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  #221  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2008, 12:23 AM
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^ Well of course not... but I do think it would be a significant number... if you look at the amount of condos that are two 30+ storey buildings there are dozens of such developments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodlookin' View Post
Yeah ... that an average condo development in Vancouver
Well its not average becuase of the planning restrictions, like I pointed out it has a similar number of units to most other developments which are two 30 storey buildings stuck under a view cone.

Either way I think we can all just drop this and agree that most major cities in Canada have been hampered in skyline height growth due to restrictions, and determining which one has been more restricted than another is really not a question we can easily qualitatively answer.

Now whether these restrictions are a good thing or not... well thats a whole other can of worms!
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  #222  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2008, 1:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodlookin' View Post
60+ storeys though!?! maybe one or two every development cycle but no where near the number Toronto's market could support if developers were given free reign

Yes, goodlookin' your right again.

Not 60 storey towers.


I was thinking lots of 40 to 50 storey towers.


60 storeys...hmm: I think Shangri La Vancouver is the last we'll see of that for a while.
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  #223  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2008, 4:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caltrane74 View Post
I think Shangri La Vancouver is the last we'll see of that for a while.
^ I disagree.

The MetroCore Jobs study is wrapping up and it will likely recommend upzoning the entire CBD and allowing more height within it and the CBD shoulder. Also the draft EcoDensity charter will introduce sustainability excellence as a option for density bonusing in addition to the standard density bonusing menu. EcoDensity is also set to require high levels of building environmental performance for all new projects, though the exact rating has yet to be determined, let alone passed by council.

Put these into the hopper and factor in the shortage of easily developable land downtown and I think we can expect to see a general increase in height in the CBD and CBD shoulder areas.

The thing to remember about Vancouver is that concentrating development in the downtown core has pretty much kept the peace for the last ten to fifteen years. Now that the core is filling up and development is seeping out the NIMBYs have been stirred up like dust and EcoDensity, or whatever the next phase of development could have been called, is the target. If push comes to shove I think you will see the NIMBYs side with taller downtown development over anything in their backyards.
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  #224  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2008, 4:43 PM
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Quote:
Well its not average becuase of the planning restrictions, like I pointed out it has a similar number of units to most other developments which are two 30 storey buildings stuck under a view cone
It's not average becuase of the price per square foot. Two 30 storey towers will always be cheaper and easier to sell than one 60 storey tower and that doesn't matter how hot the market is, how high the average price per square foot is for, how expensive the the average price per square foot land is, and the average cost of construction per square foot.

There are many reasons to how tall but the one that stands out in this discussion is how large of a market and how much can it absord in a set period of time. If you were to double Vancouver's downtown market, you still would have Toronto's
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  #225  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2008, 5:05 PM
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Sold out and awaiting construction for one reason or another in Toronto


1. Trump Tower Toronto - 282 Meters (Toronto)
2. One Bloor - 276 Metres (Toronto)
3. The Bow - 236 Meters (Calgary)
4. Bay Adelaide Centre - 218 Meters (Toronto)
5. Shangri-La - 213 Metres (Toronto)
6. Eighth Avenue Place 1 - 210 Metres (Calgary)
7. Ritz Carlton Toronto - 208 Meters (Toronto)
8. L Tower - 205 Metres (Toronto)
9. Shangri La - 196 Metres (Vancouver)
10. Four Seasons - 195 Metres (Toronto)

11. Maple Leaf Square - 186 Meters (Toronto)
12. RBC Centre - 183 Meters (Toronto)
12. Ritz Carlton Vancouver - 183 Meters (Vancouver)
14. Niagara Hilton - 177 Meters (Nisgara Falls)
15. Centennial Place - 176 Meters (Calgary)
16. Jamison Place - 170 Meters (Calgary)
17. Absolute World - 167 Meters (Mississauga)
18. ArriVa 44 - 160 Meters (Calgary)
19. Minto Midtown - 160 Meters (Toronto)
20. Burano - 158 Metres (Toronto)
21. Success Tower 157 Meters (Toronto)
21. Toronto International Film Festival Tower 157 Meters (Toronto)
23. Residences at Hotel Georgia 156 Meters (Vancouver)
24. Absolute World 2 -151 Metres (Mississauga)
25. Fairmont Pacific Rim 140 Meters (Vancouver)
25. Murano South Tower 140 Meters (Toronto)
25. Star Tower 140 Metres (Toronto)
28. Epcor Tower 139.0 Meters (Edmonton)
29. Casa 138 Meters (Toronto)
30. The X Condominium 137 Meters (Toronto)
30. Montage -Cityplace 137 Meters (Toronto)



and this is just the start of more relaxed limits

Last edited by WhipperSnapper; Mar 1, 2008 at 5:17 PM.
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  #226  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2008, 11:57 PM
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Holy Shit, goodlookin'!

We have 4 towers headed to the top 10!!

goodness.
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  #227  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2008, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFUVancouver View Post
^ I disagree.

The MetroCore Jobs study is wrapping up and it will likely recommend upzoning the entire CBD and allowing more height within it and the CBD shoulder. Also the draft EcoDensity charter will introduce sustainability excellence as a option for density bonusing in addition to the standard density bonusing menu. EcoDensity is also set to require high levels of building environmental performance for all new projects, though the exact rating has yet to be determined, let alone passed by council.

Put these into the hopper and factor in the shortage of easily developable land downtown and I think we can expect to see a general increase in height in the CBD and CBD shoulder areas.

The thing to remember about Vancouver is that concentrating development in the downtown core has pretty much kept the peace for the last ten to fifteen years. Now that the core is filling up and development is seeping out the NIMBYs have been stirred up like dust and EcoDensity, or whatever the next phase of development could have been called, is the target. If push comes to shove I think you will see the NIMBYs side with taller downtown development over anything in their backyards.

^ I agree

With everything you said. Which is why I said there would be taller buildings coming down the pipe on average for Vancouver. Just not Shangri La size.

There is just too much "cost"-vs-"benefit" with building that tall (60+ S) in such a pretty city.

You guys will see a lot of developments in the 40-50 storey range. Which is something that hadn't been happening before. But you'll start to see alot more of now.

Mark this post for your records - If we see one building go into sales in Vancouver over 60 storeys in the next 2 years. I'll give anyone that disagrees with me on this post 100 bux each. ( Cause I just don't think it'll happen - And I'm that confident)
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  #228  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2008, 8:48 AM
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Woodwards Vancouver | 121 Metres | March 1st 2008


(My photo, taken March 1st, 2008)
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Last edited by SFUVancouver; Mar 2, 2008 at 11:18 AM.
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  #229  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2008, 8:04 PM
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Here is Murano - courtesy of Mike in TO (www.urbantoronto.ca)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike in TO View Post
From Feb 26:



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  #230  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2008, 2:49 AM
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when these two are done and the bigger Buano this intersection is going to sparkle. The glass looks great in the sun, possibly some of the best residential glass we've seen in this city so far. Of coarse once Four Seasons, Aura, L Tower, Shangri-la and the Ritz all that will change.
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  #231  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2008, 2:04 PM
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The glass seems to change colour depending on the whether. It's very interesting.

If you go back in the thread, the colour of the glass changes from mirror to blue, to grey and now to brown.
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  #232  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2008, 3:46 PM
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Quote:
The glass looks great in the sun, possibly some of the best residential glass we've seen in this city so far.
best glass so far?!? It's not exactly the first time this stock quality has been used in the city (heck, not even for Lanterra ... 22 Wellesley)
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  #233  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2008, 4:29 PM
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Yeah true, but you can barely see 22 Wellesley from the next block.

This building will have a bit more visual impact, and hence the quality of the glass is a bonus.
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  #234  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2008, 4:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodlookin' View Post
It's not average becuase of the price per square foot. Two 30 storey towers will always be cheaper and easier to sell than one 60 storey tower and that doesn't matter how hot the market is, how high the average price per square foot is for, how expensive the the average price per square foot land is, and the average cost of construction per square foot.

There are many reasons to how tall but the one that stands out in this discussion is how large of a market and how much can it absord in a set period of time. If you were to double Vancouver's downtown market, you still would have Toronto's
I dont know why you have this notion the Vancouver maket is so small, the condo market in vancouver is huge, and has been growing prettymuch non stop since the early 90s. And yes usually it will be cheaper to build two 30 storey condos, but not by much, and if you only have to buy enough land to build one tower then it will most likely be cheaper to build one 60 storey tower... especially considering land prices in Vancouver. This also does not include the much more substantial returns a developer will see with a large tower like this, as like I mentioned before the suites can go for much mroe of a premium. However you seem to think that the Vancouver market can not handle projects of this magnitude, yet these high end condos have been selling out nearly as fast as the middle of the run condos, with the understandable exception of the penthouses. Projects like Shangri-La and Ritz are also selling at such high price per sq ft prices due to the amenities and services offered for these condos, nto just becuase they are in tall buildings. Like many similar projects, condos in these towers have full access to the consierge service of the 5 star hotels they are above, and they are outfitted, marketed and priced as such. If this market does eventually shrink, which I do see happening with the forboding signs of the world economy, the condos in tall buildings can still be sold for a premium by reducing the space and selling more units per floor, although this is most likely not necessary as the cost of building tall is not restrictive enough to price out developments in this city. Building a 60 storey average condo is assuredly viable in the hot Vancouver market, and the only thing holding it back is height restrictions, not economics.
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  #235  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2008, 5:48 AM
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^Here are some numbers that might help to back up your point...

Quote:
Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation: Vancouver Housing Starts Reach Near Record High in 2007.

Canadian Corporate News, January, 2008

VANCOUVER, BRITISH COLUMBIA, Jan 9, 2008 (Marketwire via COMTEX) -- Preliminary figures from Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation (CMHC) indicate that the Vancouver Census Metropolitan Area (CMA) ended 2007 with the third highest number of housing starts in 50 years. Driven by a strong apartment condominium market, the total number of housing starts reached 20,736 in 2007, an eleven per cent increase over 2006. Overall, multiple family homes accounted for close to 80 per cent of all housing starts in the Vancouver CMA.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...1/ai_n22581852
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  #236  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2008, 4:40 PM
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Murano changes colours again!!!



www.urbantoronto.ca

courtesy of Mike in TO

Last edited by caltrane74; Mar 6, 2008 at 5:01 PM.
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  #237  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2008, 8:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yyzer View Post
some potentially good news at the 'Marilyn' site...the hole shown at the centre of the excavation is new, and is presumably for the 1st crane's concrete base..

Absolute World Mississauga 167 Meters....

photo from yyzr at www.urbantoronto.ca
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  #238  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2008, 8:24 PM
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11. Niagara Hilton - Reno 177 Meters ( Niagara Falls)
12.Centennial Place 176.0 Meters (Calgary)
13. Jamison Place 170 Meters (Calgary)
14. Absolute Wold 167 Meters (Mississauga)- picture above
15. ArriVa 44 - 160 Meters (Calgary)
15 Minto Midtown 160 Meters (Toronto)
15. Uptown Residences - Yorkville 160 Meters (Toronto)
18. Success Tower 157 Meters (Toronto)
18 Toronto International Film Festival Tower 157 Meters (Toronto)
20. Residences at Hotel Georgia 156 Meters (Vancouver)
21. Absolute World 2 (151 Meters)
22. Fairmont Pacific Rim 140 Meters (Vancouver)
23. Murano South Tower 140 Meters (Toronto)
24. Epcor Tower 139.0 Meters (Edmonton)
25. Casa 138 Meters (Toronto)
26. The X Condominium 137 Meters (Toronto)
26. Montage -Cityplace 137 Meters (Toronto)
28. Telus Tower 136 Meters (Toronto)
29. Astoria on Tenth 130 Meters (Calgary)
30. Crystal Blu Condominiums 129 Meters (Toronto)
31. Capitol Residences 126 Meters (Vancouver)
31. Luna Vista 126 Meters (Toronto)
33. Patina 125 Meters (Vancouver)
34. Five West East Tower 124 Meters (Calgary)
35. W Building 121 Meters (Vancouver)
36. Le 400 Sherbrooke Ouest 120 Meters (Montreal)
36. Verve 120 Meters (Toronto)


Four Seasons Toronto ( hieght unconfirmed - has pushed the Niagara hilton out of the top 10)
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  #239  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2008, 8:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike in TO View Post
A bit fuzzy as the windows were dirty...

Maple Leaf Square

from Mike in TO

www.urbantoronto.ca

Telus Tower is in the foreground. 136 Meters
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  #240  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2008, 12:52 PM
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Buried pipes deliver concrete to Menkes office-tower site

DAN O’REILLY

correspondent

Not only is it the first major office building to be constructed in downtown Toronto in more than a decade, the $250-million 30-storey 25 York Street project by developer/builder Menkes can be considered a prototype for innovative, smooth and fast-operating concrete pumping.

That’s because there are never any ready-mix trucks lined up on the adjacent street or cluttering up the building site.

Instead, a 700-horsepower high-pressure concrete pump sits in a parking lot across the road from the site, pumping the concrete through pipes under the road to a 110-foot-radius placing boom on the building site. This set-up ensures that crane time is freed up for other trades.

“We’ve maybe increased production by 30 per cent...” says John Neilson, senior superintendent, Menkes Construction, in assessing the success of the operation.

Approximately 55,000 cubic metres of concrete will have been poured by the time the building has been substantially completed by July 2009, he says.

Neilson credits that success to concrete pump contractor Amherst Group and, in particular to pump manager Paul Turney.

Hemmed in by the Air Canada Centre on the east, a railway line immediately to the north and by busy York Street, the logistics of the tight building site “demanded that we do something different,” says Turney.

On the west side of York Street is a parking lot used as the staging area for the pump operation.

“It’s absolutely doable,” he recalls telling forming contractor Premform Limited and Menkes officials when he originally made the proposal. The developer quickly bought into the idea and was able to arrange the use of parking lot with the co-operation of the owners.

Obtaining approvals from city officials, however, to bury pipes under the street took some time. Finally those approvals were given and then one Saturday last summer, three pipes were installed under York Street by site services contractor VIPE while still keeping the road partially opened, says Turney.

Concrete is pumped through one main line, while the second line serves as a backup and the third is a spare, says Turney.

Amherst spent $800,000 purchasing the German-manufactured pump and place boom, and the peripheral equipment that runs pipelines specifically for this project, but actually used it first on the 10.4-kilometre-long 14.4 metre-diameter concrete lined tunnel constructed at the Sir Adam Beck Generating Complex in Queenston.

While an expensive investment, the efficient fast-operating system requires just one person on the pump and a second to manoeuvre the on-site boom. Only about five to six minutes are required for a truck to unload the concrete into the pump. Some support labour is required when it comes time to raise the boom to another floor, he says.

“We have a real production line going here,” says Turney, who believes the operation is saving the developer time and money. Approximately 200 to 300 metres of concrete can be poured during an eight-hour working day.
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