended up with $200 million in excess funds in the expo line construction account, and recently transferred most of it to purple line construction. My question is, why wouldn't they use that money for grade separation to improve the reliability and speed of the line?
It's a mystery. In an ideal world, the Expo Line would be in a subway from 7th/Metro to the Western Station, then elevated to Santa Monica. With this, you'd eliminate the Expo Park station, which is so close to the Vermont station anyway. It's still a mystery how transit riders will connect to the Crenshaw Line too. Metro half-assing the system is going to bite all of us in the ass in ten years.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 3:09 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.