Metro Vancouver Road Infrastructure Discussion

[SpongeG]

January 6, 2011

Construction starts on transit improvement on Highway 99 in Metro Vancouver

A new northbound shoulder bus lane is being built between the King George Highway and Highway 91 in Metro Vancouver to improve transit service and reduce traffic congestion for commuters travelling from White Rock and Surrey. The project is a result of a partnership between the Government of Canada and the province.

"The Government of Canada is proud to work with our provincial partners on infrastructure projects that will create jobs, stimulate the economy,and improve highway safety for residents and visitors alike," said Russ Hiebert, Member of Parliament for South Surrey-White Rock-Cloverdale, on behalf of the Honourable Chuck Strahl, Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities. "This highway improvement project will go a long way toward easing traffic congestion and improving commuting times across metro Vancouver."

"Transit expansion is happening at a critical time in Metro Vancouver," said Transportation and Infrastructure Minister Shirley Bond. "At the rate the region is growing, we are investing in key projects to get people out of their cars and into transit. More people using transit will help their communities become healthier places to live, work and play."

The new six-kilometre northbound shoulder bus lane will open this spring.

The Province is investing $110 million for transit and road improvements on Highway 99. Improvements include 17 kilometres of separate shoulder bus lanes. A shoulder bus lane from Westminster Highway to Bridgeport Road is now open. Work continues to add more lanes north and south of the George Massey tunnel in both directions.

...

http://www.journalofcommerce.com/article/id42315/

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by Phusion

Further proof a HWY 99 over-haul is not in the cards. I guess its good news for the hand full of people that take the bus from South Surrey and Ladner to Bridgeport station. What an absolute joke. HWY 99 has become the most confusing, atrocious looking stretch of highway I've ever seen. And its about to get worse. Keep the piece-meal improvements coming

Nah, they can piecemeal the next lane on eventually..

Absolutely agree about the Joke. What a waste of money. Honestly.

[agrant]

Originally Posted by Phusion

Further proof a HWY 99 over-haul is not in the cards. I guess its good news for the hand full of people that take the bus from South Surrey and Ladner to Bridgeport station. What an absolute joke. HWY 99 has become the most confusing, atrocious looking stretch of highway I've ever seen. And its about to get worse. Keep the piece-meal improvements coming

Confusing??? I've never had any problems getting to where I want to go. The signage is as good as any. The big issue for me is the George Massey Tunnel - there must be about 5 or 6 lanes of traffic going into one anytime I drive through. There's really no point in doing major work until something changes there. And the money is being spent elsewhere by the looks of it.

Regarding the jersey barriers... could another reason we see them used so often here be that our roads are in a state of change? They are a temporary solution that can easily be removed or moved.

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by Phusion

Further proof a HWY 99 over-haul is not in the cards.

The H-99 project "Gateway 2" is projected to come to fruition in the 2025 - 2030 time frame. The gravel base for the bus lane will likely be utilized as part of that future expansion.

Regarding BC's concrete median barriers, they'd be fine if those "holes" were removed - not very aesthetically pleasing. Even the ON 400-series has pre-fab barriers in some places but they still look great.

[adrianroam95]

Idiots. You can't just pave 5 ft each side of the freeway to add an additional lane that's actually a widened shoulder, and then call it an improvement project.

And to add on, we can't just mindlessly add more lanes to each side of the 99, without doing anything to the Massey Tunnel. It doesn't take an smart person to understand that. We've done this and that, adding a bus lane here and there, and widening stretches by a lane or two, but we're done NOTHING to the Massey Tunnel. Heck, it's been the exact same since we built it in the 1950's; it's the bottleneck that makes the highway such a hassle to drive on during rush hour. No tiny lil "improvement" project's going to fix that.

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by Phusion

What does the gateway 2 project involve? I've heard of it but I don't know the specs. Why on earth would they wait so long to build it too? Can you imagine HWY 99 in 5 years...

Likely:

1. An 8 - 10 lane bridge to replace the George Massey Tunnel;
2. Rebuild Oak Street Bridge (maybe even Knight St. Bridge expansion);
3. ~6 + HOV lanes to near US border;
4. ~8 lanes north of GMT;
4. Rebuild most interchanges;
5. Possibly also Southern Fwy connecting Hwys 1 & 99 (according to "H-99" engineering study)

$billions$ involved and higher priorities elsewhere during interim.

[agrant]

Originally Posted by Phusion

What does the gateway 2 project involve? I've heard of it but I don't know the specs. Why on earth would they wait so long to build it too? Can you imagine HWY 99 in 5 years...

I think more and more people will decide to use the Alex Fraser bridge and drive around the tunnel.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Phusion

I don't know how much more of driving on our highways I can take, it makes me so sad

Take Skytrain - best views in the city!

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by adrianroam95

Idiots. You can't just pave 5 ft each side of the freeway to add an additional lane that's actually a widened shoulder, and then call it an improvement project.

And to add on, we can't just mindlessly add more lanes to each side of the 99, without doing anything to the Massey Tunnel. It doesn't take an smart person to understand that. We've done this and that, adding a bus lane here and there, and widening stretches by a lane or two, but we're done NOTHING to the Massey Tunnel. Heck, it's been the exact same since we built it in the 1950's; it's the bottleneck that makes the highway such a hassle to drive on during rush hour. No tiny lil "improvement" project's going to fix that.

But expanding the tunnel will just push the bottleneck to Oak St Bridge. Does the province have the power to force a wider bridge on the City of Vancouver?

[Millennium2002]

Originally Posted by whatnext

But expanding the tunnel will just push the bottleneck to Oak St Bridge. Does the province have the power to force a wider bridge on the City of Vancouver?

I thought provincial jurisdiction always trumped city jurisdiction... case in point... the Cassair Tunnel is getting wider lanes despite the city's opposition and the bylaw that prevents an increase in traffic capacity.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

I thought provincial jurisdiction always trumped city jurisdiction... case in point... the Cassair Tunnel is getting wider lanes despite the city's opposition and the bylaw that prevents an increase in traffic capacity.

Cassiar Tunnel was built with room for 6 lanes. All that's going in there is new paint. to accommodate the 3rd lane.

How's the Ironworkers bridge looking in terms of age? When that's going to be due for a major repair and/or replacement?

[wrenegade]

I was under the impression that because of the Vancouver Charter the Province can't force the CoV to do anything they don't want to do. My guess is the Oak street bridge will be a bottleneck for the foreseeable future.

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by awvan

I was under the impression that because of the Vancouver Charter the Province can't force the CoV to do anything they don't want to do. My guess is the Oak street bridge will be a bottleneck for the foreseeable future.

MoT has jurisdiction right up to 71st Ave. The Oak Street Bridge would be rebuilt as part of a "systems-wide" upgrade of Hwy 99 and would be upgraded to modern design standards with an 8-lane cross-section.

That would include a NB drop-off lane at the Marine Dr. exit - leaving 6-lanes to meet up with the existing 6-lane cross-section of Oak St. No biggy there.

Frankly, it's no different than MoT currently upgrading the Grandview Hwy., between Boundary and Hwy 1, from 4-lanes to 6-lanes to meet up with the 6-lane cross-section of Grandview Hwy. on the Vancouver side. Again, that's also against the policy of the CoV.

The CoV is a creature of the provincial government and MoT looks at the region's requirements, not some irrelevant policy of the CoV.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by whatnext

But expanding the tunnel will just push the bottleneck to Oak St Bridge. Does the province have the power to force a wider bridge on the City of Vancouver?

It is up in the air as to what the H99 project will entail:

- wider/replaced Massey tunnel, vs. a new crossing elsewhere (e.g. SFPR to Boundary Road)
- wider/replaced Oak St. bridge, vs. a new crossing elsewhere (e.g. Richmond to Boundary Road)

The existence of the SFPR makes virtually any alignment feasible. It is not really about Massey tunnel.

The province can write any law they like to impose a highway/bridge on City of Vancouver (or Richmond or Delta). The province could bulldoze a freeway through Vancouver tomorrow if they wanted. They could also unilaterally decree all arterial roads in Vancouver be expanded to 4+4 lanes if they wanted. Or, more realistically, they could turn Boundary Road into a provincial route and attach a river crossing to it.

[Zassk]

In other news, the Nelson interchange at the Hwy 91 S-curve is well underway. It is in a similar state as the Grandview HOV overpasses on Hwy 1, and will soon exceed those. Girders have been in place over the highway for several weeks, and the approaches are being sculpted now. It looks on track to finish partway through 2011.

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

MoT has jurisdiction right up to 71st Ave. The Oak Street Bridge would be rebuilt as part of a "systems-wide" upgrade of Hwy 99 and would be upgraded to modern design standards with an 8-lane cross-section.

That would include a NB drop-off lane at the Marine Dr. exit - leaving 6-lanes to meet up with the existing 6-lane cross-section of Oak St. No biggy there.

Frankly, it's no different than MoT currently upgrading the Grandview Hwy., between Boundary and Hwy 1, from 4-lanes to 6-lanes to meet up with the 6-lane cross-section of Grandview Hwy. on the Vancouver side. Again, that's also against the policy of the CoV.

The CoV is a creature of the provincial government and MoT looks at the region's requirements, not some irrelevant policy of the CoV.

I would much prefer that the new bridge connect both Oak & Granville - via a series of ramps like the ones at Arthur Laing (that could work in conjunction with those also) to split up the lanes between the two roads. This'd make it a bit easier on local roads such as 71st and 49th, because the actual Highway 99 route switches from Oak to Granville and the majority of traffic goes in that direction to follow the Granville St. bridge.

EDIT: What the heck is with the above-- [Reported]

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by awvan

I was under the impression that because of the Vancouver Charter the Province can't force the CoV to do anything they don't want to do. My guess is the Oak street bridge will be a bottleneck for the foreseeable future.

I think you're right on.
In fact, Oak Street itself presents a dilemma. It is too built up to widen it, so it has to stay as is.
More broadly, getting from anywhere SOF to downtown presents a problem, because the city of Vancouver stands in the way. No, I'm not being sarcastic.
I mean that whether you focus on the principal arteries leading from SOF into Vancouver: Granville, Oak, Cambie, or Clark, there is the enormous task of figuring out how to handle the north-south traffic flow.
What can be done? Turn Cambie into an expressway? Not bloody likely. Clark Drive? It's already at capacity and cannot be widened. Ditto Granville.

I know this is out of the question for $$$ reasons, and because most people seem averse to them, but an underground expressway collecting traffic off HWY 99 and taking it up to central / downtown seems to be one solution (although it will never happen).

Most people would reject the idea anyway, and it's too expensive, but, as the song goes ...
"Somethin's gotta give, somethin's gotta give, somethin's gotta giiiiiiiive. *pop-pop-pop*"


But what? And how? I hope forum members can come up with ideas.

[SpongeG]

i think there should be a new bridge that hooks up 91 with boundary road/marine way in burnaby that would i think take off some pressure and people from the south wanting to get to the north shore or whistler etc have a much easier way to do so as boundary joins hwy 1

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I think you're right on.
In fact, Oak Street itself presents a dilemma. It is too built up to widen it, so it has to stay as is.
More broadly, getting from anywhere SOF to downtown presents a problem, because the city of Vancouver stands in the way. No, I'm not being sarcastic.
I mean that whether you focus on the principal arteries leading from SOF into Vancouver: Granville, Oak, Cambie, or Clark, there is the enormous task of figuring out how to handle the north-south traffic flow.
What can be done? Turn Cambie into an expressway? Not bloody likely. Clark Drive? It's already at capacity and cannot be widened. Ditto Granville.

I know this is out of the question for $$$ reasons, and because most people seem averse to them, but an underground expressway collecting traffic off HWY 99 and taking it up to central / downtown seems to be one solution (although it will never happen).

Most people would reject the idea anyway, and it's too expensive, but, as the song goes ...
"Somethin's gotta give, somethin's gotta give, somethin's gotta giiiiiiiive. *pop-pop-pop*"


But what? And how? I hope forum members can come up with ideas.

How about something Just A Bit Too Radical:

make Oak St one-way Northbound from Fraser River to Downtown;
make Granville St one-way Southbound from False Creek to Fraser River.

Now we need to figure out how to connect Granville / Marine Dr to Highway 99, and how to connect Oak / Broadway to Downtown.

Once that is accomplished, no more traffic problems.

[adrianroam95]

lolololol don't laugh at this. i posted this edit done with paint on another thread awhile back.
RED: southbound
BLUE: northbound
ORANGE: arterials


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Originally Posted by jsbertram

How about something Just A Bit Too Radical:

make Oak St one-way Northbound from Fraser River to Downtown;
make Granville St one-way Southbound from False Creek to Fraser River.

Now we need to figure out how to connect Granville / Marine Dr to Highway 99, and how to connect Oak / Broadway to Downtown.

Once that is accomplished, no more traffic problems.