The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by stu_pendousmat2

Just for fun I made a little (crappy) diagram and pulled up some #s to make a little list (I love lists lol) depicting the retail market area for each of the cities listed.




Halifax

Metro - approx 400,000
Retail Pull - approx 680,000

Moncton

Metro - approx 130,000
Retail Pull - approx 445,000

St. Johns

Metro - approx 175,000
Retail Pull - approx 300,000

Cape Breton Regional Municipality

Metro - approx 110,000
Retail Pull - approx 250,000

Saint John

Metro - approx 130,000
Retail Pull - approx 165,000

As always I would love to be corrected on anything here

I see you have Truro lumped into the Moncton retail pull. I really don't think so.... Halifax has an an enormous retail pull on Truro. It's only a 45 minutes to an hours drive to the largest retail area in the Martitimes (metro Halifax) My parents live in Truro and they never go to Moncton to shop but come to Halifax frequently to shop.

[kirjtc2]

I've seen a map from about 15-20 years ago that showed retail trade areas in the Maritimes as defined by a series of math equations. It was in a Maritime thematic atlas that a prof at St. Mary's put out. When I get home I'll try and find it...

JPK

[kirjtc2]

Three stories on the West Side seperation issue in today's Telegraph. Of course, the links are all subscription-only and there's nothing on either CBC or 88.9's sites.

* The minister of local government says seperation is "a long shot at best". They would need a petition from local residents, a feasibility study, and approval from cabinet.
* A Mount A prof suggests a ward system for Saint John as a way to ease relations. Never mind that the mayor and four councillors live on the west side now...
* Moosehead Breweries seems to support the idea and is considering printing T-shirts that say "No taxation without fermentation".

[nero1979]

Hey folks, I am new to this site and its a great forum. I usually just read other peoples comments and stuff, but I just had to put this comment in and see what other peoples reaction may be. "Irving's new refinery plan stinks: Moncton councillor" this was reported on the cbc's website. I know that this forum is more or less for "Projects and developements for Saint John" but it kind of bugs me that a councillor from another city is making statements that has nothing to do with his city. I feel his belief is fine, but making those comments out loud for the public to hear is wrong when it has nothing do to with his city. Any comments ??

Here is the link for anybody who wishes to read it.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswi...tonirving.html

cheers

[ErickMontreal]

Originally Posted by nero1979

Hey folks, I am new to this site and its a great forum. I usually just read other peoples comments and stuff, but I just had to put this comment in and see what other peoples reaction may be. "Irving's new refinery plan stinks: Moncton councillor" this was reported on the cbc's website. I know that this forum is more or less for "Projects and developements for Saint John" but it kind of bugs me that a councillor from another city is making statements that has nothing to do with his city. I feel his belief is fine, but making those comments out loud for the public to hear is wrong when it has nothing do to with his city. Any comments ??

Here is the link for anybody who wishes to read it.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswi...tonirving.html

cheers

In fact, its concern is fine but he should stay away from this debate. New Irving project could be huge economic engine for SJ and whole New-Brundwick while in the other hand its could be a environnemental disaster. How would you want attracting people in town after that? The city will likely become the third industrial concentation out Alberta. Saint John has to deal with this situation but i wonder how it will do that.

I am really again tax break deliver by the city to Irving. A small village near Rivière-du-Loup (QC) will get a LNG terminal. The city will receive 5.5 millions per years in tax. They will get many other fiscal advantages from LNG-Canada.

SJ will receive 500,000$.

[kirjtc2]

Here's a rough and crude reproduction of that map I was talking about. The research was in 1987, but I doubt much would have changed since then...

[Haliguy]

That looks about right. It may have changed a bit by the fact some centres may have more pull on the others such as Halifax and Moncton but basically thats about right.

[mmmatt]

Originally Posted by billy1

Moncton is not a retail pull for PEI. Sure people from PEI shop in Moncton at some time however it should not be included in the retail area. People from PEI shop in Halifax more so than Moncton. So I think you can remove 145,000 from your Moncton retail area.

People from PEI shop in Charlottetown as their main centre.

Good point, but I was talking about "where people go for a shopping trip" more so than thier day to day shopping. Because obviously not everybody in PEI comes to moncton every day to shop, but most do come every once in a while.

I would not say PEIers shop in Halifax more than Moncton, as it takes about an hour to get to Moncton from the island and about 3 to get to Halifax, and really I dont see a reason for going to Halifax instaed of Moncton, what exactly do they have there in terms of retail that we dont have in Moncton, besides locally owned stores that is....I would say MEC is the only one I am firmiliar with as a draw for Monctonians to Halifax, but hopefully that sitiuation will be resolved with the new Mapelton Power Center big box development.

[mmmatt]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

That looks about right. It may have changed a bit by the fact some centres may have more pull on the others such as Halifax and Moncton but basically thats about right.

Yes I agree, Halifax and Moncton have proven themselves as retail centers time and time again since '87 (the year I was born btw lol) so I would say the draw would be a bit more for them now, but not a huge ammount.

That map is great though, it shows more of the "day to day" shopping style though, as opposed to my "shopping trip" style...this map is obviously more concise, and therefore wins out in my books

[mmmatt]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

I see you have Truro lumped into the Moncton retail pull. I really don't think so.... Halifax has an an enormous retail pull on Truro. It's only a 45 minutes to an hours drive to the largest retail area in the Martitimes (metro Halifax) My parents live in Truro and they never go to Moncton to shop but come to Halifax frequently to shop.

Yes I completely agree, I in fact included the truro area in with my Halifax calculations, as I said this map is kinda crude lol.

[billy1]

Originally Posted by stu_pendousmat2

Good point, but I was talking about "where people go for a shopping trip" more so than thier day to day shopping. Because obviously not everybody in PEI comes to moncton every day to shop, but most do come every once in a while.

I would not say PEIers shop in Halifax more than Moncton, as it takes about an hour to get to Moncton from the island and about 3 to get to Halifax, and really I dont see a reason for going to Halifax instaed of Moncton, what exactly do they have there in terms of retail that we dont have in Moncton, besides locally owned stores that is....I would say MEC is the only one I am firmiliar with as a draw for Monctonians to Halifax, but hopefully that sitiuation will be resolved with the new Mapelton Power Center big box development.

I would say they shop in Halifax more than Moncton, I make this assumption because I see and here what happens (I live here!). Most people in PEI shop in Charlottetown not Moncton, in PEI you do not pay PST on clothing or footwear, so PEI is not in Monctons retail trade area, they are in the Charlottetown retail trade area. As far as "not everybody in PEI comes to moncton every day to shop, but most do come every once in a while." statement, no one in my family has been to Moncton to shop in the last couple of years that I am aware of however they have been to Halifax.

[kirjtc2]

I did some math using the same equations in the atlas...if just Moncton and Halifax were considered, PEI would be split in two, with Charlottetown and the rest of the province east of Hunter River or so going to Halifax, and the western part going to Moncton.

On the mainland, the line would be drawn from Parrsboro to Oxford to Pugwash.

Now that I think about it, I have some anecdotal evidence (and don't ask me how the hell I remember this) to support what billy1 is saying. I was in Charlottetown on vacation when I was a little kid and we stopped inside a little Sears store - it was one of the small furniture/appliance dealer stores. Thinking it was a full department store, my grandparents asked "is this the whole store?" They said yes, and for a full department store "we have to go to Halifax".

[ErickMontreal]

There are more than shopping. Basically, no offence to Moncton but I am aware there is more things to do in Halifax than Moncton. When you go away you can to benefit from visit or something that a city like Halifax can offer.

Moncton could be a destination for SJ, Fredericton and Bathust as well, likely not for day to day shopping but for holiday shopping for example.

[kirjtc2]

Originally Posted by nero1979

Hey folks, I am new to this site and its a great forum. I usually just read other peoples comments and stuff, but I just had to put this comment in and see what other peoples reaction may be. "Irving's new refinery plan stinks: Moncton councillor" this was reported on the cbc's website. I know that this forum is more or less for "Projects and developements for Saint John" but it kind of bugs me that a councillor from another city is making statements that has nothing to do with his city. I feel his belief is fine, but making those comments out loud for the public to hear is wrong when it has nothing do to with his city. Any comments ??

Here is the link for anybody who wishes to read it.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswi...tonirving.html

cheers

Sounds typical. If the refinery were in Moncton I doubt he'd be saying this.

I get this vibe from the comments like this from Moncton, that the powers that be there not only want to get a load of development for themselves, but destroy the hopes of Saint John, Fredericton and even Halifax in the process. It's bad for regional cooperation.

[billy1]

Originally Posted by kirjtc2

I did some math using the same equations in the atlas...if just Moncton and Halifax were considered, PEI would be split in two, with Charlottetown and the rest of the province east of Hunter River or so going to Halifax, and the western part going to Moncton.

On the mainland, the line would be drawn from Parrsboro to Oxford to Pugwash.

Now that I think about it, I have some anecdotal evidence (and don't ask me how the hell I remember this) to support what billy1 is saying. I was in Charlottetown on vacation when I was a little kid and we stopped inside a little Sears store - it was one of the small furniture/appliance dealer stores. Thinking it was a full department store, my grandparents asked "is this the whole store?" They said yes, and for a full department store "we have to go to Halifax".

There is a new 135,000 sq ft Sears in the West Royalty Power Centre. It opened about 3-4 yrs ago.

[mmmatt]

Originally Posted by kirjtc2

Sounds typical. If the refinery were in Moncton I doubt he'd be saying this.

The refinery would never be built in Moncton, because Irving does not have Moncton by the balls, as it does for Saint John. Sorry to say it but its true, they can basically do whatever they want in that city and get away with it, I reference the LNG terminal land tax fiasco, and also the massive natural gas pipeline proposed to be built from it, which intends to run right through downtown! but did the SJ government put up a fight? no, not after Irving bribed them with a little money. We see examples of this all the time and its really sad.

[mmmatt]

I made a little list that reflects this new map:


LEGEND

M = Metro
DRM = Direct Retail Market
R = Rate (the ratio of shoppers to metro residents)


1) Fredericton

M - 85,000
DRM - 135,000
R - 1.58

2) Moncton

M - 130,000
DRM - 190,000
R - 1.46

3) Cape Breton Regional Municipality

M - 110,000
DRM - 150,000
R - 1.36

=4) Halifax

M - 400,000
DRM - 450,000
R - 1.15

=4) Saint John

Metro - 130,000
Direct Retail Market - approx 150,000
R - 1.15



By the way just in case anyone was wondering I get these numbers from the most current county populations, so for example in Saint John I took the population of SJ County + Kings County - 15,000 for Sussex area (shops in Sussex) + Queens County - 5,000 for Minto area (shops in Fredericton) + Charlotte County = 150,000...and I did the same process for each other city listed.

[ErickMontreal]

Originally Posted by kirjtc2

Sounds typical. If the refinery were in Moncton I doubt he'd be saying this.

I get this vibe from the comments like this from Moncton, that the powers that be there not only want to get a load of development for themselves, but destroy the hopes of Saint John, Fredericton and even Halifax in the process. It's bad for regional cooperation.

I do not really think Halifax are affected by Moncton comments, both cities are not in the same league in my mind. Halifax is the financial and law center east of Quebec and even east of Montreal in some issues

[ErickMontreal]

Originally Posted by stu_pendousmat2

The refinery would never be built in Moncton, because Irving does not have Moncton by the balls, as it does for Saint John. Sorry to say it but its true, they can basically do whatever they want in that city and get away with it, I reference the LNG terminal land tax fiasco, and also the massive natural gas pipeline proposed to be built from it, which intends to run right through downtown! but did the SJ government put up a fight? no, not after Irving bribed them with a little money. We see examples of this all the time and its really sad.

I like SJ but i`m agree with you like I said above

"I am really again tax break deliver by the city to Irving. A small village near Rivière-du-Loup (QC) will get a LNG terminal. The city will receive 5.5 millions per years in tax. They will get many other fiscal advantages from LNG-Canada."

SJ will receive 500,000$.
http://www.energiecacouna.ca/en/project.html

Its a joke...

[Smevo]

No offense to Monctonians, but the powers that be in Moncton have been acting like it was the largest city in the province for the past 8-10 years or so, and it probably just past Saint John in this year's census. There seems to be a growing attitude among Moncton city politicians and planning departments of superiority and they seem to want to leave every other city in the area in their dust. That said, my uncle lives in Riverview and I've always viewed Moncton as a nice place, just don't agree with some of the attitudes of the political bodies in Moncton.