How would you rank Canada's 5 most important cities?

[osmo]

Vancouver has always historically punched under it's weight economically. The city underwhelms for the scale and cope of its economy which is largely built up of housing related segments and lots of GOV jobs.

The underrated city for me is Edmonton which packs a big punch economically and has a large high end layer of science and white coats from the massive University of Alberta. Edmonton also does not have the corporate base of Calgary but yet still holds it's own GDP wise.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Sad that Montreal is so irrelevant to most anglophones these days. It's a very nice city really.

Irrelevant is much too strong a term it seems to me, although I suppose one could wonder about the relevance of most Canadian cities to Canadians outside those cities' respective spheres of influence. Hundreds of thousands of Canadians have roots/family in Montreal and hundreds of thousands (millions?) visit every year. Even if one were for some reason to dismiss Franco Montreal as "irrelevant", Anglo Montreal continues to contribute to the larger culture, both in terms of institutions (NFB, Natl Theatre School) and talents (especially in music and literature). There's also still a whack of old "Anglo" money in Montreal. Plus the food and shopping can be very good....

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

I get the feeling that many also underestimate Montreal's importance. It's either seen as an also-ran or a city to be forgotten for the benefit of western-canada. It's not as if the entirety of Montreal's financial and manufacturing base left in the 70's to be replaced with a void. Some activities have gone to be replaced by others. Others have re-emerged. The economic base has shifted to other sectors, and as of 2017, the city has never been so populous and so wealthy. Many also do not seem to know that Montreal is a major international transshipment port whose size and importance continues to grow. Its international airport is also making unprecedented strides now and is playing major catch-up. There is a sense of optimism within the private business community that hasn't been felt in decades.

What Montreal is not getting though is exposure across Anglo-Canada, for better or for worst, this city has gone off the radar in most of the ROC, remembered tacitly by Ontarian millenial exiles for its universities or its nightlife.

As for ranking the cities, who cares?

I think Montreal is also underestimated as an International organisation center. Unless I'm mistaken, Montreal has no rival in Canada in that domain. Montréal is one of the world’s eight headquarter cities for UN specialized agencies. After the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), created by UN in 1944, set up its headquarters here. One of the three UN cities in North America along with New York City and Washington.

+ Second-highest number of consulates in North America

List of International Organizations (IO) established in Greater Montréal:

Agence universitaire de la Francophonie
Airports Council International
Alternatives International
Association francophone internationale des directeurs d’établissements scolaires
Association Internationale des conférenciers professionnels de la Francophonie
CANEUS International
CANSO-ICAO Liaison Office
Civil Air Navigation Services Organisation
Comité Syndical Francophone de l’Éducation et de la Formation
Commission for Environmental Cooperation
Conseil des Festivals Jumelés
Convention on Biological Diversity
Cospas-Sarsat
Doctors of the World Canada
Fédération internationale d’Inter-crosse
Finance Alliance for Sustainable Trade
FRANCOPOL
Future Earth
Global Campaign for Climate Action
Global Sustainable Electricity Partnership
Governance Risk Compliance Security International
Inter-American Organization for Higher Education
International Academy of Law and Mental Health
International Air Transport Association
International Association of Theatre Critics
International Bureau for Children’s Rights
International Business Aviation Council
International Centre for Accessible Transportation
International Centre for the Prevention of Crime
International Civil Aviation Organization
International Council for Aerospace Training
International Council of Design
International Criminal Defence Attorneys Association
International Executive Search Federation (IESF)
The International Federation of Airline Pilots’ Associations
International Federation of Air Traffic Controllers’ Associations (IFATCA)
International Federation of Coalitions for Cultural Diversity
International Federation of Corporate Football
International Federation of Handicapped People’s Rights
International Federation of Multimedia Associations
International Forum of Public Universities
International Institute of Integral Human Sciences
International Political Science Association
International Secretariat for Water
International Social Tourism Organisation – Americas
International Union of Psychological Science
Multilateral Fund for the Implementation of the Montreal Protocol
NewCities Foundation
ORBICOM – Network of UNESCO in Communication
Public Population Project in Genomics and society (P3G)
Réseau mère-enfant de la Francophonie
Secrétariat International Francophone pour l’Evaluation Environnementale (SIFÉE)
Secrétariat International des Infirmières et Infirmiers de l’Espace Francophone
Société Internationale d’Urologie
The Transplantation Society
UNESCO Institute for Statistics
Women in Cities International
World Airlines Clubs Association
World Anti-Doping Agency
World Association of Community Radio Broadcasters
World Centre of Excellence for Destinations
World Configuration of Productivity Science
World Design Organization
World Federation of Hemophilia
World Federation of Science Journalists
World Lottery Association
World Wide Hearing Foundation International

Source


International Organizations Established in Canada Pursuant to the Foreign Missions and International Organizations Act
Last modifications: July 10, 2015


IAEA - International Atomic Energy Agency, Toronto, ON
IAEA Official Website


COL - The Commonwealth of Learning, Burnaby, BC
COL Official Website


COSPAS - SARSAT - Cospas-Sarsat Programme, Montreal, QC
COSPAS – SARSAT Official Website


EGMONT - Secretariat of the Egmont Group of Financial Intelligence Units, Toronto, ON
EGMONT Group Official Website


EU - Office of the European Union in Montréal, QC
Delegation of the EU Official Website

HKETO - Hong Kong (SAR) Economic and Trade Office, Toronto, ON
HKETO Official Website


ICAO - International Civil Aviation Organization, Montréal, QC
ICAO Official Website

IFDD - Institut de la Francophonie pour le développement durable, Québec, QC
IFDD Official Website


IICA - Inter-American Institute for Cooperation on Agriculture, Ottawa, ON
IICA Official Website

INWEH - United Nations University - International Network on Water, Environment and Health, Hamilton, ON
INWEH Official Website


IOM - International Organization for Migration, Mississauga, ON
IOM Official Website

NACEC - North American Commission for Environmental Cooperation, Montréal, QC
NACEC Official Website

NAFO - Northwest Atlantic Fisheries Organization, Dartmouth, NS
NAFO Official Website

NPAFC - North Pacific Anadromous Fish Commission, Vancouver, BC
NPAFC Official Website


PICES - North Pacific Marine Science Organization, Sidney, BC
PICES Official Website

PSC - Pacific Salmon Commission, Vancouver, BC
PSC Official Website


UIS/UNESCO - Institute for Statistics, Montréal, QC
UIS/UNESCO Official Website


UNEP - United Nations Environment Programme (Multilateral Fund for the Implementation of the Montreal Protocol Secretariat), Montréal, QC
UNEP Official Website


UNEP/SCBD - Secretariat of the Convention on Biological Diversity, Montréal, QC
UNEP/SCBD Official Website

UNHCR - United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, Ottawa, ON
UNHCR Official Website

[SaskScraper]

Originally Posted by balletomane

I also think that aside from Hamilton, relevant arguments could be made for Victoria, Saskatoon, Regina, Windsor, London or St. John's for taking tenth place.

A lot depends on all the factors we are comparing,
Toronto has all the Bank head offices as already pointed out, but if comparing world head offices for company importance than Saskatoon would be most important of the above mentioned cities.
Saskatoon would rank first if comparing regional importance for conferences and tour stops & for entertainment & sports (concerts, sports like briers, memorial & vanier cup etc) although Regina is mecca for CFL.
Saskatoon's retail and trade hub net would rank it top among these cities too.

Cities in southern Ontario with less than couple hour drive to larger metro areas may suffer same way as Hamilton does in regional importance, (ie London under Pearson airport umbrella, Windsor with DTW).

And I guess if we are adding Victoria and st. Johns into the mix (regional cities on islands with 3/4 of a million and 1/2 million people respectively) then I guess we could start considering regional cities like Kelowna and Sudbury in the mix too.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by balletomane

I agree in some aspects that Hamilton should take tenth place, but at the same time some of those cities that are in close proximity to Toronto seem to fall under the umbrella that is the Golden Horseshoe.
Maybe those secondary Golden Horseshoe cities have more national importance than I realize, but for someone who does not live in the area, those cities are to many considered suburbs of Toronto in the national framework. Basically, the GTA is Toronto and the Golden Horseshoe is Toronto's suburbs.

I also think that aside from Hamilton, relevant arguments could be made for Victoria, Saskatoon, Regina, Windsor, London or St. John's for taking tenth place.

Well, when you add all those secondary cities in the London-Barrie-Niagara area, you'd be looking at like 2.5 million or so people, basically Manitoba+Saskatchewan or Atlantic Canada. With Toronto there no city gets the dominance of Halifax or Winnipeg, but for total influence by population Hamilton is definitely ahead of St John's (the CMA has a bigger population, possibly even the city proper, than the whole of NFL) or Regina/Saskatoon (those two share Saskatchewan, while Hamilton+Niagara is basically a Saskatchewan's worth of people, and there's also Brantford and the Simcoe area).

There's just so darn many people in southern Ontario compared to the rest of the country that even if your geographic zone of influence is small you're affecting way more Canadians than regional centres elsewhere. Kitchener+Guelph+surrounding towns is nearly as many people as New Brunswick.

[Dwils01]

1. Mississauga
2. Laval
3. Surrey
4. Kanata
5. Okotoks

[speedog]

Originally Posted by Dwils01

1. Mississauga
2. Laval
3. Surrey
4. Kanata
5. Okotoks

Okotoks became a city? When?

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

What Montreal is not getting though is exposure across Anglo-Canada, for better or for worst, this city has gone off the radar in most of the ROC, remembered tacitly by Ontarian millenial exiles for its universities or its nightlife.

I don't even think this is true, in that Quebec and Montreal still get plenty of attention in Western Canada, despite being so (on the surface) disconnected culturally and some might say economically in modern times.

That said, Toronto has always been a bit lame and underwhelming as a representation of Canada. If you think of the large prime cities in the world, London in the UK, Sydney in Australia, New York in USA, Paris in France. You immediately get the distinct cultural flavor of each. It just comes across. Toronto in Canada seems like America-lite, and that seems to be what Toronto is trying to emulate most, given the constant comparisons to Chicago and New York.

It feels much more natural to say Montreal in place of Toronto in the above context, and serves to represent the uniqueness of Canadian culture, the Canadian economy, Canadian values, and how Montreal really was the universe and nexus upon which the rest of Canada rotated.

Sydney, New York, Paris, Toronto, London? It's ok.

Sydney, New York, Paris, Montreal, London? That just sounds better and more appropriate.

IMO of course.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

I think Montreal is also underestimated as an International organisation center. Unless I'm mistaken, Montreal has no rival in Canada in that domain. Montréal is one of the world’s eight headquarter cities for UN specialized agencies. After the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), created by UN in 1944, set up its headquarters here. One of the three UN cities in North America along with New York City and Washington.

+ Second-highest number of consulates in North America

List of International Organizations (IO) established in Greater Montréal:

Agence universitaire de la Francophonie
Airports Council International
Alternatives International
Association francophone internationale des directeurs d’établissements scolaires
Association Internationale des conférenciers professionnels de la Francophonie
CANEUS International
CANSO-ICAO Liaison Office
Civil Air Navigation Services Organisation
Comité Syndical Francophone de l’Éducation et de la Formation
Commission for Environmental Cooperation
Conseil des Festivals Jumelés
Convention on Biological Diversity
Cospas-Sarsat
Doctors of the World Canada
Fédération internationale d’Inter-crosse
Finance Alliance for Sustainable Trade
FRANCOPOL
Future Earth
Global Campaign for Climate Action
Global Sustainable Electricity Partnership
Governance Risk Compliance Security International
Inter-American Organization for Higher Education
International Academy of Law and Mental Health
International Air Transport Association
International Association of Theatre Critics
International Bureau for Children’s Rights
International Business Aviation Council
International Centre for Accessible Transportation
International Centre for the Prevention of Crime
International Civil Aviation Organization
International Council for Aerospace Training
International Council of Design
International Criminal Defence Attorneys Association
International Executive Search Federation (IESF)
The International Federation of Airline Pilots’ Associations
International Federation of Air Traffic Controllers’ Associations (IFATCA)
International Federation of Coalitions for Cultural Diversity
International Federation of Corporate Football
International Federation of Handicapped People’s Rights
International Federation of Multimedia Associations
International Forum of Public Universities
International Institute of Integral Human Sciences
International Political Science Association
International Secretariat for Water
International Social Tourism Organisation – Americas
International Union of Psychological Science
Multilateral Fund for the Implementation of the Montreal Protocol
NewCities Foundation
ORBICOM – Network of UNESCO in Communication
Public Population Project in Genomics and society (P3G)
Réseau mère-enfant de la Francophonie
Secrétariat International Francophone pour l’Evaluation Environnementale (SIFÉE)
Secrétariat International des Infirmières et Infirmiers de l’Espace Francophone
Société Internationale d’Urologie
The Transplantation Society
UNESCO Institute for Statistics
Women in Cities International
World Airlines Clubs Association
World Anti-Doping Agency
World Association of Community Radio Broadcasters
World Centre of Excellence for Destinations
World Configuration of Productivity Science
World Design Organization
World Federation of Hemophilia
World Federation of Science Journalists
World Lottery Association
World Wide Hearing Foundation International

Source


International Organizations Established in Canada Pursuant to the Foreign Missions and International Organizations Act
Last modifications: July 10, 2015


IAEA - International Atomic Energy Agency, Toronto, ON
IAEA Official Website


COL - The Commonwealth of Learning, Burnaby, BC
COL Official Website


COSPAS - SARSAT - Cospas-Sarsat Programme, Montreal, QC
COSPAS – SARSAT Official Website


EGMONT - Secretariat of the Egmont Group of Financial Intelligence Units, Toronto, ON
EGMONT Group Official Website


EU - Office of the European Union in Montréal, QC
Delegation of the EU Official Website

HKETO - Hong Kong (SAR) Economic and Trade Office, Toronto, ON
HKETO Official Website


ICAO - International Civil Aviation Organization, Montréal, QC
ICAO Official Website

IFDD - Institut de la Francophonie pour le développement durable, Québec, QC
IFDD Official Website


IICA - Inter-American Institute for Cooperation on Agriculture, Ottawa, ON
IICA Official Website

INWEH - United Nations University - International Network on Water, Environment and Health, Hamilton, ON
INWEH Official Website


IOM - International Organization for Migration, Mississauga, ON
IOM Official Website

NACEC - North American Commission for Environmental Cooperation, Montréal, QC
NACEC Official Website

NAFO - Northwest Atlantic Fisheries Organization, Dartmouth, NS
NAFO Official Website

NPAFC - North Pacific Anadromous Fish Commission, Vancouver, BC
NPAFC Official Website


PICES - North Pacific Marine Science Organization, Sidney, BC
PICES Official Website

PSC - Pacific Salmon Commission, Vancouver, BC
PSC Official Website


UIS/UNESCO - Institute for Statistics, Montréal, QC
UIS/UNESCO Official Website


UNEP - United Nations Environment Programme (Multilateral Fund for the Implementation of the Montreal Protocol Secretariat), Montréal, QC
UNEP Official Website


UNEP/SCBD - Secretariat of the Convention on Biological Diversity, Montréal, QC
UNEP/SCBD Official Website

UNHCR - United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, Ottawa, ON
UNHCR Official Website

Yeah, the UN has offices in Montreal which attracts international organizations. Doesn't really mean much. I'm quite certain Toronto has a few more consulates than Montreal.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by geotag277

I don't even think this is true, in that Quebec and Montreal still get plenty of attention in Western Canada, despite being so (on the surface) disconnected culturally and some might say economically in modern times.

That said, Toronto has always been a bit lame and underwhelming as a representation of Canada. If you think of the large prime cities in the world, London in the UK, Sydney in Australia, New York in USA, Paris in France. You immediately get the distinct cultural flavor of each. It just comes across. Toronto in Canada seems like America-lite, and that seems to be what Toronto is trying to emulate most, given the constant comparisons to Chicago and New York.

It feels much more natural to say Montreal in place of Toronto in the above context, and serves to represent the uniqueness of Canadian culture, the Canadian economy, Canadian values, and how Montreal really was the universe and nexus upon which the rest of Canada rotated.

Sydney, New York, Paris, Toronto, London? It's ok.

Sydney, New York, Paris, Montreal, London? That just sounds better and more appropriate.

IMO of course.

Constant comparison to New York or Chicago? You mean here or ordinary life? I've never heard anyone bring up Chicago in ordinary life. New York for sure. Who cares. It's an absolutely ridiculous assertion that Toronto wants to be American because it strives to be a major world city with the closest example being New York. Aside from that, what exactly separates Toronto from those other cities? Need more info.

Toronto represents tolerance and acceptance which is a far cry from the blind patriotism and the America way south of the border. That is as powerfully Canadian as you will find as we move forward as a nation. Montreal, on the other hand, is more representative of our historic colonial values which is much more American in kind.

[speedog]

Who knew that this thread would come down to a pissing match between the proponents of two cities? Such a silly little debate that has taken over this thread, congratulations kids.

[WhipperSnapper]

going to dislocate your shoulder with all the patting yourself on the back you do.

[someone123]

Analogies to countries like France don't work for Canada. This country is more decentralized, economically and socially, like, say, Switzerland. There is no Canadian Paris and there never has been one.

Another factor at play when it comes to Toronto is that most growth in the major cities these days comes from other countries, not from other parts of Canada. Many Torontonians feel more of a personal connection to another country than they do to other Canadian regions. They don't seem to be very interested national culture and travel as such. Vancouver is similar.

This is not as true in cities like Ottawa, Montreal, or Halifax. People in Ottawa are understandably usually more gung ho on national culture, even sometimes when it is contrived. Montreal is strongly connected to the rest of Quebec at least, if not all of Canada. People in Halifax rightly or wrongly think of it as a centre for all things Atlantic and eat up regional culture. Atlantic Canada has its own set of celebrities that a lot of people in other regions have barely heard of. Only a few get exported to the rest of Canada.

[speedog]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

going to dislocate your shoulder with all the patting yourself on the back you do.

Funny how you're able to point the finger so well but am unable to recognize when you're guilty of what you're so quick to admonish in others, true to form as always you are. Continue on.

[OutOfTowner]

Canada does not have and will never have an equivalent to Tokyo, New York, Los Angeles, London, Paris, Berlin, etc. Not even close and not going to happen.

We're a middle power country with a tiny population and our proximity to the U.S. precludes the possibility of us having even regional importance.

Get over it. There's nothing wrong with this. There are plenty of niche opportunities and Canadian cities can rush in to fill them by playing to their strengths.

[isaidso]

1. Toronto
2. Montreal
3. Vancouver
4. Calgary
5. Ottawa

If I went further:

6. Edmonton
7. Halifax
8. Winnipeg
9. Quebec City
10. Hamilton

[Laceoflight]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

I'm quite certain Toronto has a few more consulates than Montreal.

Just for info, your intuition is right.
As far as foreign representations in our cities go, the official numbers look more like that :

1. 135 - OTTAWA (incl. 131 ambassies and high commissions)
2. 105 - TORONTO (incl. Brampton, Markham, Mississauga, Newmarket, North York, Richmond Hill and Vaughan)
3. 84 - MONTRÉAL (incl. Laval and Westmount)
4. 82 - VANCOUVER (incl. Burnaby, New Westminster, North Vancouver, Port Moody, Richmond and Surrey)
5. 36 - CALGARY
6. 28 - HALIFAX
7. 26 - EDMONTON
8. 25 - WINNIPEG
9. 24 - QUÉBEC
10. 14 - ST. JOHN'S
11. 10 - REGINA
12. ...

Source : Affaires Mondiales Canada

Where I don't agree with you is when you are saying that the strong presence of UN and other International Organisations in Monteal isn't important. It pushes Montreal on the international scene (international conventions, development of high value economic niches, etc.) For example, the international organisations of the metro area are responsible for 1/5 of the province's economic growth, in domains such as aerospace, culture, communications, sciences, environment, design, etc. They generate at least 300 M$ of economic spinoffs every year. Maybe it's not THE world's best sitution, but it certainly represents what Montreal has the best to offer to the world.

[OutOfTowner]

Double post

[OutOfTowner]

Originally Posted by someone123

Analogies to countries like France don't work for Canada. This country is more decentralized, economically and socially, like, say, Switzerland. There is no Canadian Paris and there never has been one.

Another factor at play when it comes to Toronto is that most growth in the major cities these days comes from other countries, not from other parts of Canada. Many Torontonians feel more of a personal connection to another country than they do to other Canadian regions. They don't seem to be very interested national culture and travel as such. Vancouver is similar.

This is not as true in cities like Ottawa, Montreal, or Halifax. People in Ottawa are understandably usually more gung ho on national culture, even sometimes when it is contrived. Montreal is strongly connected to the rest of Quebec at least, if not all of Canada. People in Halifax rightly or wrongly think of it as a centre for all things Atlantic and eat up regional culture. Atlantic Canada has its own set of celebrities that a lot of people in other regions have barely heard of. Only a few get exported to the rest of Canada.

This line of thinking - Toronto has many immigrants, nobody else has any. Torontonians are busy engaging with the rest of the world while the rest of us are sitting around strumming our banjos - I don't buy it!

[someone123]

Originally Posted by OutOfTowner

This line of thinking - Toronto has many immigrants, nobody else has any. Torontonians are busy engaging with the rest of the world while the rest of us are sitting around strumming our banjos - I don't buy it!

Some people have argued this but it's not what I was getting at. My argument is simply that cross-Canada cultural ties aren't as strong as they would be if urban growth in Canada were driven more by internal migration and less by immigration.