Winnipeg | Upper Fort Garry Provincial Park | 130 Main St.

[ILYR]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Do they own the land already? Now I'm confused.

I think everyone is confused on this project, particularly city council!

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Do they own the land already? Now I'm confused.

Pardon me, no you're correct, they don't own the land yet.
What I should have said is that they have already invested thousands of dollars in the parcel and they can't afford to wait for the Friends to get their act together.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/loc...-4715873c.html

It wasn't a deadline that council just plucked out of the sky.

[c vist]

The reality is that the City approved the land purchase to Crystal after an RFP process. The lands that were identified in the RFP were not the same size, this was discovered during the purchaser agreement process. An archaeological dig was used to identify the correct property size. The smaller land purchase agreement had to go back to the Standing Policy Committee on Downtown Development, because the purchase agreement price was reduced because the land was smaller.

All of this is common knowledge to the Councillors who sit on the Committee ... what is also common knowledge is the fact that the land being purchased sits outside of the original Fort footprint. The "Friends" have been clear that the land they want includes the Crystal site, and have not backed down on this, even if the land costs them 13 million instead of nothing.

It seems it is time to start spreading the "truths" about this deal around the City, because Gord Sinclair has been spreading mistruths about the development deal and the lands that the apartment would sit upon.

This purchase agreement is a good example of Council and City Administration not being at the same table, miscommunicating and collectively not really caring about the role they have in shaping our City. I'm not very proud of our City right now!

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by c vist

The "Friends" have been clear that the land they want includes the Crystal site, and have not backed down on this, even if the land costs them 13 million instead of nothing.

Surely there must be more to the story than that. Have the "Friends" actually addressed this exact issue publicly?

I thought there was also some issue about whether Crystal would build on the smaller site. Has this been resolved? Is it confirmed that Crystal still wants to go ahead with the project?

[c vist]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Surely there must be more to the story than that. Have the "Friends" actually addressed this exact issue publicly?

I thought there was also some issue about whether Crystal would build on the smaller site. Has this been resolved? Is it confirmed that Crystal still wants to go ahead with the project?

The smaller Crystal site was renegotiated as part of the approved land purchase agreement ... Crystal has been at the table with the money all along.

As for the "friends" ... they are being stubborn and hoping the public will rally behind Sinclair, who is really their spokesperson. Not really impartial journalism, is it?

[trueviking]

^it amazes me that the developer hasnt just bailed....he must be hoping for free land somewhere else, or a tax break on other properties elsewhere....there needs to be a proponent for the developer too...as i understand it, the proposal is not simply an apartment tower, but of other public functions at ground level that will bring activity to the site, including a redeveloped park space celebrating the fort.....that word has to be spread somehow....it is being dismissed as just an apartment building.

i dropped this line to gordo:


upper fort gordon

"sacred"
"world class"

your argument is weakened if you lose your perspective.

insinuating greed on the developer's part is irresponsible.

my winnipeg would be "richer" with 400 new downtown residents and a tasteful, appropriately scaled monument to our city's lost history.....i hope the "friends" come to realize this before their dream of an oversized cartoon wasteland of kitsch, faux history becomes a reality.

compromise is the best solution...

[Spocket]

^Bravo and well said !

[thegreattait]

I think the “Friends” have a noble cause and their efforts should be applauded, however their vision is similar to the city of Winnipeg planners, which only consider a site for a single use facility taking up an entire block. The reason the forks works is because of its mixed use. Think of walkways, skating, cultural entertainment, retail, market area, Hotel, Theatre, commercial business, government offices, and historic plaques and displays.

“The medium is the message” ~Marshall McLuhan

The Forks represents a coming together of different people for the purpose of trade, and building relationship. This is both true of when the first nations used the land, followed by the fur traders, the rail yards/via and finally as the prominent public mixed use space it has become today.

Upper fort Garry represented a secure place for the first citizens of Winnipeg to live and conduct business, while building the foundation of what was to become “One Great City”. A mixed use site for people, commerce, heritage and culture, represents Winnipeg, as it was intended to be. While a single use museum represents the faulty logic that has turned Winnipeg from a bustling urban environment, into a fragmented, and vision lacking collection of projects located in the same geographic area.

The friends surely have an ambitious goal and let’s say for a minute they can raise the additional funds. I believe in fact given more time they could since these are some of the most resourceful, entrepreneurial and well connected individuals between Toronto and Vancouver (Yes I skipped Calgary and Edmonton, as their business elite there have nothing on the who’s who of the Winnipeg business community). That project would still be inferior to one which has all of the above mentioned mixed uses, and therefore even though feasible, their particular vision should not be built, when compared to that of Crystal developers, or even better yet a Crytal plan with the funds of the "Friends" directed at the remaining site. Think of the world class facility this would create, when a major project in Winnipeg could have an abundance of funds flowing into it, as oppose to the cash strapped scaled down versions of everything that takes place in Winnipeg.

Think of it in another way, people do not liked to have culture and history forced upon them, instead it is better that they live the history that surrounds them and incorporate those memories and lessons into our everyday lives. How many of the families living in that building will be able to teach their children first hand the founding history of Winnipeg, as they go about their daily lives. Think of the people who go to use the services or shop at whatever may be on the ground level of this mixed use facility, for they would learn about the history as they pass through the museum centre to arrive at their destination. Now think about when you have individuals who live there, customers who shop their and tourists there for that specific purpose of history, all bumping into each other, and possibly sharing ideas and thoughts about the environment of history that surrounds them. Now that’s a place I would like to be.

[hexrae]

Interesting discussion on CJOB about the Fort. I caught some of the Gord Steeves interview where he basically said people need to get facts straight.

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by hexrae

Interesting discussion on CJOB about the Fort. I caught some of the Gord Steeves interview where he basically said people need to get facts straight.

Which facts? Apparently, there are currently several versions of these so-called "facts" in circulation .

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by hexrae

Interesting discussion on CJOB about the Fort. I caught some of the Gord Steeves interview where he basically said people need to get facts straight.

I was listening at work. It was a pretty mixed response. My favourite caller by far was the 70 something year old guy who said "build the damn skyscraper".

I hope I can be as cool when i'm old.

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

I was listening at work. It was a pretty mixed response. My favourite caller by far was the 70 something year old guy who said "build the damn skyscraper".

I hope I can be as cool when i'm old.

No doubt. A 70 year old person from Winnipeg in favor of a compromised progressive approach to this situation is a rarity in Winnipeg; don't let him go!

[thegreattait]

Actually I find a lot of the old people 70+ are usually in favour of high rise construction. Think of this most of them used to live in this city when it had a dense urban environment, and they were the ones that enjoyed the live street environments walking between the bay and eaton's along portage.

It was their children the baby boomers who group up with cars and suburbia, that want a house in the burbs, and have no use for mass transit.

The Seniors of this city have a recolection and a passion of what made this city great. Thanks to them most of the new non-government construction in this city lately has been multi-use multi level seniors complexes.

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by thegreattait

Actually I find a lot of the old people 70+ are usually in favour of high rise construction. Think of this most of them used to live in this city when it had a dense urban environment, and they were the ones that enjoyed the live street environments walking between the bay and eaton's along portage.

It was their children the baby boomers who group up with cars and suburbia, that want a house in the burbs, and have no use for mass transit.

The Seniors of this city have a recolection and a passion of what made this city great. Thanks to them most of the new non-government construction in this city lately has been multi-use multi level seniors complexes.

I think you have some interesting reasons for why the elderly might like urbanity, but I believe it has more to do with convenience than anything else. A lot of these people can't drive anymore and have limited physical mobility at best.

It's easy to see why older people might enjoy living in an apartment highrise with other seniors.

[Keng]

I get a big kick out of this being called "world class". I'm a proponent for saving our heritage, but would like to see both projects built on site, a lesser version of the fort. But world class, come on... The Human Rights Museum is world class...

[hexrae]

Originally Posted by Greco Roman

Which facts? Apparently, there are currently several versions of these so-called "facts" in circulation .

I know. Too many callers were for the Fort plans since they didn't want to see it removed or become part of somebody's atrium. Host Geoff Currier did a good job informing them that the Fort site didn't need to be bothered.

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

I was listening at work. It was a pretty mixed response. My favourite caller by far was the 70 something year old guy who said "build the damn skyscraper".

I hope I can be as cool when i'm old.

That caller surprised me as well, although he sounded almost sarcastic.

[hexrae]

More radio talk on CJOB again.

I just tuned in and Hartley Richardson and David Asper were on. Not sure yet, but I heard something about a 1 million dollar donation

[Archiseek]

David Asper of the Asper Family Foundation has come to the table with 500-thousand dollars.
The Richardson Family also contributed half-a-million dollars.

[1ajs]

thats all?

[c vist]

CJOB spent the entire morning broadcasting the "friends" fundraising efforts, probably a paid advertising deal. It is too bad that they focused their efforts on raising money to prevent a development that they say would destroy any attempt at addressing and memorializing our history. Looks like it is time to pull at the heart strings of the more mature Winnipeg population and waste their money raised on needless land purchases. If you remember, the land could have been theirs for free. It was funny, I heard from one of them that they were close to a purchase agreement with the Curling Club ... funny because I know the board of the Club has refused a property sale to them under any conditions.

Crystal has really been screwed in this process and I hope they seek some bloody revenge ... okay, maybe just some monetary revenge!