LA becomes largest US city to ban plastic bags

[ChrisLA]

I live in the LA metro, but within my city of Long Beach they banned them a little over a year ago. It wasn't a big deal, although it took a few times to not forget I need to bring them with me. When I we did, my wife refuse to pay 10 cents for paper bags (no plastic available at all) and we just carry it out, or put it in the basket and unload when we get to the car.

Oh btw we could also walk to the supermarkets in the neighborhood and just take our personal shopping cart, but the wife rather not. Actually when I live in Chicago I walked to the supermarket, and I hated those plastic bags. Carrying a butch of groceries those 4 blocks killed my fingers trying to hang on to all those bags. I ended up purchasing one of those personal shopping carts, which help save the hands.

I have to say I'm glad Long Beach go rid of them, nothing changed with the majority of people habits as some folks threaten they would shop in the nearby cities, it didn't happened.

[niwell]

Not entirely sure I agree with a full ban, but the amount of plastic bags you see lying around on the side of the street here decreased significantly after the city passed just a $.05 fee per bag. Admittedly some small independent stores ignore the fee but they aren't giving out a lot of bags. The provincially owned liquor stores went as far as to remove plastic bags entirely and people seem to have survived; and liquor bottles / beer cans are significantly more difficult to carry without a bag than most groceries. For those who insist most stores have reusable bags available for a few bucks.

I generally carry a tote bag around with me to bring work materials home anyway so small purchases go in there.

[jaxg8r1]

I also suppose if we just ignore that mountain of trash in the pacific ocean, comprised of plastic bags, it will just go away. That would certainly be easier than taking action...

[jd3189]

Originally Posted by Reverberation

I prefer plastic bags over paper or those crappy canvas ones. They double as small trash bags, lunch bags, doggie bags (for those who need to scoop), laundry bags on vacations, among other things. Suppose you buy ice cream and it melts, or some eggs break, or your milk leaks. Will a canvas bag contain the mess? Has it occurred to anyone that there may be a bacterial/sanitary issue with re-using bags without running them through the laundry? Will fruit still be held in the plastic bags that they give you in the produce section?

Agreed. My family reuses plastic bags as mini trash bags for the house to dispose later outside into the large black bags. It greatly decreases the chance of spillage if the larger bag rips and trash doesn't accumulate inside the house to add to odor. It sure beats wasting the plastic bags and you can also use them for other things. Spending money on expensive sprays to try to get rid of the odor is kind of uneconomical to me. I rather get something free that is able to multipurpose than to pay for something that's just going to take more cash out of my pocket.

[Rizzo]

The City of Chicago does not accept plastic bags in recycling but all the stores around me will take them back for recycling. Paper is better, but it performs badly in certain weather conditions. I think I've seen some compostable "like plastic" bags before that may work.

I'd adjust the ban to say this. All stores with zero parking may continue using plastic bags. All stores that do have parking are prohibited from using plastic bags and must pay a tax for every space they own to be used toward a recycling facility that handles these bags. Oil is oil, fair is fair...right?

[Boquillas]

Originally Posted by emathias

You've got a narrow view of the world then, buddy. Plenty of us real people need to do real work and make real contributions to the world and don't really appreciate being told that small conveniences that make life easier and have very little real impact (I've read the anecdotes and the sob stories and, frankly, they're overblown and compared to other, bigger, more important issues, are NOT where we need to be focusing efforts).

Thanks for putting me in my place. I'm sorry, I didn't know real, important people like you couldn't possibly be expected to use a reusable bag. It's got to be hard being a real working person who makes real contributions, and then they take away your plastic bags?

I wish I were a real person, who made real contributions, but I'm just a naive hippie.

[mhays]

Way to completely not understand what you read.

[J. Will]

Originally Posted by ChrisLA

I live in the LA metro, but within my city of Long Beach they banned them a little over a year ago. It wasn't a big deal, although it took a few times to not forget I need to bring them with me. When I we did, my wife refuse to pay 10 cents for paper bags (no plastic available at all) and we just carry it out, or put it in the basket and unload when we get to the car.

Oh btw we could also walk to the supermarkets in the neighborhood and just take our personal shopping cart, but the wife rather not. Actually when I live in Chicago I walked to the supermarket, and I hated those plastic bags. Carrying a butch of groceries those 4 blocks killed my fingers trying to hang on to all those bags. I ended up purchasing one of those personal shopping carts, which help save the hands.

I have to say I'm glad Long Beach go rid of them, nothing changed with the majority of people habits as some folks threaten they would shop in the nearby cities, it didn't happened.

I'm tempted to get one of those carts, but I only ever see elderly with them. Are people going to wonder what I'm doing with a "granny cart"?

[Boquillas]

Originally Posted by mhays

Way to completely not understand what you read.

What don't I understand? I should've included his whole quote, granted. Go back and read it. He posits that only people who aren't busy, wear jeans, etc. can be expected to bring reusable bags with them, but his lifestyle and schedule prohibit this, as if his lifestyle weren't a set of choices just like everybody else.

The other false scenario he's pushing is that he is expected to make sacrifices when the biggest offenders aren't. I totally agree, the car-dependent culture is a much bigger problem, but you can't just say "I won't change until they do." That's exactly what the other side is saying.

[Rizzo]

J.Will, I got one of those because I saw people using them and didn't feel so awkward.

Then the wheel broke off, rolled into the street, and got smashed by a bus. I was like f-this and now just carried groceries (in plastic bags) on my bike handles. I can do the same with paper bags so as long as they have sturdy handles.

I have reusable bags, but they aren't convenient unless you're strictly on a mission to go grocery shopping or taking a car. Most of my trips for food are daily or every couple of days. They happen at random when I'm passing by the grocery store or coming back from a bike ride. So carrying a reusable bag is not very convenient for these habits.

I hate the fact that I'm trying to justify plastic bags....but stores must offer alternatives that are just as durable.

[213]

Hearing all the same objections I heard back in the '70s when Michigan (where I grew up) introduced a dime deposit on bottles and cans: a pain for consumers, puts costs on businesses, marginal benefit, government trying to run our lives, etc., etc. Thirty-five years later the deposit is still a dime, consumers and businesses regard it a simple matter of routine, and the benefit to the state's environment has been anything but marginal.

L.A.'s plastic bag ban is a comparably good law that other large cities hopefully will emulate.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by Boquillas

What don't I understand? I should've included his whole quote, granted. Go back and read it. He posits that only people who aren't busy, wear jeans, etc. can be expected to bring reusable bags with them, but his lifestyle and schedule prohibit this, as if his lifestyle weren't a set of choices just like everybody else.

The other false scenario he's pushing is that he is expected to make sacrifices when the biggest offenders aren't. I totally agree, the car-dependent culture is a much bigger problem, but you can't just say "I won't change until they do." That's exactly what the other side is saying.

So if you're busy you're covered by his explanation.

[fflint]

Originally Posted by emathias

Plenty of us real people need to do real work and make real contributions to the world and don't really appreciate being told that small conveniences that make life easier and have very little real impact....

Are you under the impression there are no "real people" who "need to do real work and make real contributions to the world" in places that have banned plastic bags? That people stopped walking and/or buying food in cities that banned plastic bags?

Originally Posted by Hayward

I was like f-this and now just carried groceries (in plastic bags) on my bike handles. I can do the same with paper bags so as long as they have sturdy handles.

I carry paper bags on my handlebars. Never had a problem--in fact, they keep their shape better and don't ride down on my wheels like plastic bags did back when they were legal--back when I was a real person.

[all of the trash]

Someone get emathias a plastic bag to collect his tears in.

[awholeparade]

I usually carry a reusable bag when on my Xtracycle (cargo bike), and when I'm not on that bike, I'm on a bike that has removable panniers. If Denver adopted this ban, too, I couldn't care less. That said, I know my situation is not very common.

[matthew6]

What did people do before plastic bags were invented?

Whatever it was, they managed.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by pesto

Aren't these sold for about 1000 for $2 when you buy in mass? Assuming this includes a profit margin, the cost of production of 9 is almost too small to calculate.

Did you make this up or did the NAS?

Huh?

Who's talking about retail price of plastic bags... much less profit margin?

I stated a finding based on an NAS/Carnegie Mellon study about how much energy it takes to produce LDPE bags -- which related energy use by an automobile to drive 1 km to plastic bad production. Considering all energy inputs in the production, producing 9 grocery-sized LDPE bags requires the same energy consumption as driving 1 km in the average mpg vehicle on the road in 2010.

[Private Dick]

Whatever personal feelings and experiences regarding single-use plastic bags may be, we should all be able to realize that their wasteful overuse does represent economic and environmental problems which are significant. We know this to be fact.

Simply put, we are paying for the convenience of plastic bags -- and that's not referring to the included cost of the bags in retail prices or for bag fees.

[pesto]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Huh?

Who's talking about retail price of plastic bags... much less profit margin?

I stated a finding based on an NAS/Carnegie Mellon study about how much energy it takes to produce LDPE bags -- which related energy use by an automobile to drive 1 km to plastic bad production. Considering all energy inputs in the production, producing 9 grocery-sized LDPE bags requires the same energy consumption as driving 1 km in the average mpg vehicle on the road in 2010.

Sorry to pick on you, since economics doesn't seem to be your thing.

First, we're not talking retail, we're talking the manufacturer's wholesale price of selling bags to large purchasers.

The amount of energy that goes into making 1000 plastic bags MUST be less than the sales price less the profit margin. Otherwise the manufacturer would go out of business. Using my numbers above, the purchase cost of 9 bags is about $.018. Removing profit margin and costs other than energy (people, machines, marketing, etc.), let's say $.01 of energy costs.

This is substantially less than driving a car one kilometer, which I would estimate for an average car is about $.15 ($4.50/gallon; 30 kpg)

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Huh?

Who's talking about retail price of plastic bags... much less profit margin?

I stated a finding based on an NAS/Carnegie Mellon study about how much energy it takes to produce LDPE bags -- which related energy use by an automobile to drive 1 km to plastic bad production. Considering all energy inputs in the production, producing 9 grocery-sized LDPE bags requires the same energy consumption as driving 1 km in the average mpg vehicle on the road in 2010.

How much energy was used to produce the car?