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  #101  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2014, 12:34 AM
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Wow. That was probably the most misleading thing I've ever seen, and I follow a blog that regularly posts examples of religious leaders being deliberately misleading.

They expect us to believe that a middle-aged corner store clerk's reaction to a bunch of doe-eyed teens buying $54 worth of alcohol is going to be, "Hahaha, I'm not gonna check for ID! Go have fun!!"
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  #102  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2015, 4:56 PM
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Beer Store spins the bottle on damage control: Cohn

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With its quasi-monopoly quaking, The Beer Store is a year late and many millions of dollars short. Ontario shouldn’t buy what it’s selling.
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With its monopolistic brew falling flat, the foreign-owned Beer Store is rebranding — belatedly.


Don’t buy it.


Stung by negative publicity, spooked by political static, the big brewers behind Ontario’s retail quasi-monopoly have ditched their old playbook in favour of a classic Hail Mary pass: They are inviting craft brewers to team up for a more localized ownership structure now controlled by multinational corporations from abroad.


Too little, too lame, too late.


As more Ontarians realize that The Beer Store isn’t what they thought it was — not a creaky government-owned monopoly, but a globalized cartel — the big brewers are increasingly desperate to salvage their sweetheart deal in a captive market unlike any other. The sudden damage control is motivated by fears of consumer rebellion and a looming government clampdown.


This week, big beer took a small step to woo craft brewers by offering a deathbed reconciliation: If you can’t beat them, ask them to join you.
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So far, craft brewers aren’t falling for it. Neither should beer drinkers, nor any Ontarians unsettled by the flow of windfall profits to foreign multinationals.
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The Beer Store is a deeply flawed anachronism — no matter how much money it spends on full-page ads, how many scare stories it peddles in TV commercials on underage drinking, or how often it recalibrates those unpersuasive press lines. In an opaque system, optics aren’t enough.
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  #103  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2015, 5:02 PM
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I'm still not sure whether the best approach is to open up beer sales, to soak the Beer Store for the privilege of their monopoly (say 5% - 10% of total sales value), or some combination of the two. I'll be interested to see what the Province comes up with (in the 2015 budget?). Meanwhile, I'll continue to purchase my beer at the LCBO (which I hope will soon start selling 12 packs).
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  #104  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2015, 5:02 PM
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The Glob also has a negative article on the subject:

Beer Store’s ‘new era’ keeps an archaic system alive

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For its part, Ontario’s beer monopoly is hailing a “new era” in beer sales in the province.

“The beer store is truly becoming Ontario-owned,” said Jan Craps, president of Labatt Breweries Canada, a subsidiary of Anheuser-Busch InBev NV, the world’s largest brewer.

That’s a stretch.

Small Ontario-based breweries will get an opportunity to buy a preferred share at a “nominal” price of $100 ($1,000 for brewers who make more than five million litres of beer a year). Ownership of the shares means brewers can go to annual meetings, receive financial statements and nominate up to three of the Beer Store’s 15 directors.

“At first read, this seems like a red herring,” argued Steve Beauchesne, CEO and co-founder of Beau’s All Natural Brewing Co. of Vankleek Hill, Ont. “Brewers have been asking for access into the ownership, and this is kind of a nice way to take that [demand] away without offering real ownership.”

Ontario’s bizarre regulatory regime gives three foreign multinationals control of the main beer distribution channel. Ownership and control will stay in the hands of AB InBev, Molson Coors and Sapporo, which together own 100 per cent of the Beer Store’s common shares.

“This is not ownership. These are preferred shares, which is a quasi-form of ownership,” Mr. Beauchesne pointed out. “That’s really no different than us giving them a loan, with very limited rights.”
In the comments section, some wit referred this initiative as "lipstick on a pig". I concur whole-heartedly.

Words cannot adequately convey my deep-seated hatred of the Beer Store. I buy my beer at the LCBO and treat the Beer Store as a bottle depot. I loathe everything about the place.
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  #105  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2015, 5:04 PM
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My action plan for booze reform:
1) Allow beer to be sold in corner stores, supermarkets, and gas stations
2) Start selling beer in all sizes at the LCBO
3) Wine & spirits should be retained as an LCBO monopoly at least for now to protect government cash flow, with an eye to liberalizing wine sales too when the province's fiscal climate improve
4) Lower drinking age to 18, to help stem losses to Quebec & increase market size. Also deals with the injustice of denying adults who can vote, join the army, and get married, the right to buy booze solely because of their age
5) Look at loosening the open container laws
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  #106  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2015, 5:08 PM
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It seems pretty clear that the current Beer Store model is doomed. My only hesitation about LCBOs selling 24s is that I doubt that any of them are built to be able to carry a decent selection at that size.
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  #107  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2015, 5:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
My action plan for booze reform:
1) Allow beer to be sold in corner stores, supermarkets, and gas stations
2) Start selling beer in all sizes at the LCBO
3) Wine & spirits should be retained as an LCBO monopoly at least for now to protect government cash flow, with an eye to liberalizing wine sales too when the province's fiscal climate improve
4) Lower drinking age to 18, to help stem losses to Quebec & increase market size. Also deals with the injustice of denying adults who can vote, join the army, and get married, the right to buy booze solely because of their age
5) Look at loosening the open container laws
My point by point rebuttal: yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes.
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  #108  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2015, 5:18 PM
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Quoted for truth:
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Walking into the Beer Store reminds me of East Germany
http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspa...e_changes.html
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  #109  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2015, 5:22 PM
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How The Beer Store lobby wins friends and influences politicians: Cohn

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The privately-owned Beer Store is a case study in high-powered lobbying in Ontario, the Wild West of political fundraising.
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“The beer industry in Canada, and particularly in Ontario, is one of the most successful, rewarding businesses anywhere in the world,” he [Jan Westcott, CEO of Spirits Canada] said in an interview. “It’s a very highly profitable business.”


He says the big brewers earn an impressive 50-per-cent gross margin here (the difference between revenues and direct costs incurred), thanks in large part to The Beer Store’s minimal investments in retailing and low distribution costs. The continuing strong cash flow finances a powerful lobbying effort.
Always remember this:
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The Beer Store is 49-per-cent owned by Labatt Brewing Company Ltd., a subsidiary of Anheuser-Busch InBev of Belgium. Another 49-per-cent stake is held by Molson Coors Canada, controlled by Molson Coors Brewing Co., incorporated in Delaware and headquartered in Colorado (it also keeps corporate offices in Montreal). Japanese-owned Sleeman holds the remainder.
Quote:
Puzzled by the inertia? The Beer Store’s longevity defies logic — until you factor in the lobbying. And the donating.
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"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."-President Lyndon B. Johnson Donald Trump is a poor man's idea of a rich man, a weak man's idea of a strong man, and a stupid man's idea of a smart man. Am I an Asseau?
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  #110  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2015, 5:46 PM
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That Cohn article also touches on an aspect of the Beer Store monopoly that intrigues me. It apparently is run on a non-profit basis (although the numbers are not published), but the three controlling beer firms set the wholesale price of beer to the Beer Store. Normally, one would expect this to mean that the wholesale prices are jacked as high as possible, to maximize the producers' profits. And yet, it is claimed that Ontario's beer prices are the lowest in Canada (something I don't think that many people believe). Since I'm not much concerned by the retail price of beer, it leads me to wonder whether beer prices would even go up if the Province started charging the Beer Store a new royalty on sales.
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  #111  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2015, 4:28 PM
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From my personal experience, the Beer Store is actually kinda shitty at carding. I'm 21, but I look a few years younger than I actually am (if I wore the right clothes I could probably travel with a group of high schoolers without it looking weird!), so I should always be carded. LCBO is the only place that has always, always, always consistently asked me for ID. At the Beer Store, I've only been carded maybe two-thirds of the time. Ditto with bars and restaurants.
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  #112  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2015, 6:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
My action plan for booze reform:
1) Allow beer to be sold in corner stores, supermarkets, and gas stations
2) Start selling beer in all sizes at the LCBO
3) Wine & spirits should be retained as an LCBO monopoly at least for now to protect government cash flow, with an eye to liberalizing wine sales too when the province's fiscal climate improve
4) Lower drinking age to 18, to help stem losses to Quebec & increase market size. Also deals with the injustice of denying adults who can vote, join the army, and get married, the right to buy booze solely because of their age
5) Look at loosening the open container laws
1) absolutely! Do it today!
2) will be unnecessary if #1 is achieved
3) Agreed on keeping LCBO. Perhaps an extension of the wine boutique in grocery stores concept will add enough other options. Full-scale decentralization of wine/spirits sales is probably not necessary (*more on this below)
4) Probably unnecessary. I don't think losses to Quebec are material on a provincial basis and the increased market size is marginal. An 18 yr old who really wants to get his/her hands on booze now probably already has the means to do it. Keeping it at 19 also keeps (legal) booze well out of the high schools and graduated driver programs.
5) There are lots of things that could be done there that would negligibly affect society as a whole.

As for the LCBO - I, for one, appreciate what they do from a selection and price standpoint. Privatized liquor or wine stores would not be able to match the selection of products offered at the price. Yes, your high sales volume stuff would reduce in price, but the prices would probably rise on the less or moderately popular products. The SAQ in Quebec is nowhere close to the LCBO in product offering options and price.
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  #113  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2015, 6:43 PM
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2) will be unnecessary if #1 is achieved
The value of selling beer at the LCBO in normal sizes is convenience--I can get wine and beer in the same shopping trip. That should be done regardless of whether beer is liberalized.

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Originally Posted by Horus View Post
4) Probably unnecessary. I don't think losses to Quebec are material on a provincial basis and the increased market size is marginal. An 18 yr old who really wants to get his/her hands on booze now probably already has the means to do it. Keeping it at 19 also keeps (legal) booze well out of the high schools and graduated driver programs.
Fun fact: after prohibition the drinking age was 21 and as part of the thaw in the liquor laws in the 1960s/1970s, it was lowered to 18. People then freaked out about high schoolers getting booze (the high school leaving age was 19 at the time because of Grade 13) so it was raised to 19. But then when the fifth year of high school was deleted, by the original logic it should have gone back down to 18.

It's a justice issue to me. To me, any age higher than 18 is immoral. You're an adult at 18, that's when you can vote, can own property, can get married, authorize surgery for yourself, join the army. Denying a segment of the adult population something solely because of age is ageist discrimination. In fact, it may not even be constitutional to have a drinking age higher than 18 for this reason.
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  #114  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2015, 6:53 PM
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My point by point rebuttal: yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes.
I agree with all those positions, although the drinking age decrease may be a difficult one to get overall support on (the last time it was discussed - albeit briefly - there was more push to raise it back to 21).

Also municipalities should be given the right to set closing time (and hours of service) at any time they want, with the current rules a "default" option if no municipal by-law is in effect. So if a municipality wanted to allow 24 hour alcohol sales, they would be entitled to such if they passed such a by-law. On the flip side, if a municipality wanted to go completely dry, or prohibit alcohol sales on certain days (such as on some holidays), they would have that option as well.
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  #115  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2015, 8:00 PM
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
From my personal experience, the Beer Store is actually kinda shitty at carding. I'm 21, but I look a few years younger than I actually am (if I wore the right clothes I could probably travel with a group of high schoolers without it looking weird!), so I should always be carded. LCBO is the only place that has always, always, always consistently asked me for ID. At the Beer Store, I've only been carded maybe two-thirds of the time. Ditto with bars and restaurants.
In Kingston, I've found the LCBO IDs me about 50% of the time, and when I used to go to The Beer Store more regularly, they IDed me maybe 30% of the time. However, last summer I went to one where I made my order, the cashier took my money, and then asked for ID. It was the first time I had forgotten to bring my drivers license to that particular Beer Store, and so for the first time in my adult life I was denied an alcohol purchase. Fortunately the cashier gave me the money back, but I thought they were required to ask for ID before the transaction. This was at the location on Princess near University Ave, which often runs out of a lot of stock and is probably the worst of the worst Beer Stores.

All but one Beer Store in Kingston are the small in-and-out style with the order counter, and at least one still has the 90s logo. The exception is a new store that opened last year, the first new Beer Store in the city in at least 25 years.

I've virtually stopped spending money there. Like for ME, it's a bottle depot to me now, though I will sometimes buy a single tallboy can if I've made a bottle return.
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  #116  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2015, 3:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
The value of selling beer at the LCBO in normal sizes is convenience--I can get wine and beer in the same shopping trip. That should be done regardless of whether beer is liberalized.
I agree with you on the convenience factor, but I'd hate to see the LCBO taking up valuable retail space to stock 24s of Budweiser when they could continue to provide a wider variety of products. Chances are, if beer were widely available at convenience stores and gas stations, there's probably another outlet easily accessible to you on your LCBO trip or in conjunction with other shopping excursions (i.e. when you buy your groceries). Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see the LCBO be able to sell more than just six-packs, but I also don't want to see an aisle dedicated to Coors Light just because it's popular.
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  #117  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2015, 12:26 AM
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Thunder Bay is getting a large, new concept two-storey LCBO, to replace what is currently one of the busiest stores in the province. This city, with the highest rate of alcohol use in the province, has the busiest beer and liquor stores in the province as well, and two large distribution centres to support both chains. If both floors are going to be retail then it will likely have enough room, as the footprint is already larger than the LCBO it's replacing, and only slightly smaller than the city's main LCBO which is the province's largest (or one of them, if it has been surpassed since it opened in 2006).
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  #118  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2015, 1:10 AM
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I was in Ottawa today, and of course, I went across to Gatineau and bought some beer. There's a neat store I found today on Rue Eddy that has a whole section devoted to Quebec craft beer. We need stores like that in Ontario. I didn't buy any craft brews today as I hadn't heard of any of them, but picked up 12 Sleeman and 6 Molson Export, all for $29 including deposit. Another week I'll grab a few craft brews - anyone have any suggestions?

As I'll be in Ottawa frequently over the next few weeks, I'll be doing all my beer shopping in Quebec for the next month. All money the Beer Store and Kathleen Wynne won't be getting from me.
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  #119  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2015, 4:33 PM
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Originally Posted by manny_santos View Post
I was in Ottawa today, and of course, I went across to Gatineau and bought some beer. There's a neat store I found today on Rue Eddy that has a whole section devoted to Quebec craft beer. We need stores like that in Ontario. I didn't buy any craft brews today as I hadn't heard of any of them, but picked up 12 Sleeman and 6 Molson Export, all for $29 including deposit. Another week I'll grab a few craft brews - anyone have any suggestions?

As I'll be in Ottawa frequently over the next few weeks, I'll be doing all my beer shopping in Quebec for the next month. All money the Beer Store and Kathleen Wynne won't be getting from me.
This is what makes alcohol reform urgent for the eastern part of the province, the Quebec factor.
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  #120  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2015, 4:35 PM
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Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
I agree with all those positions, although the drinking age decrease may be a difficult one to get overall support on (the last time it was discussed - albeit briefly - there was more push to raise it back to 21).

Also municipalities should be given the right to set closing time (and hours of service) at any time they want, with the current rules a "default" option if no municipal by-law is in effect. So if a municipality wanted to allow 24 hour alcohol sales, they would be entitled to such if they passed such a by-law. On the flip side, if a municipality wanted to go completely dry, or prohibit alcohol sales on certain days (such as on some holidays), they would have that option as well.
I agree that we're not likely to see the drinking age drop to 18 at any point soon, but I think it's even less likely it will be raised. At 19, most undergraduate university students are legal (basically everyone beyond 1st year more or less), but at 21 most would not be. This would absolutely destroy the bar & nightlife industry in university towns like K-W, Guelph, and Kingston. Not to mention make a big hit on the LCBO's profits too. 19-20 year olds probably consume more alcohol than any other age group.

With lowering the drinking age, universities have lobbied the government for dropping to 18 in the past, MADD lobbies against.

As for your municipal autonomy idea, I like it. Right now only Toronto has the flexibility to adjust its liquor laws, all municipalities should have this privilege.
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