Emerson, Manitoba border crossings

[speedog]

22 people crossed into Canada at Emerson, Manitoba between Saturday night and Sunday morning - one has to wonder how much the numbers will increase as the weather gets better. Tough situation for the locals there as well, a burden they shouldn't have to shoulder and hopefully the GoC steps up with a better plan.

What of other border areas where it's relatively easy to walk across the border into a populated area - is the lower mainland in B.C. at risk for the same thing? Quebec and New Brunswick? That's not to say it isn't easy to cross the border in Alberta or Saskatchewan but most of the border in those two provinces is quite remote? Is it even happening elsewhere?

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by speedog

22 people crossed into Canada at Emerson, Manitoba between Saturday night and Sunday morning - one has to wonder how much the numbers will increase as the weather gets better. Tough situation for the locals there as well, a burden they shouldn't have to shoulder and hopefully the GoC steps up with a better plan.

What of other border areas where it's relatively easy to walk across the border into a populated area - is the lower mainland in B.C. at risk for the same thing? Quebec and New Brunswick? That's not to say it isn't easy to cross the border in Alberta or Saskatchewan but most of the border in those two provinces is quite remote? Is it even happening elsewhere?

The border along Quebec has seen a lot of crossings as well. Most likely they are choosing those areas because major cities aren't far away. The border with Ontario is virtually all water so that province won't be affected, and I think the BC border has more security on it (due to drug issues).

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

The border along Quebec has seen a lot of crossings as well. Most likely they are choosing those areas because major cities aren't far away. The border with Ontario is virtually all water so that province won't be affected, and I think the BC border has more security on it (due to drug issues).

There is the tiny spot south of Thunder Bay where the Ontario-US border runs over land.. and in the east, the St. Lawrence isn't that wide or turbulent so illegal boat crossings could become a thing. Heck, there quite a few points in the Thousand Islands area where, using the islands as rest points, most people would be capable of swimming across.

[SteelTown]

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/09...n_8192724.html

[Pinus]

I think 2017 will finally be the year where many Canadian's and their "let's welcome everyone into our country because it's the right thing to do" mentality may come to an end. At the very least their patience will be pushed to the limits.

These are not refugees, folks. These are people arriving from a first world country because the leader of said country says he doesn't like them and they shouldn't be there; that does not equate to persecution. Big difference between the two. There is no such thing as refugees from the United States.

[libtard]

Originally Posted by Pinus

These are not refugees, folks. These are people arriving from a first world country because the leader of said country says he doesn't like them and they shouldn't be there; that does not equate to persecution. Big difference between the two. There is no such thing as refugees from the United States.

I want to say this on facebook... I really do. But I feel as though I'll be lambasted

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by libtard

I want to say this on facebook... I really do. But I feel as though I'll be lambasted

No, you'd get lambasted on Facebook because this is basically a perfectly flawed premise.

The people who are coming to Canada's border are not Americans or people with a legal right to be in the United States that cannot be taken away.

They are by and large people from dangerous countries (often extremely so) who, if they cannot remain in the U.S., will have to go back to those countries and face death or persecution or both.

[ssiguy]

^ Exactly right..........these are NOT refugees but simply queue-jumpers, they are braking every law in the book and they damn well know it. This is what infuriates people about our refugee system when we get bogus refugees which Ottawa will still accept to be nice.

These people 100% know that they are breaking the coutry's immigration/refugee laws and don't give a damn. IOW, their first act in Canada is to break the law. I say put them up for one night and then give them a one-way bus ticket back to Minneapolis. It is illegal for someone to cross at a border crossing from the USA to Canada or vice-versa looking for refugee status. These people clearly know this which is why they deliberately don't cross at a border crossing but rather in the middle of no where.

If this is allowed then we will get refugee claims from thousands in the US, even if born there, as people cross at a non-authorized entry level. They will be able to apply for refugee status and hence get free medical so they can get that surgery, dental work, or prescription they can't afford and quickly head back. Until the late 90s when this rule came into effect, it was actually quite common for this to happen which is why it was introduced by Canada in the first place.

A true refugee is one fleeing for their lives and once in a safe country, like the US, they should not be allowed to use it simply as a base to do refugee window shopping.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

^ Exactly right..........these are NOT refugees but simply queue-jumpers, they are braking every law in the book and they damn well know it. This is what infuriates people about our refugee system when we get bogus refugees which Ottawa will still accept to be nice.

No - Ottawa is following Canadian law. You're spouting ignorance.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

^ Exactly right..........these are NOT refugees but simply queue-jumpers, they are braking every law in the book and they damn well know it. This is what infuriates people about our refugee system when we get bogus refugees which Ottawa will still accept to be nice.

These people 100% know that they are breaking the coutry's immigration/refugee laws and don't give a damn. IOW, their first act in Canada is to break the law. I say put them up for one night and then give them a one-way bus ticket back to Minneapolis. It is illegal for someone to cross at a border crossing from the USA to Canada or vice-versa looking for refugee status. These people clearly know this which is why they deliberately don't cross at a border crossing but rather in the middle of no where.

If this is allowed then we will get refugee claims from thousands in the US, even if born there, as people cross at a non-authorized entry level. They will be able to apply for refugee status and hence get free medical so they can get that surgery, dental work, or prescription they can't afford and quickly head back. Until the late 90s when this rule came into effect, it was actually quite common for this to happen which is why it was introduced by Canada in the first place.

A true refugee is one fleeing for their lives and once in a safe country, like the US, they should not be allowed to use it simply as a base to do refugee window shopping.

In my mind, they are illegal immigrants - no different than those who cross the Mexican border in the US. They may have already been illegally in the US, but two wrongs don't make a right...what about the legitimate refugees, immigrants and citizens?

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

In my mind, they are illegal immigrants - no different than those who cross the Mexican border in the US. They may have already been illegally in the US, but two wrongs don't make a right...what about the legitimate refugees, immigrants and citizens?

They have made a claim. The claim must be processed.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

In my mind, they are illegal immigrants - no different than those who cross the Mexican border in the US. They may have already been illegally in the US, but two wrongs don't make a right...what about the legitimate refugees, immigrants and citizens?

Illegal immigrant = an undocumented person living 'covertly' in a country.

The people crossing the border are not undocumented, and they're certainly not trying to be covert; If officers are not waiting at the border, it's often the asylum-seekers themselves who call the RCMP.

This isn't a new phenomenon in Canada. On average, 11 000 refugees successfully make claims within Canada. What difference is it if they arrive by car rather than by plane?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Illegal immigrant = an undocumented person living 'covertly' in a country.

The people crossing the border are not undocumented, and they're certainly not trying to be covert; If officers are not waiting at the border, it's often the asylum-seekers themselves who call the RCMP.

This isn't a new phenomenon in Canada. On average, 11 000 refugees successfully make claims within Canada. What difference is it if they arrive by car rather than by plane?

In any event, in many cases wouldn't the simple fact that you're a "refugee" (eg in a desperate, dangerous situation) preclude you from following every single procedural step and doing so in advance within the ideal timeframes?

If that weren't the case, you wouldn't be a "refugee", you'd be an "immigrant".

[Antigonish]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Illegal immigrant = an undocumented person living 'covertly' in a country.

The people crossing the border are not undocumented, and they're certainly not trying to be covert; If officers are not waiting at the border, it's often the asylum-seekers themselves who call the RCMP.

This isn't a new phenomenon in Canada. On average, 11 000 refugees successfully make claims within Canada. What difference is it if they arrive by car rather than by plane?

And the USA isn't in the middle of a civil war, it is a safe country. If they leave for Canada from a neighbouring safe country they are not refugees. They are economic migrants, and illegal. Send them all back.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by Antigonish

And the USA isn't in the middle of a civil war, it is a safe country. If they leave for Canada from a neighbouring safe country they are not refugees. They are economic migrants, and illegal. Send them all back.

No one is arguing that the US is, itself, unsafe. However, refugees - especially those from the countries targeted by the infamous executive order - do have legitimate concerns about how thorough or fair their hearing would be in the States. Without being able to access a lawyer or, in some cases, translation for the process, it is likely that they won't get a fair shake. As a consequence of that, they will likely get sent to persecution or death.

Our system here is far from perfect, but it does a much better job at accurately evaluating refugee cases.

Put yourself in the shoes of someone escaping the death in your home country because of your skin colour, sexual orientation, political views, etc. You arrive in a country where you have to argue your case in a legal system you don't know in a language you hardly speak. And if you don't manage to do that, you will get sent right back into the hands of a government which wants to kill you.
Now imagine that there's a country just across the border in which you will get the ressources to properly argue your case. I know that I'd cross that border.

[Acajack]

My view is that the current Canadian system is fair, manageable and reasonably efficient.

Of course, if we get a huge flood of people coming across the American border, then all bets are off.

[Pinus]

Originally Posted by Acajack

My view is that the current Canadian system is fair, manageable and reasonably efficient.

Of course, if we get a huge flood of people coming across the American border, then all bets are off.

Although it may not occur in the immediate future, is this a chance that we as a country really want to take? Why not be proactive and put measures in place to prevent such an occurrence instead to being reactive (as is typical human nature) and only taking action when things get out of control?

[VIce]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

In my mind, they are illegal immigrants - no different than those who cross the Mexican border in the US. They may have already been illegally in the US, but two wrongs don't make a right...what about the legitimate refugees, immigrants and citizens?

You can't just kick people out. Bureaucracy is slow, and that is frustrating, but the system of paperwork is there to protect legitimate claimants, and once they're in the system they have the right to a fair shake.

[Acajack]

So, in the reports I saw from the Quebec-NY border, it was stated that asylum seekers were brought to a government holding centre in the Montreal area pending the processing of their request.

Does anyone know if they have to remain there until a decision on their file is made? Or are they just fingerprinted and entered into the system and then released onto Canada's streets pending the hearing of their case? (In the latter case, I assume they'd have access to at least some social services, and their kids could go to school, no?)

In any event, from my recollection, the number of asylum seekers involved in crimes in Canada is fairly low. (Other than the "crime" of entering the country outside of normal immigration processes.)

This does not seem to be a significant problem for us, in spite of what some people say.

OTOH, it does seem to be more of a problem in Europe, although of course the total numbers there are much much higher than they are here.

There are bad apples in every bunch, and the bigger the bunch the more bad apples you get, generally.

Something to watch out for in case we get a surge of migrants on our borders.

[1overcosc]

Thanks to the third country agreement and relatively refugee-friendly American governments we've never really had to worry about unauthorized migration before. We've had control over pretty much every immigrant.

Now that this is no longer true we need a strategy to figure out how to move forward from here.