Winnipeg Roads & Infrastructure

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

FFFFFFFFFF sakes. Just noticed that Focus Hyundai is planning to build a dealership on Lagimodiere at Almey. Where the credit union is. What in the hell is that about? That is the dumbest location. We're doomed to have the lights on Lag.

http://clkapps.winnipeg.ca/DMIS/View...onId=&InitUrl=
Hearing #8.


It's extremely frustrating to me, this kind of shit.

Well that really pisses me off, no way in hell SCU should have been built where it is especially with the closure of Almey when the goal should have been to eliminate a set of lights at Lag. and Almey!

[esquire]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Well that really pisses me off, no way in hell SCU should have been built where it is especially with the closure of Almey when the goal should have been to eliminate a set of lights at Lag. and Almey!

"eliminate a set of lights"



what mean that?

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by vjose32

I agree, there’s way too many main roads as is that just dead end and force traffic on other roads, like McPhillips and Keewatin at Notre Dame, Hespeler at Henderson, Leila at Main, Waverly at Grant, and Nairn as well. And guess what they all have traffic issues for the most part. This only makes traffic problems worse and the only way to remedy it would be with a LOT of money and tearing up neighborhoods.

Don’t know what kind of numbskulls planned our roads but they obviously had no idea what they were doing back then.

Pre-Unicity planning was uncoordinated regarding traffic.
After Unicity, it's not that they had no clue what they were doing, it was that each successive government has either kiboshed whatever plans the previous group had or decided to simply pass the buck. Bishop Grandin's planners had saved plenty of room for interchanges but city council members decided that that land was just too good to pass up selling so some of it got sold off. That's one example but there are plenty more. Our city council has never been able to stick to a plan. If anything, that's the biggest problem with it no matter how many decades anybody wants to go back.

Chief Peguis (well, actually it's the ESP) will dead end at Regent because there's a patch of native tall-grass prairie that nobody gives a shit about. Well, apparently a few people cared enough to make an issue of it although I suspect they didn't really care about it either but rather simply found it to be a convenient excuse to play NIMBY. That's actually just fine considering we don't have the cash to build it properly anyway and it's just as well that maybe that money could be spent on improvements to other routes.

[esquire]

^ I thought it wasn't the tall grass prairie that was the issue, but rather that the City sold off the right of way south of Regent for residential development sometime around Y2K?

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by Spocket

Pre-Unicity planning was uncoordinated regarding traffic.
After Unicity, it's not that they had no clue what they were doing, it was that each successive government has either kiboshed whatever plans the previous group had or decided to simply pass the buck. Bishop Grandin's planners had saved plenty of room for interchanges but city council members decided that that land was just too good to pass up selling so some of it got sold off. That's one example but there are plenty more. Our city council has never been able to stick to a plan. If anything, that's the biggest problem with it no matter how many decades anybody wants to go back.

Chief Peguis (well, actually it's the ESP) will dead end at Regent because there's a patch of native tall-grass prairie that nobody gives a shit about. Well, apparently a few people cared enough to make an issue of it although I suspect they didn't really care about it either but rather simply found it to be a convenient excuse to play NIMBY. That's actually just fine considering we don't have the cash to build it properly anyway and it's just as well that maybe that money could be spent on improvements to other routes.

Regardless of the tall grass prairie or not, the ESP is not going to happen unless it is tunneled all the way to plessis near the Symington yards.

Probably after the Tall grass prairie reserve was implemented, the city sold off the rest of the ROW. You can tell by these clusters of houses and roads that don't quite fit in with the nearby development and were added in after the fact (along heartstone drive):

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.89026.../data=!3m1!1e3

And along with the Shady Shores development, ESP would be prohibitively expensive to expropriate all those properties, even if the city only had to tunnel under the prairie reserve.

When chief peguis will be extended east, it will branch off to connect at Plessis and also continue east to Perimeter near Gunn Rd (and beyond - Oakbank, as per the transportation master plan).

The city's inner ring road will unlikely ever be full free flowing. Plessis and Moray north of Portage are too residential that unless mass expropriation or tunneling happen these spots will have to be 50-60kmh zones

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I thought it wasn't the tall grass prairie that was the issue, but rather that the City sold off the right of way south of Regent for residential development sometime around Y2K?

They sold off the right of way because of the tall grass prairie NIMBY stuff. I guess it's one of the last pieces of prairie that have never been touched. Somehow.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by WildCake

Regardless of the tall grass prairie or not, the ESP is not going to happen unless it is tunneled all the way to plessis near the Symington yards.

Probably after the Tall grass prairie reserve was implemented, the city sold off the rest of the ROW. You can tell by these clusters of houses and roads that don't quite fit in with the nearby development and were added in after the fact (along heartstone drive):

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.89026.../data=!3m1!1e3

And along with the Shady Shores development, ESP would be prohibitively expensive to expropriate all those properties, even if the city only had to tunnel under the prairie reserve.

When chief peguis will be extended east, it will branch off to connect at Plessis and also continue east to Perimeter near Gunn Rd (and beyond - Oakbank, as per the transportation master plan).

The city's inner ring road will unlikely ever be full free flowing. Plessis and Moray north of Portage are too residential that unless mass expropriation or tunneling happen these spots will have to be 50-60kmh zones

Obviously they would never expropriate all the homes in which they just sold the land to. The plan is shot. There is no plan. They had a sliver of hope by using the old Ravelston corridor which is now closed so they could get over to Plessis corridor. Now they have to use regent to get to Plessis. It'll have to be some type of either underground or overheard route, which will never ever happen.

[optimusREIM]

I would think that an "inner ring" could function if lagimodiere qere used as the eastern leg. The west section would be substantially easier to build new, although I think that it's totally stupid that route 90 is beyond saving. Feasible but probably too expensive to be worth it tunneling would definitely be too expensive to be approved despite the fact that it would be an almost necessary project. This widening talk is all garbage and is gonna destroy a bunch of the established neighborhood.

We have consistently demonstrated here in winnipeg that we have a complete inability to see anything through to completion then once we realize we have a major problem we just sorta bury our heads in the sand and half ass some solution and pretend it's good enough.

I'm tired of pretending. We need some next level shit to get ourselves out of the 1940s

[bomberjet]

It really is sad. But it's the people that have done it to themselves. Nobody wants anything to change for some reason. Need to make some sacrifices for the good of the City. But that never happens and we're left with a disconnected mess.

Kenaston widening really isn't going to destroy the neighbourhood. It's already split. Demoing some homes would be the sacrifice that I mentioned. But it's just going to be another road with traffic lights, so why bother.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by esquire

"eliminate a set of lights"



what mean that?

[Biff]

The Tall Grass Prairie isn't an issue with the Edward Schreyer Parkway. The right of way is Bradley St and the land too the west.

[bomberjet]

The tall grass prairie was the original right of way though. Now they can connect to Regent using Bradley, which is only 80' wide corridor.

I just finished up this snazzy map in 5 mins showing the old right of way and where ESP would've gone. The city owned all of the yellow land with the red being ESP. Now it's stuck using the blue, if at all.

[esquire]

^ Thanks for the drawing. It's hilarious how the City protected that ROW for so long, and then maybe a decade before it would have gotten serious about building the route it carved it up and sold it off. Nice to see that it isn't just transit infrastructure that is singled out for botch jobs like that.

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

The tall grass prairie was the original right of way though. Now they can connect to Regent using Bradley, which is only 80' wide corridor.

I just finished up this snazzy map in 5 mins showing the old right of way and where ESP would've gone. The city owned all of the yellow land with the red being ESP. Now it's stuck using the blue, if at all.

Does anyone know a bit more about this plan? I feel like using Bradley street, having ESP dead end at Regent, and force drivers to zig zag down Regent to Plessis to continue down the Inner Ring Road is illogical for traffic flow.

I thought that with the Tall Grass Prairie in place, the Inner Ring Road would have shifted east, with Chief Peguis linking up to Plessis at it's northern terminus (near Grassie/Gunn area (by the MPI compound) and that Plessis would connect to a future Bishop Grandin Extension. If this is the case than the road Edward Schreyer Parkway would likely not exist as part of the Inner Ring Road (if at all).

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by WildCake

Does anyone know a bit more about this plan? I feel like using Bradley street, having ESP dead end at Regent, and force drivers to zig zag down Regent to Plessis to continue down the Inner Ring Road is illogical for traffic flow.

I thought that with the Tall Grass Prairie in place, the Inner Ring Road would have shifted east, with Chief Peguis linking up to Plessis at it's northern terminus (near Grassie/Gunn area (by the MPI compound) and that Plessis would connect to a future Bishop Grandin Extension. If this is the case than the road Edward Schreyer Parkway would likely not exist as part of the Inner Ring Road (if at all).

Not sure Plessis would be better solution. Its not really suited for this purpose. Far too many side streets intersecting with it. The stretch of Regent that would be used is generally pretty free flowing as the gridlock dissipates east of the Costco really.

[bomberjet]

My blue thing is purely speculation. I don't see how else anything can happen. The City will need to look at the bigger picture. Since they sold the right of way, they gave up on the plan. If anything happens, it'll dead end at Regent and be done with it.

Plessis at Devonshire is loaded with strip malls and drive thrus. I don't see how they can convert it into a freeway.

[Biff]

The thing is the city will be putting out the Inner Ring Road Study this year (2019) and it will all likely get reworked from those old plans.

My thoughts are that they should scrap the Ed Schreyer Parkway (ESP) and:
- connect the north end of Plessis to the Chief Peguis Trail.
- Upgrade Lagimodiere.
- Upgrade Bishop.
- Connect Bishop east to Hwy 1 (Fermor) around Plessis.
- Extend Bishop west up to the William Clement Parkway (WCP).
- Build the WCP.
- I really don't know what to do with WCP north of Portage. Ultimately it works best you would expropriate and carve through St James to connect Moray with Summit Rd on the west side of the airport. We know that wont happen, nor should it.
- Build the Cheif Peguis west extension.

[Winnipegger]

Originally Posted by Biff

The thing is the city will be putting out the Inner Ring Road Study this year (2019) and it will all likely get reworked from those old plans.

My thoughts are that they should scrap the Ed Schreyer Parkway (ESP) and:
- connect the north end of Plessis to the Chief Peguis Trail.
- Upgrade Lagimodiere.
- Upgrade Bishop.
- Connect Bishop east to Hwy 1 (Fermor) around Plessis.
- Extend Bishop west up to the William Clement Parkway (WCP).
- Build the WCP.
- I really don't know what to do with WCP north of Portage. Ultimately it works best you would expropriate and carve through St James to connect Moray with Summit Rd on the west side of the airport. We know that wont happen, nor should it.
- Build the Cheif Peguis west extension.

As useful as the study will be, the truth is that there literally is no money left to do any upgrades, and barely any extensions of significance.

We might see CPT extended and Keneston widened in the next 5 to 10 years if we're lucky, but anything beyond that is simply beyond what the current revenue from property tax can sustain. The City is in a massive financial pickle with the existing infrastructure deficit, and the tax base has demonstrated that they are simply unwilling to fork over any additional cash for large scale projects in the near-term, so we are stuck with what we have.

Perhaps when BRT is fully finished (or cut, depending on who wins the next election) then we might see significant infrastructure upgrades to roadways. But for now, most road funding is going straight in to potholes and repairs. I doubt we will see any fancy interchanges within city limits any time soon.

[Kronos]

Originally Posted by cheswick

Not sure Plessis would be better solution. Its not really suited for this purpose. Far too many side streets intersecting with it. The stretch of Regent that would be used is generally pretty free flowing as the gridlock dissipates east of the Costco really.

No longer the case as Regent and Plessis during rush hour is becoming more and more busy

[Biff]

Bottom line is that we can give up on there being an eastern leg to the inner ring road in the Plessis area. That ship sailed when the city sold off all the right of ways. There is no viable way through that area now.....which I am fine with as all the focus should be on Lagimodiere.